2016 North Dakota HS Hockey

[UND1983]

1 minute ago, Walsh Hall said:

Did those teams (V.C., Shanley...) have an option?  Looks like there are 16 AAA teams and 16 AA.  There has to be a break somewhere.

Right.  They were forced to move down.  They fought it tooth and nail and didn't politic for it.  

[Oxbow6]

Fargo is a superior city to Grand Forks.

 

Discuss.................

 

Just trying to divert the tension here. 

[Oxbow6]

9 minutes ago, Walsh Hall said:

Did those teams (V.C., Shanley...) have an option?  Looks like there are 16 AAA teams and 16 AA.  There has to be a break somewhere.

This "break" is a student enrollment issue.  Hockey, boys or girls, has nothing to do with this. Apples to oranges.

 

[Walsh Hall]

5 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Fargo is a superior city to Grand Forks.

 

Discuss.................

 

Just trying to divert the tension here. 

Hard to argue with that.  The true measure of a city is the number of HS championships held therein.  I hear Fargo will be hosting all HS state championships outside of tennis.  A source indicated that Fargo is pushing hard and the smart money is the tennis championship also being relocated to Fargo in 2021.  The project tennis gate of $17 for Fargo dwarfs the $12 for GF.

[JohnboyND7]

1 hour ago, ksixpack said:

new Ralph was open for 5 months.  Do you think many went to Fargo last year to see how Scheels Arena handled the tournament?  I did for that sole purpose.

I can't imagine people being excited to see the Scheels Arena.  So the Ralph Engelstad Arena, the Cathedral, Taj Mahal, etc. of collegiate hockey, hosted the ND State Tourney 5 months after opening and 9500 or whatever showed up.  I'd say the lure of seeing the new($100 million+) home of UND hockey was pretty strong relative to the lure of going to Fargo to see the Scheels Arena.

[Tsiouxnami]

21 minutes ago, sioux rube said:

Again grow the sport not the trophy case and the only way to do that is to have 2 teams in Bismarck. God forbid if they don't make it to the championship game every year. 

I did not comment to get drug into an argument. I was simply stating facts as they currently stand. When they, meaning Bismarck Public Schools, can sustain two teams for more than just the short term. with players in grades 9-12 (and I am sure some 8th graders), they will. Bismarck Public School System will not foot the bill for two teams up until that time. I guess those are the people with whom everyone should raise their concerns.

[SiouxVolley]

2 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

I can't imagine people being excited to see the Scheels Arena.  So the Ralph Engelstad Arena, the Cathedral, Taj Mahal, etc. of collegiate hockey, hosted the ND State Tourney 5 months after opening and 9500 or whatever showed up.  I'd say the lure of seeing the new($100 million+) home of UND hockey was pretty strong relative to the lure of going to Fargo to see the Scheels Arena.

Nearly all of Walsh County showed up for that championship game because Grafton was in it.

[sioux rube]

19 minutes ago, Tsiouxnami said:

I did not comment to get drug into an argument. I was simply stating facts as they currently stand. When they, meaning Bismarck Public Schools, can sustain two teams for more than just the short term. with players in grades 9-12 (and I am sure some 8th graders), they will. Bismarck Public School System will not foot the bill for two teams up until that time. I guess those are the people with whom everyone should raise their concerns.

Then girls will continue to quit knowing they aren't an all star and won't make the one high school team. It's happening now and has been. Sad deal for sure. 

[waldo]

Tsiouxnami,

Hockey age of 14 is 9th graders, so I'm sure there are at least 5 girls on the 14U team that are 8th or 9th graders which would mean they have 30 girls to make 2 teams.  That's plenty for 2 competitive teams, Minot took 5th 2 years ago with 10 skaters and a goalie 

[ksixpack]

43 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

I'm sure coaches in all the other sports have opinions too but I'm not sure how that matters because it doesn't change the fact that the start times are what they are. However, considering the teams aren't staying over night, that dampens the economic impact that people are putting out there. And as I proved (despite your instance it had never happened), this isn't the first time the tournament has been set up like this, nor is it the first time there have been games at the times they were at, across the board during all rounds. However, I'm sure that Idalski and Faison were happy with the way the weekend turned out, so that is a positive.

As to your comment about what Kevin Fee has to say, again, I'll differ to the management team at the Ralph who's job is to run the arena in a way Ralph would approve and report to a board of directors who ensure that. If it is imperative that Grand Forks keep the tournament maybe the REA isn't the correct venue for it and if the NDHSAA is bent on making the most money, maybe Grand Forks isn't the correct location because it becomes a pretty tough argument to permanently have it in Grand Forks if the gate is that much larger in Fargo.

Well congrats as you just named about the only two who would be happy with the scheduling (Idalski and Faison).  Glad we could accomidate them instead of the vast majority, including the kids that bust there ass all year for the opportunity to play at state.  The rest of us (99%) are happy that they are happy.

Kevin Fee and I told you how Ralph would approve and it sure the hell wouldn't have been at the detriment of the high school kids...the Sioux women could have practiced at 10am right, why was that such a poor option?  Don't tell me because they would miss a couple of hours of sleep or because they would miss class...you dismissed that for the high school athletes so you can't have it both ways to fit your argument.

The gate was larger in Fargo the first year of Fargo campared to the prior (and worst) year at the Ralph.  Compare REA's first year or average of first ten or Fargo's 2nd year next year and then we can talk...of course that would be logical.  Also, you are discounting the suite holders at the REA that get into all events...those suiteholders have tickets that are free and are not counted as revenue.

[Oxbow6]

9 minutes ago, waldo said:

 

Hockey age of 14 is 9th graders, so I'm sure there are at least 5 girls on the 14U team that are 8th or 9th graders which would mean they have 30 girls to make 2 teams.  That's plenty for 2 competitive teams, Minot took 5th 2 years ago with 10 skaters and a goalie 

The WF girls placed 2nd behind Bismarck in the state tournament.  The WF starting goalie was a freshman.

 

Kids just want to play. Given the opportunity they'll compete and at the end of the day that's all that matters...getting the opportunity to compete. 

[jdub27]

6 minutes ago, ksixpack said:

Well congrats as you just named about the only two who would be happy with the scheduling (Idalski and Faison).  Glad we could accomidate them instead of the vast majority, including the kids that bust there ass all year for the opportunity to play at state.  The rest of us (99%) are happy that they are happy.

Kevin Fee and I told you how Ralph would approve and it sure the hell wouldn't have been at the detriment of the high school kids...the Sioux women could have practiced at 10am right, why was that such a poor option?  Don't tell me because they would miss a couple of hours of sleep or because they would miss class...you dismissed that for the high school athletes so you can't have it both ways to fit your argument.

The gate was larger in Fargo the first year of Fargo campared to the prior (and worst) year at the Ralph.  Compare REA's first year or average of first ten or Fargo's 2nd year next year and then we can talk...of course that would be logical.  Also, you are discounting the suite holders at the REA that get into all events...those suiteholders have tickets that are free and are not counted as revenue.

It's a UND facility, they have priority (technically private but the priority thing stands). It was set up that way intentionally, not sure why that is a hard concept to understand. Almost if not all of these other facilities are public facilities, big difference.

A lot of people seem to think they know how someone isn't around any more would think, I'll take your comments with a grain of salt.  As for practice, I'd guess the women's hockey team has class at 10 am, because you know, student-athletes and stuff. I didn't dismiss class for the high school kids because it didn't matter, Grand Forks didn't have school and any schools that did, would have traveled that morning or the night before, it would have had zero effect on the amount of classes they attended.

I hope that Grand Forks keeps it, next year's Fargo numbers will tell the story. I'm just pointing out that if the numbers are important, than they need to improve in Grand Forks or fall off in Fargo. Do suite holders in Scheels Arena get tickets? Not as big of a number but if you're going to use it an excuse for one, then make sure you apply it to the other.

[sioux rube]

25 minutes ago, waldo said:

Tsiouxnami,

Hockey age of 14 is 9th graders, so I'm sure there are at least 5 girls on the 14U team that are 8th or 9th graders which would mean they have 30 girls to make 2 teams.  That's plenty for 2 competitive teams, Minot took 5th 2 years ago with 10 skaters and a goalie 

My girls took 5th and 4th in 2012 and 2013 with 11 skaters and a goalie. Only team we didn't beat in the state was West Fargo and took them to overtime. Bismarck has the players to do it. No question. 

[ksixpack]

3 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

It's a UND facility, they have priority (technically private but the priority thing stands). It was set up that way intentionally, not sure why that is a hard concept to understand. Almost if not all of these other facilities are public facilities, big difference.

A lot of people seem to think they know how someone isn't around any more would think, I'll take your comments with a grain of salt.  As for practice, I'd guess the women's hockey team has class at 10 am, because you know, student-athletes and stuff. I didn't dismiss class for the high school kids because it didn't matter, Grand Forks didn't have school and any schools that did, would have traveled that morning or the night before, it would have had zero effect on the amount of classes they attended.

I hope that Grand Forks keeps it, next year's Fargo numbers will tell the story. I'm just pointing out that if the numbers are important, than they need to improve in Grand Forks or fall off in Fargo. Do suite holders in Scheels Arena get tickets? Not as big of a number but if you're going to use it an excuse for one, then make sure you apply it to the other.

We all realize who has priority...yes REA has priority...but it is about doing the right thing for the majority and the tournament you are hosting.  The Wild have priority at the Xcel too but they cordinate with the NHL to schedule games and practices around the MN state high school tournament, meanwhile our womens hockey program that is peanuts is smug and won't budge on their practice time for the good of the community, the tournament, or the high school kids.  That is the issue!  We are all well aware of who has priority, we just don't like how petty they are with said priority.   Can you get that?

We personally knew Ralph and we know what his priority would be so taking our comments with a grain of salt is a slap in the face.  Please go to someone else who knew Ralph personally and ask them who Ralph would want to have priority this past weekend...the high school state tournament or the womens hockey practice.

You need to read the link I posted for you...it's not the GF schools that were complaining about the early start times and missing class...read the article before you post your nonsense.

The REA comps all suiteholders with a tournament pass for each seat they have in their suite.  48 suites with at least 20 seats = 960 free passes available.  I know very many who received free passes from suite holders that were not going; at $36 for a tournament pass that is up to $34,560 in lost revenue.  Suddenly, the revenue difference makes even more sense now.  I cannot comment as to why the REA charges $10,000 more then Scheels does but it probably has something to do with why they gouge $4 for a bottle of water for this high school event as well.

[82SiouxGuy]

2 hours ago, ksixpack said:

Tweet from Kevin Fee, a former GF Herald reporter who interviewed Ralph when he dedicated the REA...I guess I am not so clueless now am I 82SiouxGuy?

Kevin Fee ‏@feethrows  23h23 hours ago

GF hock leders must step up and keep state hock. Ralph's vision (talked to him when he annced new arena) UND men & and hs hock. Get it done.

It would have been really hard for Ralph to mention the women's hockey team since it didn't exist at the time the building was dedicated, much less a couple of years earlier when it was announced (which is what Fee seems to indicate in the quote). When he announced the gift it was to help the hockey program (which was only men at the time but now also includes women), UND, and Grand Forks. UND has contracts for usage of the facility. First round games at 10 am aren't the real problem with keeping the event in Grand Forks, profits for the NDSHAA are the problem. If the NDSHAA was making $50,000 more in Grand Forks they would play the championship game at 10 am.

[jdub27]

14 minutes ago, ksixpack said:

We personally knew Ralph and we know what his priority would be so taking our comments with a grain of salt is a slap in the face.  Please go to someone else who knew Ralph personally and ask them who Ralph would want to have priority this past weekend...the high school state tournament or the womens hockey practice.

The same type of comments were made about Ralph and the nickname. Then Earl Strinden came out and said the complete opposite. Again, anyone who says they know exactly what someone who is no longer alive would have done isn't speaking in facts, they are stating their opinion.

We aren't going to agree on it. You think that high school kids should have priority over UND in the REA, I don't agree. The management at the REA didn't either and the NDHSAA was fine with the accommodations made. It wasn't the first time it has happened yet somehow its the end of the world this time around not to mention many other state championships are played early in the morning.

[ksixpack]

12 minutes ago, 82SiouxGuy said:

It would have been really hard for Ralph to mention the women's hockey team since it didn't exist at the time the building was dedicated, much less a couple of years earlier when it was announced (which is what Fee seems to indicate in the quote). When he announced the gift it was to help the hockey program (which was only men at the time but now also includes women), UND, and Grand Forks. UND has contracts for usage of the facility. First round games at 10 am aren't the real problem with keeping the event in Grand Forks, profits for the NDSHAA are the problem. If the NDSHAA was making $50,000 more in Grand Forks they would play the championship game at 10 am.

 

[Oxbow6]

Bottom line: THe NDHSAA is going to put tournaments in cities/venues that bring in the biggest crowds which results in more money. Pretty simple.

[nhockey30]

1 hour ago, waldo said:

Tsiouxnami,

Hockey age of 14 is 9th graders, so I'm sure there are at least 5 girls on the 14U team that are 8th or 9th graders which would mean they have 30 girls to make 2 teams.  That's plenty for 2 competitive teams, Minot took 5th 2 years ago with 10 skaters and a goalie 

The 14U team in Bismarck, with 19 players on it, is comprised of only 8th and 9th graders. Anyone else younger is on a 12U team. I believe the problem in Bismarck from what I've heard is that the growth there has mostly been north, making one team have a much larger number base than the other (South). They didn't want to entertain drafting teams each year and wanted to keep it boundary driven. That causes a problem when you may have 26 girls up north and only 8 or 9 down south. They deemed that NOT SUSTAINABLE because you can't field a team with 8 girls. Total overall numbers, it sounds like they have enough. If they were interested in 2 teams they would've been creative and tried to make co-op teams or something. I honestly believe that the only way Bismarck will have 2 teams is if we in other communities force it somehow.

[fightingsioux4life]

41 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Bottom line: THe NDHSAA is going to put tournaments in cities/venues that bring in the biggest crowds which results in more money. Pretty simple.

That basically means Fargo will be hosting all major tournaments at some point in the future. It's only a matter of time, that is the end game here. And hell hath no fury like western legislators scorned.

I will repeat the suggestion I have already put forth: Move the tournament to Purpur and utilize Gambucci next door and the Eagles Arena for some of the consolation games. If Scheels Arena (which I have been in and am not all that impressed with) is good enough for this tournament, then Purpur should be able to as well. It used to host this tournament many years ago and the arena has been renovated several times, so it isn't run down. The Heraldo editorial on Saturday was spot-on with regard to what has to be done to keep the tournament in Grand Forks. And I hope some people in high places are taking this seriously.

[fightingsioux4life]

1 hour ago, ksixpack said:

The REA comps all suiteholders with a tournament pass for each seat they have in their suite.  48 suites with at least 20 seats = 960 free passes available.  I know very many who received free passes from suite holders that were not going; at $36 for a tournament pass that is up to $34,560 in lost revenue.  Suddenly, the revenue difference makes even more sense now.  I cannot comment as to why the REA charges $10,000 more then Scheels does but it probably has something to do with why they gouge $4 for a bottle of water for this high school event as well.

This is why moving the tournament to Purpur is a good idea. No suite-holders getting free tickets, much lower rent, better atmosphere, more excitement. Some people will grouse about not having it in REA, but it is just too big for this tournament.

[Fetch]

Can't u annex TRF (into ND) for a week & use the Little Ralph

[Oxbow6]

15 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

That basically means Fargo will be hosting all major tournaments at some point in the future. It's only a matter of time, that is the end game here. And hell hath no fury like western legislators scorned.

I will repeat the suggestion I have already put forth: Move the tournament to Purpur and utilize Gambucci next door and the Eagles Arena for some of the consolation games. If Scheels Arena (which I have been in and am not all that impressed with) is good enough for this tournament, then Purpur should be able to as well. It used to host this tournament many years ago and the arena has been renovated several times, so it isn't run down. The Heraldo editorial on Saturday was spot-on with regard to what has to be done to keep the tournament in Grand Forks. And I hope some people in high places are taking this seriously.

You don't have to impressed with the Scheels Arena.......but there is a reason the West Regional will be back there next March.

......and have the state hockey tournament in GF but not at the Ralph?

[fightingsioux4life]

1 minute ago, Oxbow6 said:

You don't have to impressed with the Scheels Arena.......but there is a reason the West Regional will be back there next March.

......and have the state hockey tournament in GF but not at the Ralph?

It is simply too big for this tournament. Add to that the lost revenue from the suite-holders getting in for free and the high rent and this is a no-brainer decision.

And the only reason Scheels Arena is hosting the West Regional is because of the NCAA's asinine "neutral site" policy with regard to regional tournaments. If not for that, it would be at REA, where it would almost definitely sell out like it did in 2006.

[petey23]

22 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

It is simply too big for this tournament. Add to that the lost revenue from the suite-holders getting in for free and the high rent and this is a no-brainer decision.

And the only reason Scheels Arena is hosting the West Regional is because of the NCAA's asinine "neutral site" policy with regard to regional tournaments. If not for that, it would be at REA, where it would almost definitely sell out like it did in 2006.

Those damn evil suite holders.