Closing in on Epic Title Drought

[scpa0305]

Of course those are those that hate it when people bring up other coaches and compare their success to Hak. But it just furthers the point that everyone that that thinks Hak should be fired is literally our of their mind.

Look at another NCHC counterpart. Enrico Blasi. Let's look at his career at Miami:

Years at Miami - 16

Regular Season Championships - 3

Conference Tournament Championships - 2

Playoff appearences - 10 Frozen Four appearences - 2

Championship game appearences - 1

National Championships - 0

Also, 5 of the 10 seasons Miami made the NCAA tournament, they failed to win a game. Do you think they are screaming for Blasi's head in Oxford? Just trying to put things in perspective when you consider the success of other coaches in college hockey.

To open up, I do not want Hak fired however I am getting frustrated with our April record.

Ok so that's straight. How many nattys has Miami won ever? Respectfully, some of these comparisons are terrible. Also, please stop comparing nfl qbs to a coaching position. Which great nfl coach never won the big one? And when I say great I mean great. And, what would make those coaches great? Again, I remain confident with Hak but every knows coaches go down for their titles. He'll get his.

[squirtcoach]

No kidding.

The biggest folly with the regression to the mean argument is that it applies both ways; Hakstol should have won at least 25% of UND's 7 most recent frozen fours. Put another way, Hakstol should have at least one, if not two, titles by now.

You would not believe how many intelligent people would bet the odds are in favor the next spin finds the ball lands on black, or that you can use linear regression to predict future events. I wouldn't even use a UPL to predict whether a team will win. Now KRACH, on the other hand...

[dagies]

“You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.”   W. Gretzky (attributed anyway)

 

Or

 

Why I'll take my chances with the guy who gets me there consistently

[green_sioux]

 Not trying to be snotty to all of us 4^th line Bantam B’s out there who know an awful lot about hockey, but,  for me, I was extremely proud of our hockey team’s effort and focus in Boston.  If only Coach Hakstol would have thought of telling our guys to not hit those crossbars.  I don’t know what he was thinking there.  He has to learn to “adjust” like many of us 4^th liners realize and mix it up a little and hit some posts instead.

Seriously, part of what is going on is the era we are in.  As a parallel, it reminds me of the glory years of GF high school hockey where it was almost a gimme that Central and later Central or Red River would win the state title.  Little by little, the state caught up..   It wasn’t that GF high school hockey started being unable to “win the big one” routinely, it was more of a case of the rest of the state catching up.  I think that is part of it what has happened in college hockey.   College hockey has improved and the depth and quality of teams have expanded from the Gino days and probably even the Deano days at UND.  The era we are in and the format of college hockey playoffs makes it impressive what UND hockey has accomplished in the last decade.  Getting to the Frozen Four means you’ve first made the NCAA playoffs and then slugged your way through a tough regional field and earned 2 more tough. single elimination, post season wins.   Then it’s one and done in the Frozen Four.  The 4 teams that make it all have realistic hope of winning it all…even teams like Union, Yale, Providence.   It becomes the dreaded one and done.   All of us as Sioux fans expect us to win it when we make the FF, but that’s easy to expect as a fan sitting in my man cave and reminiscing about my glory days of almost getting some playing time on the 4^th line back in the Bantam years.   My “expectations” don’t cost me anything.  It’s very easy to have them and “expect” more.  The game is so easy in Hi-Def from my couch.

I talked to 2 players on this year’s team today.  You could still hear the emotion in their voices and the love for the UND hockey program.   They talked about giving their all in Boston and how tough it was for them to come up short.  They talked about a bounce here, a call there and maybe the outcome could have been different.  But, they were satisfied the loss wasn’t due to effort, or strategy, or game plan or an adjustment issues.  I can’t print what they said about that.  They said every game is a cat and mouse affair between coaching staffs and players.   One of them said, “you don’t out coach someone in April. “ No one if fooling anybody at that point in the season.  They both said it was an execution and performance issue between 2 really good squads.  One of them even mentioned that they occasionally look at SSports hockey forum and are amazed at what he sees here at times.  He said he loves the fans and are in awe of how they travel, but he said he had to stop reading the Hockey forum some time ago.

These players, and the players on 15 of the 16 teams in the NCAA’s realize how little the difference is between making the NCAAs and winning the Frozen Four.  The players on all 16 teams are desperately giving their all.   But, some folks on here “know” more and piously “expect” more. Easy to do and at no cost.  BU fans expected a win and look what happened.   The game happened.  These Frozen Four games aren’t a Serge Gambucci type automatic win.  College hockey has gotten too good.  For me, in my old age, I will just continue to cherish how blessed we are to have a program like we do and leave it at that. 

[Cratter]

Let me clarify the bolded portion: We got spoiled, and now statistics are catching up.

You really dont believe this right? This is not gambling.

UND isnt going 1-7 because they had "better luck" 15 years ago.

[dagies]

Regarding the comparison of Hakstol with Woog, and Woog's ultimate demise. 

 

Woog had a nice run without winning a national championship, but his demise wasn't about not winning the NCAA's, it was because it became clear the D1 game had moved beyond him.  Woog recruited only MN players (with only the most rare exception) and recruited (and was very successful) in an era when he could cherry pick the best MN players and they would come straight from high school.  No juniors.

 

Times changed faster than Woog changed, and he went from very good results to a couple of years of average to below average results, and didn't exhibit any signs of adapting to the change in times.

That's what lead to his demise.

 

Hakstol's situation is not analogous to Woog's.  At least not yet.   Hakstol has adapted to a different style of team/play, and he's still pulling in excellent recruits.  His teams and players still develop and get better throughout the year and their careers.

 

If that changes, then I'll be more ready to accept an argument that it's time to move along.   But I don't see a need to be concerned for the future.

[MafiaMan]

Great post, green _sioux. I might add that BU was an overtime goal by Yale away from being eliminated in the 1st round! In fact, I thought they outplayed BU gor about 3/4 of that opening round game. THAT's how thin the margin for error is these days.

[siouxfan512]

Point plain and simple

When haks teams dt to the big show

They don't perform

Maybe espn 2 and real espn gets to Hak

You are a moron, despite the score they outperformed BU. They were the better team. BUT being the better team doesn't always win you the hockey game. Puck lucK, hot goalies, etc. A team can play well and lose, we have seen it before.

[fightingsioux4life]

You are a moron, despite the score they outperformed BU. They were the better team. BUT being the better team doesn't always win you the hockey game. Puck lucK, hot goalies, etc. A team can play well and lose, we have seen it before.

"Puck Luck" and "Hot Goalies" haven't stopped Boston College from winning 4 titles in a span of 15 years.  This is about getting it done when it counts and this program just hasn't done that.  That doesn't mean we won't the next couple of years, but you just don't know how many Frozen Four trips you will get.  That is what makes these failures so hard to swallow.

[fightingsioux4life]

 Not trying to be snotty to all of us 4^th line Bantam B’s out there who know an awful lot about hockey, but,  for me, I was extremely proud of our hockey team’s effort and focus in Boston.  If only Coach Hakstol would have thought of telling our guys to not hit those crossbars.  I don’t know what he was thinking there.  He has to learn to “adjust” like many of us 4^th liners realize and mix it up a little and hit some posts instead.

Seriously, part of what is going on is the era we are in.  As a parallel, it reminds me of the glory years of GF high school hockey where it was almost a gimme that Central and later Central or Red River would win the state title.  Little by little, the state caught up..   It wasn’t that GF high school hockey started being unable to “win the big one” routinely, it was more of a case of the rest of the state catching up.  I think that is part of it what has happened in college hockey.   College hockey has improved and the depth and quality of teams have expanded from the Gino days and probably even the Deano days at UND.  The era we are in and the format of college hockey playoffs makes it impressive what UND hockey has accomplished in the last decade.  Getting to the Frozen Four means you’ve first made the NCAA playoffs and then slugged your way through a tough regional field and earned 2 more tough. single elimination, post season wins.   Then it’s one and done in the Frozen Four.  The 4 teams that make it all have realistic hope of winning it all…even teams like Union, Yale, Providence.   It becomes the dreaded one and done.   All of us as Sioux fans expect us to win it when we make the FF, but that’s easy to expect as a fan sitting in my man cave and reminiscing about my glory days of almost getting some playing time on the 4^th line back in the Bantam years.   My “expectations” don’t cost me anything.  It’s very easy to have them and “expect” more.  The game is so easy in Hi-Def from my couch.

I talked to 2 players on this year’s team today.  You could still hear the emotion in their voices and the love for the UND hockey program.   They talked about giving their all in Boston and how tough it was for them to come up short.  They talked about a bounce here, a call there and maybe the outcome could have been different.  But, they were satisfied the loss wasn’t due to effort, or strategy, or game plan or an adjustment issues.  I can’t print what they said about that.  They said every game is a cat and mouse affair between coaching staffs and players.   One of them said, “you don’t out coach someone in April. “ No one if fooling anybody at that point in the season.  They both said it was an execution and performance issue between 2 really good squads.  One of them even mentioned that they occasionally look at SSports hockey forum and are amazed at what he sees here at times.  He said he loves the fans and are in awe of how they travel, but he said he had to stop reading the Hockey forum some time ago.

These players, and the players on 15 of the 16 teams in the NCAA’s realize how little the difference is between making the NCAAs and winning the Frozen Four.  The players on all 16 teams are desperately giving their all.   But, some folks on here “know” more and piously “expect” more. Easy to do and at no cost.  BU fans expected a win and look what happened.   The game happened.  These Frozen Four games aren’t a Serge Gambucci type automatic win.  College hockey has gotten too good.  For me, in my old age, I will just continue to cherish how blessed we are to have a program like we do and leave it at that. 

Players and coaches shouldn't read fan forums at all, period.  There is nothing to be gained from doing that.

[gfhockey]

So ur telling me we always run in to a hot goalie always never have puck luck etc

How do other teams have those ?

[Irish]

Regarding the comparison of Hakstol with Woog, and Woog's ultimate demise. 

 

Woog had a nice run without winning a national championship, but his demise wasn't about not winning the NCAA's, it was because it became clear the D1 game had moved beyond him.  Woog recruited only MN players (with only the most rare exception) and recruited (and was very successful) in an era when he could cherry pick the best MN players and they would come straight from high school.  No juniors.

 

Times changed faster than Woog changed, and he went from very good results to a couple of years of average to below average results, and didn't exhibit any signs of adapting to the change in times.

That's what lead to his demise.

 

Hakstol's situation is not analogous to Woog's.  At least not yet.   Hakstol has adapted to a different style of team/play, and he's still pulling in excellent recruits.  His teams and players still develop and get better throughout the year and their careers.

 

If that changes, then I'll be more ready to accept an argument that it's time to move along.   But I don't see a need to be concerned for the future.

A well though-out post.  At this point we are all wandering in the wilderness trying to make sense of a frustrating streak.  

[snova4]

Players and coaches shouldn't read fan forums at all, period. There is nothing to be gained from doing that.

That's your response to hearing that the players are affected by what's said on this forum? Is that they should stay off? Man, that's crazy. I would love to interact with these guys and hear their thoughts on the game if they were up to it.

[MafiaMan]

"Puck Luck" and "Hot Goalies" haven't stopped Boston College from winning 4 titles in a span of 15 years.

No puck luck at all for BC?

2001: UND clanks an OT shot off the pipe or crosbar (I forget which) seconds before the Krys Kolanos game-winner.

2008: Michigan was on fire that year before losing to a cinderella Notre Dame (a team that hadn't beaten Michigan all season) in the semi-finals. CCHA champs. CCHA playoff champs. 33-5-4 before the Notre Dame Frozen Four loss. The Irish put up a pretty good fight but were no match for the Eagles.

2012: Ferris State upsets Union in the semi-finals and advances to play BC. Let's be realistic - unless that was a 2-1 or 1-0 game, the Bulldogs were not going to win it. Again, BC far-and-away the better team in the title game.

2010 was the only year I recall where BC was a no-doubter in the Frozen Four, steamrolling Miami 7-1 in the semi-finals and Wisconsin 5-0 in the championship.

[shep]

This discussion goes the same way each year with lots of the same points.

To be clear, I don't know that the next guy is gonna win a Title right away. No one does, but it's not like we haven't given Hak a heckuva fair chance and while he's come close, we don't hang Final Four banners at the Ralph. If he goes 20 years without a Title but still gets us to the Final Four is that good enough? 25?

For those who think we are crazy to even want a change just consider how you'd feel if the next guy went 11 without a Title. You'd be wanting him canned in 5.

Hak has had a fair shot, I believe he is a great coach, but he just doesn't bring that intangible that gets his teams the big one. I don't know what it is, but he doesn't have it.

[siouxkid12]

While I sit here and watch the replay of the championship game I notice that the last 3 FF winners have one thing in common. UND needs to go back to wearing Gemini jerseys.....

[UND1983]

While I sit here and watch the replay of the championship game I notice that the last 3 FF winners have one thing in common. UND needs to go back to wearing Gemini jerseys.....

There we have it. Finally....the answer everyone has been looking for!

[Benny Baker]

No puck luck at all for BC?

2001: UND clanks an OT shot off the pipe or crosbar (I forget which) seconds before the Krys Kolanos game-winner.

2008: Michigan was on fire that year before losing to a cinderella Notre Dame (a team that hadn't beaten Michigan all season) in the semi-finals. CCHA champs. CCHA playoff champs. 33-5-4 before the Notre Dame Frozen Four loss. The Irish put up a pretty good fight but were no match for the Eagles.

2012: Ferris State upsets Union in the semi-finals and advances to play BC. Let's be realistic - unless that was a 2-1 or 1-0 game, the Bulldogs were not going to win it. Again, BC far-and-away the better team in the title game.

2010 was the only year I recall where BC was a no-doubter in the Frozen Four, steamrolling Miami 7-1 in the semi-finals and Wisconsin 5-0 in the championship.

Let's all be honest.  Isn't the idea of "puck luck" really more of an excuse than reality?

 

As for 2001, the Sioux hit a post.  But I also remember the Sioux being down 2-0 with a couple minutes left and relying on two miraculous extra attacker goals in the waning seconds of the game in order to even reach overtime.  Hell of game that was, and if it exists, "puck luck" goes both ways.

 

That's a rather broad view of "puck luck" in 2008.  A team has puck luck because some higher seeded team lost to some other team in the same tournament?  So the Sioux got a little bit of puck luck in Fargo because they played St. Cloud?

 

You conceded that 2010 had nothing to do with puck luck.  Neither did 2012.  Boston College was the number 1 overall seed and steamrolled to its 4th title in 15 years by winning its tournament games 2-0, 4-0, 6-1, and 4-1.  A lower ranked Union team would have suffered the same fate as Ferris State.

 

 

Let's all be honest again.  Boston College is in a class of its own, at least over the last 15 years.

[The Sicatoka]

"Puck Luck" and "Hot Goalies" haven't stopped Boston College from winning 4 titles in a span of 15 years.

Ah yes, how soon they forget the "BC curse" that ran long and hard before that ... from 1949 to 2001. Yes folks, half a century.

Those 4 in 15 years are the Central Limit Theorem balancing out the statistical scales.

Another thought: Maybe BC left the curse with UND in Albany in 2001.

[MafiaMan]

Let's all be honest. Isn't the idea of "puck luck" really more of an excuse than reality?

As for 2001, the Sioux hit a post. But I also remember the Sioux being down 2-0 with a couple minutes left and relying on two miraculous extra attacker goals in the waning seconds of the game in order to even reach overtime. Hell of game that was, and if it exists, "puck luck" goes both ways.

That's a rather broad view of "puck luck" in 2008. A team has puck luck because some higher seeded team lost to some other team in the same tournament?

Why don't you ask UMD if they wish they'd gotten UND in the 2011 title game as opposed to Michigan. I'm guessing they were quite happy to see NoDak lose in the semi-finals.

Or, better yet, check with the 1997 Sioux team and ask if they REALLY thought they would have taken down Michigan or if there was a sense of relief when BU did it for them in the semi-finals.

[Benny Baker]

Why don't you ask UMD if they wish they'd gotten UND in the 2011 title game as opposed to Michigan. I'm guessing they were quite happy to see NoDak lose in the semi-finals.

Or, better yet, check with the 1997 Sioux team and ask if they REALLY thought they would have taken down Michigan or if there was a sense of relief when BU did it for them in the semi-finals.

And the entire NCAA field had "puck luck" this year when Minnesota State went down in round 1 and ensured everyone an easier route to the NCAA title!

[GDPritch]

I think the Grant comparison is pretty fair outside of the fact that football coaches have much more control over the outcomes of games than hockey coaches do.

 

I don't agree with the Mack Brown comparison though.  It was pretty clear that Mack had reached the end of his coaching career before he left.  He was in his sixties and hadn't won any conference hardware in 4 years.  Mack is also in a sport where even the best players play 3 years in college and there is not any alternative routes like there is in football like their is in hockey with juniors.  Plus that school pretty much recruits itself and always has.

 

Hak is still in his mid-40s and he's seems to continually be growing as a coach year after year.  I don't think we have seen his best yet and that could be scary good for us.

I've said it once here, I'll say it again, it's still easier for a dominant/better football team (yes, there are exceptions sometimes e.g. turnovers) to win 1 game versus an inferior opponent than it is for such a hockey team to do the same against the other team in one game. That's why college hockey hould be playing more than one game to determine a champion, just like the NCAA does in baseball.  It would be ludicrous to have college baseball teams play a one game "series" in their world series (which they don't) based on the nature/dynamics of the sport, no different than hockey.  

[GDPritch]

Their coaching history says otherwise and that you are completely 100% wrong.  Once they get to the big game they get sprinkles on their dessert.  

Yep, blame Haks "coaching"  despite Zane letting in two or three goals he wish he had back and our players hitting two pipes in a dominant 2nd period.  Yep, all Hak's fault, poor coaching.

[GDPritch]

Eli Manning or Payton Manning....Who you picking?

Brett Favre or Trent Dilfer.....Who you picking?

Peyton and Favre are both the better QB's, no doubt.  Great point you make.

[GDPritch]

If he and his blue-chip teammates are not better than Union's or Providence's players when it counts why do we keep saying that UND recruits so well?  What is the problem if we are getting so many high end, blue-chip kids year after year after year?

For the 23rd fricking time, college hockey is one and done!  The NCAA doesn't do that in college baseball world series and for good reason.  One game doesn't always prove anything.