The Nickel Trophy

[dmksioux]

Sorry but you lose your credibility when you state that it was UND that ended.the rivalry. But that's another tired discussion the FU fans love to come here and discuss. As far as the Nickel Trophy the record shows which school is the dominent one within the state.

But he's actually right. I don't buy the "NDSU" ended the rivalry when they chose to move up argument. They made the right move for them and wanted to continue the series. We (UND), chose not to. You can argue the reasons why, some legit, some not, but the bottom line is UND made the decision to not play the game. Personally I think it was the wrong decision even though it had the potential to hurt our playoff chances. UND should have attempted to keep the rivalry going, unless it got to the point that the outcome was too lopsided and the scholarship difference became apparent. This is all my opinion of course, except for the part where UND chose to not play NDSU due to playoff implications.

[Hayduke]

But he's actually right. I don't buy the "NDSU" ended the rivalry when they chose to move up argument. They made the right move for them and wanted to continue the series. We (UND), chose not to. You can argue the reasons why, some legit, some not, but the bottom line is UND made the decision to not play the game. Personally I think it was the wrong decision even though it had the potential to hurt our playoff chances. UND should have attempted to keep the rivalry going, unless it got to the point that the outcome was too lopsided and the scholarship difference became apparent. This is all my opinion of course, except for the part where UND chose to not play NDSU due to playoff implications.

\

This is correct. UND ended the game.

But, to be honest, UND and the University of Agriculture and Applied Sciences should have moved up years before.

[CMSioux]

Everyone's allowed their opinion but these are facts:

FU left the conference

FU left the division

By leaving the division FU gained more scholarships than UND putting the game on an unlevel playing field

At the time there were NCAA penalties in place for playing a team from an upper division - penalities that impacted making the playoff and hosting playoff games

Of course FU wanted to continue the rivalry they had been beaten down for 10 years and now had the upper hand not only in number of scholarships but also now they were able to attract a higher level of athlete, also they were struggling for games - why wouldn't they want the game to continue they had everything to win and nothing to lose

UND had a full conference schedule and the opportunity to make the playoffs - why should UND have risked injuries, home field advantage in the playoffs to play a game that was actually going to hurt their playoff opportunities no matter if they won the game or lost it. (same argument FU used to not schedule UND years later by the way).

Yes UND could have scheduled the game but the reasons for ending the rivalry were put in place by FU.

[dmksioux]

Everyone's allowed their opinion but these are facts:

FU left the conference

FU left the division

By leaving the division FU gained more scholarships than UND putting the game on an unlevel playing field

At the time there were NCAA penalties in place for playing a team from an upper division - penalities that impacted making the playoff and hosting playoff games

Of course FU wanted to continue the rivalry they had been beaten down for 10 years and now had the upper hand not only in number of scholarships but also now they were able to attract a higher level of athlete, also they were struggling for games - why wouldn't they want the game to continue they had everything to win and nothing to lose

UND had a full conference schedule and the opportunity to make the playoffs - why should UND have risked injuries, home field advantage in the playoffs to play a game that was actually going to hurt their playoff opportunities no matter if they won the game or lost it. (same argument FU used to not schedule UND years later by the way).

Yes UND could have scheduled the game but the reasons for ending the rivalry were put in place by FU.

Here we go again - this thread should be renamed "Tired Arguments"

Couldn't the same be said about scheduling FBS games? Those teams have more scholarships, chances are we would lose, and we risk injury in those games (just as we do in every game...see Braden Hanson in the Mines game). To me those are all lame arguments when it came to a 100+year rivalry with NDSU. Any other school fine, but not NDSU. As I said, continue the series until it becomes apparent that the scholarship level/athletes they are recruiting translates to a dominance on the field.

I understand what your getting at, just don't agree. The fact remains that UND had the chance to sign the contract and chose not to.

[Siouxperman8]

Couldn't the same be said about scheduling FBS games? Those teams have more scholarships, chances are we would lose, and we risk injury in those games (just as we do in every game...see Braden Hanson in the Mines game). To me those are all lame arguments when it came to a 100+year rivalry with NDSU. Any other school fine, but not NDSU. As I said, continue the series until it becomes apparent that the scholarship level/athletes they are recruiting translates to a dominance on the field.

I understand what your getting at, just don't agree. The fact remains that UND had the chance to sign the contract and chose not to.

The decision was very simple to make at the time. It hurt our playoff chances if we played them.

This is from memory but my recollection is that NDSU saw that in one of their last couple of years in DII. They beat Montana (I believe) that was defending I-AA National Champs and that game kept them out of the playoffs. If they had played and even lost to UM Crookston instead they would have made the playoffs.

Should we have played NDSU when we knew it would hurt our playoff chances even by beating them? That is an easy decision to make when looking at what is best for our program. The rest doesn't matter after that.

NDSU can make the same argument now and that's fine but there is no way we should have kept playing them based on the rules at the time.

[dmksioux]

The decision was very simple to make at the time. It hurt our playoff chances if we played them.

This is from memory but my recollection is that NDSU saw that in one of their last couple of years in DII. They beat Montana (I believe) that was defending I-AA National Champs and that game kept them out of the playoffs. If they had played and even lost to UM Crookston instead they would have made the playoffs.

Should we have played NDSU when we knew it would hurt our playoff chances even by beating them? That is an easy decision to make when looking at what is best for our program. The rest doesn't matter after that.

NDSU can make the same argument now and that's fine but there is no way we should have kept playing them based on the rules at the time.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you wrote, even though my personal opinion is different. I understand the reasons UND chose not to play the game amd as I said, some of those reasons are legit. I was simply stating the fact that UND was the one who chose not to sign the contract, which ended the series. Flash forward and now UND wants to restart the series and NDSU doesn't...primarily for reasons that aren't legit. Nothing more for me to add to this thread....at least at this point, so carry on. :-)

[CMSioux]

Yah and my neighbor chose to end her marriage by signing the divorce papers but it was her husbands actions that created the situation. We can agree to disagree and also know we will be perpetually living with the revisionist history of the FU faithful - especially the ones that have moved on and don't care about the rivalry anymore

[CMSioux]

The decision was very simple to make at the time. It hurt our playoff chances if we played them.

This is from memory but my recollection is that NDSU saw that in one of their last couple of years in DII. They beat Montana (I believe) that was defending I-AA National Champs and that game kept them out of the playoffs. If they had played and even lost to UM Crookston instead they would have made the playoffs.

Should we have played NDSU when we knew it would hurt our playoff chances even by beating them? That is an easy decision to make when looking at what is best for our program. The rest doesn't matter after that.

NDSU can make the same argument now and that's fine but there is no way we should have kept playing them based on the rules at the time.

Wasn' it Northern Alabama that lost a hosting opportunity and had to go on the road (to UND) and it came down to a game they played and won against a FSC team?

[tjamz]

There was nothing preventing UND from moving up at the same time.... other than a belief that it was a bad idea and that neither school would be competitive at that level. Fast forward just a couple years and add the success of ndsu and sdsu and und/USD both saw the light. Like I said, I'm not bitter about UND's decision to stop the rivalry (or rather not sign the contract to renew). I can admit that ndsu's decision to move up was the cause, but comparing it to a cheating relationship is inaccurate. It's more like the husband found a new job in a new town that paid better with more benefits but the wife divorced him because she didn't want to leave the one horse town they grew up in.... then after a couple years saw that her husband was successful so she came crawling back wanting to rekindle what they once had. But he had a new ring on his finger and wanted nothing to do with his old flame.

[jdub27]

There was nothing preventing UND from moving up at the same time.... other than a belief that it was a bad idea and that neither school would be competitive at that level. Fast forward just a couple years and add the success of ndsu and sdsu and und/USD both saw the light. Like I said, I'm not bitter about UND's decision to stop the rivalry (or rather not sign the contract to renew). I can admit that ndsu's decision to move up was the cause, but comparing it to a cheating relationship is inaccurate. It's more like the husband found a new job in a new town that paid better with more benefits but the wife divorced him because she didn't want to leave the one horse town they grew up in.... then after a couple years saw that her husband was successful so she came crawling back wanting to rekindle what they once had. But he had a new ring on his finger and wanted nothing to do with his old flame.

I'm not so certain UND had the funds in place at the time to support a move. I'm also not sure that NDSU did either, but they took a leap of faith and it worked out well for them.

[Sodbuster]

Yah and my neighbor chose to end her marriage by signing the divorce papers but it was her husbands actions that created the situation. We can agree to disagree and also know we will be perpetually living with the revisionist history of the FU faithful - especially the ones that have moved on and don't care about the rivalry anymore

The ones that don't care about the rivalry..........where do those two guys live nowadays?

[tjamz]

The ones that don't care about the rivalry..........where do those two guys live nowadays?

I care about it for historical/nostalgic reasons. But I have no desire at all to restart it (to me it'd be like hooking up with my ex-wife again)

[UNDColorado]

In the past i have been so-so about rekindling the rivalry, but after watching the fire and ice clip again I find myself wanting to see the game again. Do we play for the Nickel Trophy? Probably not, but that is debatable.

The ideal situation would be for UND to make the playoffs and face off against NDSU. I think that event alone would spark a resurgence in both fan bases to get something going again. This would be the hottest game in FCS playoffs regardless of what round it is.

Funny thing here that i can't get over is that both schools are 70 miles apart and yet even though it has proven very difficult to to build an ideal FCS schedule, they don't play. I understand the history but this has to be odd from an outsider looking in...

[UNDColorado]

I care about it for historical/nostalgic reasons. But I have no desire at all to restart it (to me it'd be like hooking up with my ex-wife again)

That's pretty funny. I haven't heard anyone liken restarting the rivalry to that...well played sir.

[108498]

Has no one seen the historic film on the rival. Not restarting the match-up in a new way would be crazy. Ok don't use the coin and don't call it a rival, but play the game. Everyone will be amazed we didn't start up sooner when we do.

[tjamz]

That's pretty funny. I haven't heard anyone liken restarting the rivalry to that...well played sir.

Thanks. I come here to have fun and poke a little fun. There's seldom an issue I won't debate (I could argue either side of almost any argument) I just like to see fresh objections rather than rehashed crap over and over (from BOTH fan bases)

[JohnboyND7]

Has no one seen the historic film on the rival. Not restarting the match-up in a new way would be crazy. Ok don't use the coin and don't call it a rival, but play the game. Everyone will be amazed we didn't start up sooner when we do.

Seen it. Understand both sides of the coin, no pun intended. I am fine with how things are. Supercharged meetings in the playoffs are fine by me for now.

[Siouxperman8]

Wasn' it Northern Alabama that lost a hosting opportunity and had to go on the road (to UND) and it came down to a game they played and won against a FSC team?

In 2003 NDSU finished 8-3 with a win against #3 I-AA Montana. They didn't make the DII playoffs and the reason given was that the win against Montana kept them out based on the rules at the time. The NCAA was trying to encourage teams to play within their same division for some reason.

[darell1976]

Does anyone play for a trophy in OOC games? Because I only want the Nickel played (if they allow the Nickel out of retirement) when UND and NDSU are in the same conference.

[bison73]

Is there a way to order this on DVD?

http://www.amazon.com/Football-America/dp/B001UP46BS/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1376872472&sr=1-2&keywords=vhs+football+america

[darell1976]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/426000/

“It never stays in one place for an extended period of time,” Faison said. “It moves around occasionally on campus and perhaps sometimes in town. We feel it’s our responsibility to protect it.”

The Nickel Trophy hasn’t left Grand Forks since it traveled around the state as part of UND’s 125th anniversary celebration in 2008, Faison said.

“It’s been pretty much out of sight since,” he said, before taking it out of hiding for a news photographer.

Why not have it in the Alerus on display with the Sitting Bull Trophy?

Jeff Kolpack, the NDSU football beat writer for The Forum of Fargo-Moorhead, said there is no appetite for hi-jinks because a UND-NDSU football rivalry no longer exists.

“Most NDSU students don’t even know what the Nickel Trophy is,” Kolpack said. “If you walked around campus and asked, 90 percent wouldn’t know what you’re talking about.

“You could advertise in (NDSU’s student newspaper) that the Nickel is sitting in the lobby of the union and I don’t think anyone would bother to pay for the gas to steal it.”

A rivalry renewal debate

There is some sentiment from NDSU precincts of reviving the rivalry. For instance, Bison senior wide receiver Ryan Smith, from Wahpeton, sparked a debate last week with a tweet about him missing out by not being able to play against UND.

He tweeted: “So why does Missouri State get to face UND and we don’t? Bring the true rivalry back to the dome! #nickel.”

Response to Smith’s tweet was mixed. Some, siding with Smith, wanted UND back on the NDSU schedule. Others expressed a sentiment shared with Leah Oye: “Let UND sweat it out a few more years. They wanted it over, (so) let them grovel a little more to get it back.”

Kolpack is correct...NDSU is over us.

[UND-FB-FAN]

http://www.inforum.c...icle/id/426000/

Why not have it in the Alerus on display with the Sitting Bull Trophy?

Kolpack is correct...NDSU is over us.

I'm going to revisit this ridiculous topic again only in minor detail. In my opinion, the game not being played annually is nothing more than complete childish behavior on the part of Gene Taylor. There also is a sense of entitlement and arrogance in Fargo that prevents it from getting done. If/when NDSU sinks back down to mediocrity over the next few years, the game will hopefully look more appealing to Ag School AD employees.

Otherwise, the focus will need to be on us (UND). NDSU-topics are the only school-related topics that spark debate with the UND-faithful other than UND-centered topics themselves (realistically, other "rival schools", such as Montana and Montana State, haven't got there yet). If that in itself doesn't persuade individuals that the rivalry is a sleeping giant, then I don't know what will.

As far as Kolpack goes, he's nothing more than an NDSU die-hard in the Fargo media. There's absolutely zero neutrality with him. Nearly ANY student currently at NDSU from North Dakota would know about the [former] UND-NDSU rivalry and the Nickel Trophy. As a North Dakota resident, I know the rivalry talk still goes on strong within the state, and I presume most 18-22 year old North Dakota kids are also well informed of the rivalry.

[BAT67]

I'm going to revisit this ridiculous topic again only in minor detail. In my opinion, the game not being played annually is nothing more than complete childish behavior on the part of Gene Taylor. There also is a sense of entitlement and arrogance in Fargo that prevents it from getting done. If/when NDSU sinks back down to mediocrity over the next few years, the game will hopefully look more appealing to Ag School AD employees.

Otherwise, the focus will need to be on us (UND). NDSU-topics are the only school-related topics that spark debate with the UND-faithful other than UND-centered topics themselves (realistically, other "rival schools", such as Montana and Montana State, haven't got there yet). If that in itself doesn't persuade individuals that the rivalry is a sleeping giant, than I don't know what will.

As far as Kolpack goes, he's nothing more than an NDSU die-hard in the Fargo media. There's absolutely zero neutrality with him. Nearly ANY student currently at NDSU from North Dakota would know about the [former] UND-NDSU rivalry and the Nickel Trophy. As a North Dakota resident, I know the rivalry talk still goes on strong within the state, and I presume most 18-22 year old North Dakota kids are also well informed of the rivalry.

I am wondering how this is gene taylors fault this blame is shared by both schools in my opinion and as far as the sleeping giant I agree I can remember the state shut down for a few hours lets get it rolling again as a bison fan I would love to see the dome or the alerus packed to the gils with the fever that was going on when they played yrs ago

[darell1976]

I am wondering how this is gene taylors fault this blame is shared by both schools in my opinion and as far as the sleeping giant I agree I can remember the state shut down for a few hours lets get it rolling again as a bison fan I would love to see the dome or the alerus packed to the gils with the fever that was going on when they played yrs ago

In 2004 UND cut ties with both the SU's when they moved up since then SDSU has played UND in every sport INCLUDING football, NDSU has played UND in every sport EXCEPT football. Now explain why Gene Taylor can't get UND on a home and home will SDSU, and now USD can? Answer...to scared of the consequences of an upset. Bison fans would have loved to put 50+ on UND's poor defense but he never got the game scheduled. And as for fans not knowing about the Nickel Trophy that's just plain ignorance on Kolpack.

[Hayduke]

I know a way to guarantee a game with the University of Agriculture and Applied Science every year for awhile.

We go FBS. They'd schedule UND to try to try to get another cherry picked FBS win.