UND to cut women's hockey

[bang]

I would like to point out one thing here. I had friends on the team when UND dropped the wrestling program in the late 90's. Wrestling was cut for the simple reason that there was too many male athletes by a compared ratio to females. The budget if I remember right was $70,000. The coach was considered part time no benefits and made around $25,000. The wrestling team wasn't asking for equal budgets to other sports or equal exposure to the other sports just the opportunity to compete. The program was well aware of its fiscal restraints and operated within its means. 

The women's team might have done them selves a huge favor had they recognized the economic burden they were putting on the university. This I know falls on the AD as well. Thier total compensation for their coaching staff was $424,000. Would cutting that in half saved the program? Maybe not but you should be atleast attempting to pull the bottom line up. 

With all this said the attention is going to women's hockey and from the information I've received the real victim here is the swimming and diving programs. 

In short what I'm saying is if it weren't for title 9 we'd still have wrestling and probably swimming and diving at UND. Also if it weren't for the massive budget salaries etc. Women's hockey still might be around. 

[shep]

On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 7:22 AM, UND-FB-FAN said:

You may want to expand on what you're saying (i.e., do you agree with these potential biases or are you now in understanding of these potential biases).

You may be trying to crank out a negative response from some, or perhaps I just misunderstood your post, but I'm a bit concerned about the potential lack of understanding of DI athletics from a national perspective. I fear the DII mindset hasn't left as many people as I would hope it had by now. 

A political, and subsequently educational and collegiate athletics, issue that has plagued the region and state of North Dakota for decades has been isolationism.

Unfortunately, many local traditionalists are certainly terrified that progressive movements will recognize logic and disrupt the inadequate status quo, and as such, fight hard to resist said progress. 

I agree with Brad's "biases" if that's the correct way to frame them in that the viability of some sports programs to some respect depended on the deletion of three.

Yes Isolationism is a ND (Professor Robinson's thesis) theme, but I'm not sure the context you are using it in this topic. We are isolating ourselves from other women's hockey programs?

[MafiaMan]

9 hours ago, MafiaMan said:

What's on ESPN2?

 

9 hours ago, cberkas said:

Was UConn taking their first loss.

 

8 hours ago, UND1983 said:

UConn.  Duh, bro.

Wow!  That's as big as North Dakota women's hockey losing an NCAA women's hockey semi-final game.  THAT'S how big that is.

Oh, wait...

[Oxbow6]

4 minutes ago, MafiaMan said:

 

 

Wow!  That's as big as North Dakota women's hockey losing an NCAA women's hockey semi-final game.  THAT'S how big that is.

Oh, wait...

UConn is now 158-2 in their last 160 games.............I now see the similarities in between the 2 programs.

#Faganknowssports

[geaux_sioux]

9 hours ago, UND1983 said:

UConn.  Duh, bro.

I was gonna say, I didn't think Bama football had a game til late August.

[MafiaMan]

8 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

I was gonna say, I didn't think Bama football had a game til late August.

They lost last season too.  

[geaux_sioux]

4 minutes ago, MafiaMan said:

They lost last season too.  

Curse of The Kate Fagino?

[gundy1124]

3 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

We'll agree to disagree here. Your FB analogy is unrealistic and exaggerated to make a point and I get it. Men's hockey, like it or not, is still the engine that drives the athletic department bus at UND. Due to that fact alone I hope it is not "maxed out"........which it is not. At this stage both FB and BB need hockey's success more so than the other way around. Hopefully that changes in the upcoming years. I'm banking on this year's success of both FB and BB to generate more exposure and interest in those programs. With the shoe dropping on WH there better be more dollars to infuse into both sports now. Back to "maxed out".......hypothetically if the seating at the Ralph were expanded those seats would sell no doubt about it. Attendance is somewhat maxed out due to building constraints not fan support. Ticket prices......BF could easily add a couple bucks per ticket to men's hockey to increase revenue and very few fans would blink. Exposure.........hockey's continued success nationally and with former players in the NHL right now is bigger exposure than the FB team's one playoff game to date and I say still bigger than the exposure of the one game by the MBB team in the Dance even though it was viewed by 1M+. With that being said UND's biggest opportunity IMO for all this "stuff" we are talking about is in MBB and it's not close. So if some want to continue to take shots at the MH program and down play it's vital role in the AD because of one season successes by FB and MBB again that's very ignorant and myopic. Is UND a "hockey school"...no but there is really no argument that as of today its most vital athletic program is MH.

I think we are really close-

Increase price, some upside revenue for MH.

Expand Ralph, not sure about that.

I was in NY for hockey, had to watch the FB game on TV and phone.  I was in Fargo for both regionals, did you see the big double flag?  The football blinders stigma is incorrect for me.

All I am saying is let's keep hockey on top and look to Boise St and Gonzaga as examples of great visionaries as what could be in FB and BB.  The success of UND FB and BB drives it's own growth, not sure hockey success matters too much to drive growth in these sports.   Financall yes, hockey drives things at UND.  But to be honest, a room full of UND hockey only fans can get a little stuffy.

As far as women's hockey, being a youth coach I took a large group of termite girls to a WH game and just this month am running a youth camp for girls hockey to start half ice games.  At the football games I always took my daughters to meet the WH players with the old 'hard work and dreams' speech.  I golfed with Fabian, UND fundraiser, a great guy.  I am saddened by the opportunity lost to young girls but that doesn't mean I am going to quit on developing WH with my girls and their current and future teammates.  My family also billets for the Fargo Force.  I've kept a close eye on our commit to UND.

All things considered at UND, I support the cut of WH but at the same time I am not thrilled with it.

[UND-FB-FAN]

4 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

We'll agree to disagree here. Your FB analogy is unrealistic and exaggerated to make a point and I get it. Men's hockey, like it or not, is still the engine that drives the athletic department bus at UND. Due to that fact alone I hope it is not "maxed out"........which it is not. At this stage both FB and BB need hockey's success more so than the other way around. Hopefully that changes in the upcoming years. I'm banking on this year's success of both FB and BB to generate more exposure and interest in those programs. With the shoe dropping on WH there better be more dollars to infuse into both sports now. Back to "maxed out".......hypothetically if the seating at the Ralph were expanded those seats would sell no doubt about it. Attendance is somewhat maxed out due to building constraints not fan support. Ticket prices......BF could easily add a couple bucks per ticket to men's hockey to increase revenue and very few fans would blink. Exposure.........hockey's continued success nationally and with former players in the NHL right now is bigger exposure than the FB team's one playoff game to date and I say still bigger than the exposure of the one game by the MBB team in the Dance even though it was viewed by 1M+. With that being said UND's biggest opportunity IMO for all this "stuff" we are talking about is in MBB and it's not close. So if some want to continue to take shots at the MH program and down play it's vital role in the AD because of one season successes by FB and MBB again that's very ignorant and myopic. Is UND a "hockey school"...no but there is really no argument that as of today its most vital athletic program is MH.

It sounds like your pride and biases are disrupting open discussion based on numbers, such as national popularity and DI athletic finances. Of course you can theoretically advance parameters endlessly irregardless of status (e.g., increase hockey ticket prices, increase REA seating, etc. etc. etc.), but that's not responsible to the overall potential that exists for DI athletics at UND. 

Yes, hockey at UND is currently their number one sport based on revenue and attendance. With that said, its niche status breeds isolationism and there is plenty of caution associated with that in terms of potential growth. 

Aimlessly expanding a UND hockey program that just won a national championship at the expense of the most popular DI sports in the country and region is not wise in terms of potential growth and competitiveness. Additionally, those mainstream DI sports also happen to have grossly underpaid staffs at UND in relation to regional counterparts. This needs to be addressed before the maximized programs (i.e. hockey) are again over-focused on. 

How many DI universities have their number one attended sport as men's hockey and still manage to produce "high-profile" DI basketball and/or football programs?

- yeah ...

It's very, very difficult to pull that off at the DI level. In my opinion, as well as that of the country, DI universities need to be successful in at least football and/or basketball to fully utilize their potential. Perhaps a different term than "maxed out" could be used, but I don't see perpetual benefit by pushing the "hockey school" agenda. Rather, UND needs to catch up - and fast - to the contemporary competitive landscape of DI athletics. 

PS: this is not anti-hockey; this is pro-DI collegiate athletics. 

[Nodak78]

On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 11:12 AM, fightingsioux4life said:

Again, I agreed with the decisions made this week. But nobody "needs" to "give it a rest". When you make controversial and/or unpopular decisions like this, you will have a backlash. That is why they hired a Title IX consultant. Kennedy and Faison probably understand and accept that. But very few people on this forum seem to understand it.

I do think Schlossman should be a little more careful about his choice of words (calling someone a moron isn't a good idea). But again, he is not obligated to agree with anything. Wayne Nelson whined and complained for weeks about baseball being cut last year, but he didn't get nearly as much grief as Schlossman is getting right now.

Brad can write an opinion and not a column.  Quite simple.

[SWSiouxMN]

How much did the Big Sky/Summit transition play into cutting swim and dive?  Was it possible this was the only sport (outside of WH) that UND could cut and not face a penalty from either conference?

The best way to move past this:  Win

Put up another year like this one and things will settle down. Struggle and this will linger

The worst thing UND can do right now is reneg.  This isn't just about Athletics when I say that, remember what cuts haven't been decided yet....

[MafiaMan]

The way some folks think, football and mens and womens basketball should have been cut before womens hockey.  I'm sure ESPN would have approved.

[fightingsioux4life]

9 hours ago, gundy1124 said:

All things considered at UND, I support the cut of WH but at the same time I am not thrilled with it.

This is my sentiment as well. Unfortunately, a lot of people on this forum have been getting nasty and vindictive towards anyone who thinks WH should have stayed. That is not necessary. We did what had to be done, let's just focus on the future.

[The Sicatoka]

I just read the SC Times' writer's piece on this subject. SCSU still has budget issues (to the tune of $7 million across campus) and that's after they cut SIX sports on campus not that long ago.  

You have to think women's hockey there is getting nervous, because, as the article said, SCSU's travel costs just went up because they just lost four games (two by bus) with UND. The next closest WIH team is St. Louis (Lindenwood). 

http://www.sctimes.com/story/sports/college/hockey/husky-hockey/2017/03/30/hatten-column-cut-und-womens-hockey-hits-close-home-rud-scsu/99833166/

[yzerman19]

You have to manage the programs like a portfolio.  It is okay for some programs to subsidize others, so it is not as black and white as isolating the programs with negative margins.  There are also sunk costs and opportunity costs as well as reputational risks and resultant unanticipated margin pressure that must be managed.  You have to consider both revenue enhancement vehicles to the portfolio (grow into profitability) as well as simple cost cutting mechanisms.  Is there a requirement that budgets have to be balanced (I am not very familiar with UND finances) if not, what is the current capital balance and what is the timeline to draining it- wondering if they can carry some losses while they work through it.  Debt is also extremely cheap right now, so debt service rather than eating the whole loss might be an option while things are repositioned.  

I have to presume that the financial leadership at the University is at least somewhat savvy in all of these things, and would've considered them all.  If you are trying to grow various programs, you can't be expected to be profitable, and if the UND was operating under a cashflow assumption, that is a huge mistake.  

To put it in layman's midwestern terms, do you choose to not buy the land or the combine based on cashflow today?  If that's the logic you never grow.

We are taking a huge blackeye, and I always worry about bean counters stifling vision...believe me, I love my bean counters, but I love the vision more...its a beautiful give and take.

[The Sicatoka]

Given Kennedy's background, yeah, he understands cost benefit ratios. He was only CFO of a couple major corporations. 

[yzerman19]

2 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Given Kennedy's background, yeah, he understands cost benefit ratios. He was only CFO of a couple major corporations. 

Good- I don't know anything about him, live a long way away and didn't bother to research.

[ringneck28]

It is ok to cut a program that cost millions in losses every year.  I don't see anyone stepping up to cover those losses year after year.  In the end, it is a business of education.  Someone has to pay for it and if my tax money is being misused, I ask for accountability.

[yzerman19]

Just researched him- yep, he gets it

[The Sicatoka]

Lest we forget, the State of North Dakota is cutting 20% out of the State budget across the board.

Across the board.

The Public Service Commission (consumer protection) is being hit; K-12 education is being hit (hence Fargo's recent vote to raise their mill levy to try to make it up); DOT (they are looking at closing a dozen local snow plow shops in just southeast ND). Across the board. Nothing is escaping the budget knifes of Gov. Bergum and the Legislature. 

So, yeah, it really sucks to lose a college sports team or two or three. But driving on unplowed roads sucks. So does getting gas from pumps that aren't checked for accuracy. And teachers wondering if they'll have jobs (and choosing to leave the field) when finding teachers is hard enough already sucks. 

There's a whole lot of sucks going around.

To those feeling it, I'm sorry.

To those just noticing, the party started a while ago. Where were you? 

[ringneck28]

2 minutes ago, yzerman19 said:

Just researched him- yep, he gets it

Which as a taxpayer in the state of ND we asked the SBOHE to hire someone who would make the tough decisions.  The good ole days of free flowing money are behind us for now and we need fiscal accountability.  This was not a popular move, but in the end, they are a state run institution and I want my tax dollars spent wisely.  He just did what the Gov. asked him to. 

[dmksioux]

21 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

I just read the SC Times' writer's piece on this subject. SCSU still has budget issues (to the tune of $7 million across campus) and that's after they cut SIX sports on campus not that long ago.  

You have to think women's hockey there is getting nervous, because, as the article said, SCSU's travel costs just went up because they just lost four games (two by bus) with UND. The next closest WIH team is St. Louis (Lindenwood). 

http://www.sctimes.com/story/sports/college/hockey/husky-hockey/2017/03/30/hatten-column-cut-und-womens-hockey-hits-close-home-rud-scsu/99833166/

Don't they play Bemidji, Minny, or Duluth??

 

 

[ringneck28]

2 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Lest we forget, the State of North Dakota is cutting 20% out of the State budget across the board.

Across the board.

The Public Service Commission (consumer protection) is being hit; K-12 education is being hit (hence Fargo's recent vote to raise their mill levy to try to make it up); DOT (they are looking at closing a dozen local snow plow shops in just southeast ND). Across the board. Nothing is escaping the budget knifes of Gov. Bergum and the Legislature. 

So, yeah, it really sucks to lose a college sports team or two or three. But driving on unplowed roads sucks. So does getting gas from pumps that aren't checked for accuracy. And teachers wondering if they'll have jobs (and choosing to leave the field) when finding teachers is hard enough already sucks. 

There's a whole lot of sucks going around.

To those feeling it, I'm sorry.

To those just noticing, the party started a while ago. Where were you? 

Oh, believe me, there are lots of people in ND who are feeling it.  Not just state employee's.  I can attest to this personally.  Lets just say, drill baby drill is going to sound good in the future.

[dmksioux]

2 minutes ago, dmksioux said:

 

 

[MafiaMan]

Nothing was learned from the 1980's oil boom, was it?  Just kick back, let the money roll in, then spend it as fast as you can. Nice work.