UND Football Strength & Conditioning

[UNDBIZ]

18 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Just stop. Where do these comments even come from? 

From SIOUXFAN97.

[Ozzie82]

I have no idea if our S+C program has anything to do with our injuries or if it's bad luck. I also know that there are different S+C philosophies and trainers are passionate about their own methods and that there are many ways to skin a cat.

 

What I do know is that a football specific S+C trainer here in the Twin Cities - who worked for the Vikings for years - trains his athletes differently than Bakkol and does not approve of the training done at UND. I don't have a ton a specifics but I do know that the former Vikings trainer does not believe in squats and trains athletes specific to their positions - and both of these contrast with UND's method. Defensive backs are given weight programs different than offensive linemen and different than punters. He also said that many D1 schools do not squat because of the knee stress and when the NFL draft combine is approaching the players go back to it because it's one of the metrics used at the combine. After that the Vikes don't squat, at least when he was there (enter Vikings ineptitude joke here).

[geaux_sioux]

3 minutes ago, Ozzie82 said:

I have no idea if our S+C program has anything to do with our injuries or if it's bad luck. I also know that there are different S+C philosophies and trainers are passionate about their own methods and that there are many ways to skin a cat.

 

What I do know is that a football specific S+C trainer here in the Twin Cities - who worked for the Vikings for years - trains his athletes differently than Bakkol and does not approve of the training done at UND. I don't have a ton a specifics but I do know that the former Vikings trainer does not believe in squats and trains athletes specific to their positions - and both of these contrast with UND's method. Defensive backs are given weight programs different than offensive linemen and different than punters. He also said that many D1 schools do not squat because of the knee stress and when the NFL draft combine is approaching the players go back to it because it's one of the metrics used at the combine. After that the Vikes don't squat, at least when he was there (enter Vikings ineptitude joke here).

They test back squat at the combine?

[Ozzie82]

I don't know.

[NDSU grad]

5 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

They test back squat at the combine?

I don't believe so. 

[Ozzie82]

Yeah, I looked at it appears they don't. Looks like I didn't remember that part of the exchange correctly. So scratch that. But the philosophical differences between the two training methods remain.

[SWSiouxMN]

12 hours ago, gundy1124 said:

I don't know about that. 

1. Who is our super stud WR?  That's not on Freund.  McKinnon reportedly could run past Holm, but of course, injured.

2. WR production goes as the OC goes.

3. Why isn't Fruend the QB coach anyway.

4. Deep balls......not good.

Wasn't he at one time during the Muss days?

[geaux_sioux]

17 minutes ago, Ozzie82 said:

Yeah, I looked at it appears they don't. Looks like I didn't remember that part of the exchange correctly. So scratch that. But the philosophical differences between the two training methods remain.

One thing to keep in mind is the needs and abilities of an NFL player and a college player. NFL trainers aren't taking guys straight out of Highschool and building them into men. They're working with more of a finished product and trying to keep wear and tear to a minimum while maintaining instead of gaining.

[Bison06]

Strength and conditioning has changed a lot in the last 20 years. Changed from mass gains to explosiveness. Strength has a ton of value on the football field, but not nearly as valuable as power.

I have no doubt that UND’s S and C team is training your athletes in a way that is up to speed with that change in philosophy.

 

[homer]

We were physically beat up in every game we have played this year.  

Physically when you take a pounding over and over, injuries are going to happen.  

[geaux_sioux]

18 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Strength and conditioning has changed a lot in the last 20 years. Changed from mass gains to explosiveness. Strength has a ton of value on the football field, but not nearly as valuable as power.

I have no doubt that UND’s S and C team is training your athletes in a way that is up to speed with that change in philosophy.

 

It's an extremely inexact science where results are nearly impossible to prove as valid. The workouts my team did vs what they did in the 90s were very different. Lots of kettle bells and body weight exercises (plus weight vests if you're not a puss) but still plenty of Olympic lifts.

[Bison06]

Just now, geaux_sioux said:

It's an extremely inexact science where results are nearly impossible to prove as valid. The workouts my team did vs what they did in the 90s were very different. Lots of kettle bells and body weight exercises (plus weight vests if you're not a puss) but still plenty of Olympic lifts.

Of the hundreds of changes that have become best practices in S and C that could be mentioned here, one of the largest that I’ve seen across all athlete specific programs is a higher emphasis on unilateral training. Makes a ton of sense as the physical load on the body in an athletic setting is rarely symmetrical. Kettlebells have sort of made a comeback in the last ten years too, so that’s interesting that they were big when you played.

[gundy1124]

1 minute ago, Bison06 said:

Of the hundreds of changes that have become best practices in S and C that could be mentioned here, one of the largest that I’ve seen across all athlete specific programs is a higher emphasis on unilateral training. Makes a ton of sense as the physical load on the body in an athletic setting is rarely symmetrical. Kettlebells have sort of made a comeback in the last ten years too, so that’s interesting that they were big when you played.

What does the Dynasty Gym do in Fargo?  Isn't that 2 fairly recent SU players?  I would put some value into their training.

[Bison06]

3 minutes ago, gundy1124 said:

What does the Dynasty Gym do in Fargo?  Isn't that 2 fairly recent SU players?  I would put some value into their training.

I’m not familiar with their particular methods for training, but would imagine it is similar to what they experienced while at NDSU. I believe it’s Cole Jirik and Christian Dudzik running that place. Given how each of those dudes played, I would imagine speed work is something they know a lot about.

[Ozzie82]

1 hour ago, geaux_sioux said:

One thing to keep in mind is the needs and abilities of an NFL player and a college player. NFL trainers aren't taking guys straight out of Highschool and building them into men. They're working with more of a finished product and trying to keep wear and tear to a minimum while maintaining instead of gaining.

The trainer I talked to would disagree with you. Again there are more than one way to skin a cat but he'd disagree.

[Bison06]

1 minute ago, Ozzie82 said:

The trainer I talked to would disagree with you. Again there are more than one way to skin a cat but he'd disagree.

Another thing to keep in mind is it’s rare for NFL athletes to not seek out their own trainers based on their perceived needs. College athletes all work with the same trainer with that trainer working hard to have each position group having a position specific program with some “personalization” built in. In the NFL, the players less often work out as a team even during the season. So the trainer you know may be the type who players seek out if they need strength gains, while they would go to someone else if they had speed needs or injury prevention needs as an example. I know of at least 3 gyms in the Eden Prairie area where Vikings players workout there regularly and all of them have very different training philosophies.

[iramurphy]

  To assume the injuries are due to something missing in our strength and conditioning would be a mistake.  For example, about 70% of all ACL injuries are non contact injuries. There are multiple factors as to how and why that is the case. One would need to look at each individual and then the situation and mechanism of injury.  Some of you folks seem to forget that only last year some were complimenting our strength and conditioning program for how they had helped turn the program around.  I believe the modern day philosophy of "if we don't get what we want, find someone to blame" has been applied  here.  The situation this fall is a result of a number of factors, many outside of the control of coaches and players.  I believe most of these injuries fall into that category. Sometimes stuff happens.  There is no reason to fire someone because of this years injuries.  I am not saying that I know enough about our strength and conditioning to comment other than it isn't fair for us as a bunch of rubes to start blaming.

[gundy1124]

27 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

  To assume the injuries are due to something missing in our strength and conditioning would be a mistake.  For example, about 70% of all ACL injuries are non contact injuries. There are multiple factors as to how and why that is the case. One would need to look at each individual and then the situation and mechanism of injury.  Some of you folks seem to forget that only last year some were complimenting our strength and conditioning program for how they had helped turn the program around.  I believe the modern day philosophy of "if we don't get what we want, find someone to blame" has been applied  here.  The situation this fall is a result of a number of factors, many outside of the control of coaches and players.  I believe most of these injuries fall into that category. Sometimes stuff happens.  There is no reason to fire someone because of this years injuries.  I am not saying that I know enough about our strength and conditioning to comment other than it isn't fair for us as a bunch of rubes to start blaming.

Put me in the category of not blaming or pointing fingers.  But I am intrigued by the discussion of Olympic Lifts vrs. Training Specific.  And, should training be more position specific?

[SIOUXFAN97]

16 hours ago, gundy1124 said:

Not really.  Each coach has an area.  I assume Fruend has a Wisconsin area and with his relationships in that area has to identify all position players that could perform at DI level, may or may not include a WR.  

I think the HC and recruiting coordinator, and all coaches really have input at year end on who and what the team needs.

 

but once a kid has been id'd i'm assuming they would send the position coach to watch a game or two and then recommend whethr or not that kid should get a scholly...

[Kab]

Could be a lot of other causes of non contact injuries,

some antibiotics can cause tendons to rupture, some cholesterol medicines harm muscles and tendons 

who knows  what some of the protein powders and other things athletes take do to their bodies

 

[UNDColorado]

12 minutes ago, Kab said:

Could be a lot of other causes of non contact injuries,

some antibiotics can cause tendons to rupture, some cholesterol medicines harm muscles and tendons 

who knows  what some of the protein powders and other things athletes take do to their bodies

 

If an 18-22 year old man needs cholesterol medication they probably shouldn't be on the team in the first place 

[Siouxperman8]

2 hours ago, gundy1124 said:

Put me in the category of not blaming or pointing fingers.  But I am intrigued by the discussion of Olympic Lifts vrs. Training Specific.  And, should training be more position specific?

We did have a discussion about this last year or the year before on here.   One of the guys I played with who played some in the CFL said he was shocked that UND didn't do more position specific stuff.   That philosophy was roundly debunked on this forum at that time.

I agree that the injuries aren't due to the S&C program but am still surprised that OL are doing the same program as CBs - if that is true.

[gundy1124]

1 hour ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

but once a kid has been id'd i'm assuming they would send the position coach to watch a game or two and then recommend whethr or not that kid should get a scholly...

Sure - but what's the stat on signee's, 80% are at the camps?  So all coaches get a look at most guys.

[gundy1124]

1 minute ago, Siouxperman8 said:

We did have a discussion about this last year or the year before on here.   One of the guys I played with who played some in the CFL said he was shocked that UND didn't do more position specific stuff.   That philosophy was roundly debunked on this forum at that time.

I agree that the injuries aren't due to the S&C program but am still surprised that OL are doing the same program as CBs - if that is true.

Part of me wonders for my own kids coming thru the ranks over the next 20 years!!!

[UND-FB-FAN]

19 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

And if we're talking statistics, your sample size would be the total roster and injuries would be a dependent variable.

Ha

So what's your independent variable? 

Technically it depends on your setup. What you're describing is a single sample test, such as a Z-Test. T-test would compare injured vs non-injured but would require adequate size of each. This year, such size exists. 

I digress.