fightingsioux4life Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) Just playing Devil's Advocate...According to the NDSU website, the school has 14,000 students from 48 states and 69 countries (https://www.ndsu.edu/admission/)According to the UND website, the school has nearly 15,000 students from 50 states and 84 countries (http://und.edu/discover/)So I think that your statement that people outside of Grand Forks city limits don't even know the UND exists is a huge exaggeration. I agree that some of the coaches are not held to the same standards. When I attended UND from 2004-2008 I loved going to the sporting events. I went to every hockey and football game, some basketball games, some women's hockey games, and a handful of soccer, baseball, and volleyball games. If I went to UND today would I attend as many events? Maybe, but I can't say that for sure. I love college hockey. I would still attend all the men's games, and as many of the women's game as I was able. As much as I enjoyed college football, I SIGNIFICANTLY like pro football better and when your team is getting creamed on a weekly basis, the fun quickly wears off (and I don't drink so it isn't like I would be outside partying). If the teams can't put a good, competitive game on the field/court/etc it isn't going to be entertaining and people aren't going to want to go. We can't bite the hand that feeds us (men's hockey) and if we need to offer FCOA to get the recruits and stay competitive in hockey, then so be it. Might the other programs get slight less money? Probably. But they also aren't making any money. Money doesn't just grow on trees (or so my parents told me)... What do we need to do to increase our exposure and success in athletics and as an institution? Raise coaches salaries to be more competitive, and upgrade facilities (both athletic and academic), advertising... How are we supposed to get the money to do all of this? Charge more for tickets? Raise tuition? I am sure the school and athletic department would be all ears The bolded section above is what is wrong with UND today. All that matters is hockey and if everything else goes to Hades in a hand basket, then so be it. As for the other programs not making money, that is the case with 95+ percent of collegiate athletic programs. Most schools have only one revenue sport. For us, it's hockey. For NDSU, it's football. For Duke, it's basketball. But it's also possible to be good in more than one sport (see Florida in football and men's basketball). A myopic focus on one sport is not healthy for an athletic program.Also, it's not my job or your job to find more resources. It's Kelley and Faison's job, with help from the UND Alumni Association. They are making good money to run this campus and athletic department, respectively. And FCOA is coming, we just don't know when. I would like to have some sort of game plan in place that doesn't involve slash and burn athletic department budgets.In short, I am sick of hearing how poor and destitute we are as an athletic department. I will say this again: If we don't have the resources to put competitive and championship contending teams on the field/court, then we shouldn't have moved up in the first place. Sometimes I wonder if we moved up just because FU did. That is never a reason to make a move such as this. But now that we have made the move, there is no going back.Finally, no one has said the nickname issue is the cause of all our problems. What I meant was the resources that go to the nickname fight could be better used to build our non-hockey Division I programs. Of course, some people don't really care about that, which explains some of the divisions on this forum and elsewhere. Edited August 16, 2015 by fightingsioux4life 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny Baker Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 Thanks for the negative reputation vote, fightingsioux4live! The athletic budget does not go toward "the nickname fight", btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Thanks for the negative reputation vote, fightingsioux4live! The athletic budget does not go toward "the nickname fight", btw.Okay, then how about the time and energy that Kelley and Faison have to devote to this? That takes a toll on those two, don't kid yourself. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) So NDSU is worried sick about this because their student section goes into an orgy and shouts Sioux Su** S**t for the last forty years? There are not worried because the UND admin are throwing shi* to the media, and the media is just plain dumb so they believe it. When are you going to stop trusting academic types? Edited August 17, 2015 by SiouxVolley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Okay, then how about the time and energy that Kelley and Faison have to devote to this? That takes a toll on those two, don't kid yourself.It will also affect UND's search for Kelley's replacement. Kelley might just force through a nickname change in an attempt to take that mess off his replacement's desk. I'm not sure it would work. If he does so, I would guess it would be based on a more real threat of sanctions given to him "off the record" from the NCAA. Just a guess, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny Baker Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 Okay, then how about the time and energy that Kelley and Faison have to devote to this? That takes a toll on those two, don't kid yourself.Yup, it's their jobs. If they can't hack it, I'm certain the UND community will/are welcoming their replacements with open arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 The free speech aspect of this is a non-starter.The NCAA is a private club. They can make up "club rules" as they go, and as a private (not public) entity they are not bound by the First Amendment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obborg Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/local/3818902-sioux-chants-could-mean-consequences-undOkay this is such as bluff it's hilarious - NCAA would sanction UND if another school complains that UND fans were cheering Fight Sioux?1. Would the NCAA also sanction a rival school that cheered "Sioux Suck" or similar?2. How could the NCAA prove it was UND fans doing the cheering? And saying they were wearing Sioux gear proves nothing see #1. 3. What school is going to take the time to do that and create hard feelings with another school over off-ice cheers?4. Does it have to be a school or could anyone file a complaint - that opens a can of worms for verification? 5. What is the reality of the NCAA punishing a school for a person exercising their rights of free speech?I'm guessing the next Herald story will talk about how rumors are flying that members of the Big Sky are starting to share their concerns, and how UND could get kicked out of Big Sky. I call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Last time UND tried to call the NCAA's bluff, UND lost a nickname and as a bonus the NCAA Executive Committee got a whole new set of powers to make up stuff as they go. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obborg Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Last time UND tried to call the NCAA's bluff, UND lost a nickname and as a bonus the NCAA Executive Committee got a whole new set of powers to make up stuff as they go.It's not the NCAA who is bluffing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 HAAAAAA, i like that one!!!GO FIGHTING SIOUXI could live with Roughriders but not sure ill ever buy a jersey and i will keep chanting LETS GO SIOUX because I cant stand the pc crowd and dont like when someone tells me i cant say something when this is supposed to be a free country, if people want to let themselves feel hurt by it then so be it. How about a bunch of us get together and go cry about the fighting Irish and how much the logo (that looks like its ready to fight) offends us! go for it. Notre Dame has money. And a lot of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 When it comes to publicly funded/affiliated schools and venues, they sure are. This is just the sort of issue that would provide even more rope for the NCAA to hang itself. Outside the Kohl Center or the Mariucci or the Ralph, which is presently privately owned but leased by a publicly funded institution are "free speech zones" but inside thou shalt not go there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperfan7 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Will the NCAA really allow UND to have no nickname? Will other schools complain that ?UND fans are still unofficially using Fighting Sioux as the unofficial nickname? Can the NCAA really sanction UND for not having a name? Does free speech apply here? How long do we have to worry about this being an issue? If only there were a solution to end all these questions?!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWSiouxMN Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Will the NCAA really allow UND to have no nickname? Will other schools complain that ?UND fans are still unofficially using Fighting Sioux as the unofficial nickname? Can the NCAA really sanction UND for not having a name? Does free speech apply here? How long do we have to worry about this being an issue? If only there were a solution to end all these questions?!! Well there was one solution to the questions.... it only lasted 2 days however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 http://www.grandforksherald.com/opinion/letters/3819195-letter-no-nickname-fans-sure-do-sioux-jerseysSomebody finally writes in to further highlight the obvious. Why isn't anyone wearing the interlocking ND in the pictures (one guy has a yard sign I guess) - that is the logo they so desperately want to keep, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) It's not the NCAA who is bluffing here.You're right. The bluff is by the "no nickname" folks: We're fine without a nickname (but we'll keep wearing the old nickname). The NCAA (per Goon, and now GFH) seems more than willing to call that bluff with their "no nickname is fine if you're serious; but, if we hear complaints about hearing too much of the old nickname we're coming back at you" stance.I'm willing to say the NCAA is not bluffing on that. Why? It's the same approach they took last time, namely, you can have any nickname you want, but if it's the wrong one in our minds we're coming at you. Edited August 17, 2015 by The Sicatoka 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperfan7 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 http://www.grandforksherald.com/opinion/letters/3819196-letter-petulance-some-und-fans-discredits-universitySome great opinion pieces today in the Herald today. Another person who gets it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I am in the camp of anything but Sundogs. I prefer the North Dakota option, but would gladly accept Rough Riders and Fighting Hawks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Will the NCAA really allow UND to have no nickname? Will other schools complain that ?UND fans are still unofficially using Fighting Sioux as the unofficial nickname? Can the NCAA really sanction UND for not having a name? Does free speech apply here? How long do we have to worry about this being an issue? If only there were a solution to end all these questions?!! They're still going to use Fighting Sioux either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Boy Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 You're right. The bluff is by the "no nickname" folks: We're fine without a nickname (but we'll keep wearing the old nickname). The NCAA (per Goon, and now GFH) seems more than willing to call that bluff with their "no nickname is fine if you're serious; but, if we hear complaints about hearing too much of the old nickname we're coming back at you" stance.I'm willing to say the NCAA is not bluffing on that. Why? It's the same approach they took last time, namely, you can have any nickname you want, but if it's the wrong one in our minds we're coming at you. Neither camp is bluffing. I do agree that the NCAA is absolutely capable of making UND's life a little tougher if the no-nickname option is selected and the fans continue the Fighting Sioux cheers and chants indefinitely. But, I haven't seen anything in the past 3 years suggesting this is not a workable option with the NCAA. I'm guessing the UND admin is soliciting this position from the NCAA to turn up the heat, since neither wants the no-nickname option and both have worked very hard to get rid of the Fighting Sioux name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'm willing to say the NCAA is not bluffing on that. Why? It's the same approach they took last time, namely, you can have any nickname you want, but if it's the wrong one in our minds we're coming at you. And given the NC$$'s well known willingness to change its rules to achieve its desired ends you can bet, no pun intended, that they will do so without much prodding. ("We've received complaints that by not choosing a new nickname you're still abusing, and being hostile toward, some overly-sensitive souls when other schools' fans chant 'Sioux Suck!', so we're going to sanction you as we see fit, and there's nothing you can do about it, lowly member-school.") 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigskyvikes Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 http://www.grandforksherald.com/opinion/letters/3819195-letter-no-nickname-fans-sure-do-sioux-jerseysSomebody finally writes in to further highlight the obvious. Why isn't anyone wearing the interlocking ND in the pictures (one guy has a yard sign I guess) - that is the logo they so desperately want to keep, right? And there is that guy(s) from California, again....... Hmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiSioux Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I am torn. I guess I am in the no nickname camp, but not because I have some illogical belief that we could get Fighting Sioux back, simply because I think the other five names we have to pick from suck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperfan7 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I am torn. I guess I am in the no nickname camp, but not because I have some illogical belief that we could get Fighting Sioux back, simply because I think the other five names we have to pick from suck.What is wrong with Roughriders?!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4evrSIOUX Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Don't get me started....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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