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[darell1976]

1 hour ago, 82SiouxGuy said:

Doesn't look like Native American imagery, does have feathers, not a problem.

 

Does resemble Native American imagery and could be a problem. Logos like these would not be chosen by UND.

Is that simple enough for people? It isn't whether the image has feathers or not, it is whether the feathers look like a Native American headdress or other Native imagery, or whether they look like regular bird feathers.

If it wasn't for the bs NCAA policy I like the middle Hawk with the Indian feathers on the helmet. It looks sharp. But if they would've let Brien do the logo in the first place he would've had a good one and for a lot less money they are paying someone who knows nothing about this area and this school.

[The Sicatoka]

3 hours ago, darell1976 said:

I like the middle Hawk with the Indian feathers on the helmet. 

Like I said before, eliminate the circle object behind the eye that gives clear reference to a (native) head dress and it'd be pretty solid. 

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

11 hours ago, darell1976 said:

But if they would've let Brien do the logo in the first place he would've had a good one and for a lot less money they are paying someone who knows nothing about this area and this school.

Maybe I missed it, but where did Brien's fee requirements get mentioned?  You're not just making things up, are you?

[petey23]

2 hours ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Maybe I missed it, but where did Brien's fee requirements get mentioned?  You're not just making things up, are you?

You are wondering if darell1976 is just making things up?

Are you new here?

[jdub27]

15 hours ago, 82SiouxGuy said:

Doesn't look like Native American imagery, does have feathers, not a problem.

Is that simple enough for people? It isn't whether the image has feathers or not, it is whether the feathers look like a Native American headdress or other Native imagery, or whether they look like regular bird feathers.

Just want to point out that even Ben Brien was aware of this as his mock-up doesn't have the headdress look.

[darell1976]

2 hours ago, NoiseInsideMyHead said:

Maybe I missed it, but where did Brien's fee requirements get mentioned?  You're not just making things up, are you?

Did you think Brien would charge a lot of money for his logo? How much did he charge for the Sioux logo?

[petey23]

5 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

Did you think Brien would charge a lot of money for his logo? How much did he charge for the Sioux logo?

Do you think he just does things out of the goodness of his heart?

Why would you think that?

He had the opportunity to bid on this project and chose not to.

[UNDvince97-01]

On 2/24/2016 at 4:25 PM, petey23 said:

Correct.

This seems to get brought up all the time and people point to William and Mary.

The difference is they kept their name and removed Native American Imagery.

A bird has feathers a Tribe does not.....especially when the definition of Tribe used by William and Mary is not to define a Native American group.

I believe this is incorrect.  William & Mary changed their name from "Indians" to "Tribe" and then incorporated a feather for a logo, correct? 

 

[UNDvince97-01]

Big Sky Conference Member Southern Utah:  Thunderbirds

So I guess I don't get why some think that would be so offensive.  (Not that I'm fighting for it)

Seems to be yet another double standard.

[siouxstudent]

6 hours ago, darell1976 said:

Did you think Brien would charge a lot of money for his logo? How much did he charge for the Sioux logo?

Wasnt it like a couple grand?

[82SiouxGuy]

1 hour ago, UNDvince97-01 said:

Big Sky Conference Member Southern Utah:  Thunderbirds

So I guess I don't get why some think that would be so offensive.  (Not that I'm fighting for it)

Seems to be yet another double standard.

The name wouldn't be a problem. SUU uses a logo that looks like this:

A logo that looks like a totem pole would be the problem.

[petey23]

1 hour ago, UNDvince97-01 said:

I believe this is incorrect.  William & Mary changed their name from "Indians" to "Tribe" and then incorporated a feather for a logo, correct? 

 

Well they did  change their name from Indians to The Tribe but that was in the late 70's I believe. The NCAA told them to get rid of the feathers in their logo in 2006 in association with The Tribe name.

[UNDvince97-01]

49 minutes ago, 82SiouxGuy said:

The name wouldn't be a problem. SUU uses a logo that looks like this:

A logo that looks like a totem pole would be the problem.

I undertand what you are saying, and that's fine. But by definition, as discussed here in this thread, what is a "Thunderbird"? 

My opinion is that the cartoony logo doesn't change the meaning of the word.

Still appears to be a double standard.

Given the definition, I wonder if "Thunderbirds" would have been acceptable for UND as a nickname?  I tend to think not, but I could be wrong.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

I feel like I'm in the minority that doesn't think Brien's logo is anything special. And I was in the camp that wanted to give him the logo design. I'm holding out hope for SME creating something somewhat unique but that's just the optimist in me.

[82SiouxGuy]

35 minutes ago, UNDvince97-01 said:

I undertand what you are saying, and that's fine. But by definition, as discussed here in this thread, what is a "Thunderbird"? 

My opinion is that the cartoony logo doesn't change the meaning of the word.

Still appears to be a double standard.

Given the definition, I wonder if "Thunderbirds" would have been acceptable for UND as a nickname?  I tend to think not, but I could be wrong.

I think that the NCAA would have looked at Thunderbirds like they look at Brave(s) or Tribe. They all are used in connection with Native Americans, but also have other meanings and usage. So I think they would have looked at Thunderbirds along with the logo and rest of the usage. If UND went with an airplane theme along with Thunderbirds, the NCAA would have been fine with it. If they tried a totem pole logo, the NCAA would have said no. But UND probably would have been looked at more closely than other schools if they had gone with the Thunderbirds name.

[nodak651]

18 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Like I said before, eliminate the circle object behind the eye that gives clear reference to a (native) head dress and it'd be pretty solid. 

Done.

[UNDBIZ]

Am I the only one who looks at that logo and sees this?

[Old Time Hockey]

20 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Am I the only one who looks at that logo and sees this?

[Hawkster]

Being told again, no NA imagery.   http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/local/3978879-former-und-lawyer-warns-against-continued-use-native-american-imagery-new-logo

[Kab]

Haven't seen anything yet I would go for

[bigskyvikes]

12 hours ago, TRex said:

Being told again, no NA imagery.   http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/local/3978879-former-und-lawyer-warns-against-continued-use-native-american-imagery-new-logo

Funny how these people give advice on what they ASS U ME is the stance of the NCAA! Happens a lot on here also. Why doesn't someone just verify their stance? 

God forbid a feather on a bird logo!!! Just don't get it...

[darell1976]

2 hours ago, bigskyvikes said:

Funny how these people give advice on what they ASS U ME is the stance of the NCAA! Happens a lot on here also. Why doesn't someone just verify their stance? 

God forbid a feather on a bird logo!!! Just don't get it...

If Indian imagery is okay in your eyes why did William & Mary had to drop the feathers from their "Tribe" logo? 

http://pilotonline.com/sports/william-and-mary-will-pluck-feathers-from-its-athletic-logo/article_a77b1478-0686-5374-9546-535f38ae3cec.html

" After thinking about suing to keep its two-feathered logo intact, College of William and Mary officials have decided the issue no longer is worth a fight.

The college announced Tuesday that it would phase out the feathers, which the NCAA says insults American Indians, but not without some public tongue-lashing. "

 

 

 

[Siouxperfan7]

8 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

If Indian imagery is okay in your eyes why did William & Mary had to drop the feathers from their "Tribe" logo? 

http://pilotonline.com/sports/william-and-mary-will-pluck-feathers-from-its-athletic-logo/article_a77b1478-0686-5374-9546-535f38ae3cec.html

" After thinking about suing to keep its two-feathered logo intact, College of William and Mary officials have decided the issue no longer is worth a fight.

The college announced Tuesday that it would phase out the feathers, which the NCAA says insults American Indians, but not without some public tongue-lashing. "

 

 

 

If your nickname is Tribe and you have a feather in your logo, then that's probably not gonna fly.  But is the NCAA really going to come to UND after their logo comes out and say that their bird logo can't have feathers?  As rediculous as it sounds, UND needs to nip tis in the bud and just ask for clarification.  Seems stupid to have to ask if birds can have feathers....but hey, its the NCAA!!!  

[Fetch]

I like it best so far - Let's get it done & move on

PS...I dislike the thunderbird (totem) one as much as I disliked Roughriders - can't explain it - it's just wrong

Also to HELL with the ncaa

[UND1981]

Still looks like a cheesy bird logo to me.