The Nickel Trophy

[bang]

3 hours ago, Tangolou said:

It wasn't just Roger Thomas, he had help with Kupchella and Phil Harmeson. UND is still paying for their arrogance and lack of testicles..

I believe this wholeheartedly, Roger doesn’t get a pass but those other are two take just as much of the blame. Kupchella and Roger are great guys that just made a mistake as things turned out. Nobody had a crystal ball I get it. I was in my early mid 20’s and was not about going D1 but I was angry and then some that we weren’t going to play NDSU. 

[Gothmog]

On 10/3/2018 at 4:43 PM, UNDBIZ said:

UND made the responsible choice at the time, but it has proven to be the wrong choice 15 years later.  Hence the use of the word "hindsight" to begin my prior post.

Sometimes the "responsible" choice is the wrong choice. That was the case for UND back then. If RT hadn't been both timid and arrogant at the same time, things might be different for the program now.

UND's handling, first of NDSU's DI move, and then of its own, was indeed a series of screw-ups.

 

[darell1976]

9 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Sometimes the "responsible" choice is the wrong choice. That was the case for UND back then. If RT hadn't been both timid and arrogant at the same time, things might be different for the program now.

UND's handling, first of NDSU's DI move, and then of its own, was indeed a series of screw-ups.

 

So what’s the reason USD didn’t move up? Did RT stronghold them into staying in DII? Boy RT had lots of power. 

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, Gothmog said:

Sometimes the "responsible" choice is the wrong choice.

And sometimes its the right choice. History is littered with plenty of both. 

[Siouxperfan7]

19 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

And sometimes its the right choice. History is littered with plenty of both. 

And sometimes that choice may be right for one and wrong for another.

[darell1976]

28 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

And sometimes its the right choice. History is littered with plenty of both. 

Correct. SDSU moved up with NDSU, just how many FCS titles have they played for? Didn’t they lose to DIII Wisconsin-Lacrosse? They have one win against an FBS team. UND has the same credentials as them, same with USD (not sure if they lost to a lower division team). So who made a better choice? UNC hasn’t done anything in the FCS except get accepted into the Big Sky despite bitching and whining from Bison fans as they were rejected. Was it a good choice for them to move up?  Damn if you do and damn if you don’t. 

[Gothmog]

1 hour ago, darell1976 said:

Correct. SDSU moved up with NDSU, just how many FCS titles have they played for? Didn’t they lose to DIII Wisconsin-Lacrosse? They have one win against an FBS team. UND has the same credentials as them, same with USD (not sure if they lost to a lower division team). So who made a better choice? UNC hasn’t done anything in the FCS except get accepted into the Big Sky despite bitching and whining from Bison fans as they were rejected. Was it a good choice for them to move up?  Damn if you do and damn if you don’t. 

C'mon , do you really doubt that, despite having less success than NDSU in football, SDSU considers its move to DI a resounding success? Can you think of any reason why UND would have been expected to be less successful in FCS football than SDSU apart from the timing and circumstances of the two schools decisions to move to DI? 

[darell1976]

13 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

C'mon , do you really doubt that, despite having less success than NDSU in football, SDSU considers its move to DI a resounding success? Can you think of any reason why UND would have been expected to be less successful in FCS football than SDSU apart from the timing and circumstances of the two schools decisions to move to DI? 

Coaching. 

[Gothmog]

2 hours ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

And sometimes that choice may be right for one and wrong for another.

True, but would you say that UND made the right choice when it decided to not move up with NDSU?

 

[Gothmog]

10 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

Coaching. 

Stiegelmeier has been at SDSU since well before the move. Coaching may partly explain UND's fall, but it does not explain SDSU's rise. 

BTW - wouldn't hiring bad coaches just be one of UND's many DI screw ups?

 

[geaux_sioux]

5 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Stiegelmeier has been at SDSU since well before the move. Coaching may partly explain UND's fall, but it does not explain SDSU's rise. 

BTW - wouldn't hiring bad coaches just be one of UND's many DI screw ups?

 

The issue was budget.

[Gothmog]

2 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

The issue was budget.

And why wasn't there money in the budget? Yet another screw up.

[UND-1]

The UND President didn't take enough money from other departments on campus to make the move work immediately.  Stupid on his part.

[Gothmog]

15 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

The UND President didn't take enough money from other departments on campus to make the move work immediately.  Stupid on his part.

Or they could have planned ahead so there was money available.

[UND-1]

9 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Or they could have planned ahead so there was money available.

UND should've done what NDSU did. But they didn't.

[darell1976]

27 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

UND should've done what NDSU did. But they didn't.

Like crush the women’s sports so their #1 sport will be all the sports that matter...no thanks. We have a sport that some think that’s all that matter, we had to cut the fat with excess sports so we are doing what NDSU is doing...rolling with the minimum amount of sports. We have women’s teams that made the NCAA tournament, we have state of the art playing facilities except softball (unless you count the alerus). I think money wise we did the best we could do with what was available. 

[UNDBIZ]

7 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

Like crush the women’s sports so their #1 sport will be all the sports that matter...no thanks. We have a sport that some think that’s all that matter, we had to cut the fat with excess sports so we are doing what NDSU is doing...rolling with the minimum amount of sports. We have women’s teams that made the NCAA tournament, we have state of the art playing facilities except softball (unless you count the alerus). I think money wise we did the best we could do with what was available. 

He's not talking about cutting funding from other sports.  He's talking about funneling money from dining, housing, and academics to the athletics dept.

[HAWKS1]

I have always thought the when NDSU and SDSU moved up and we didn't was because UND thought of itself as a D! school because Hockey was D1.  They knew that MBB or WBB, Volleyball would never compete for National Titles.  Su's felt winning a conference championship and a 1 and done in BB was as good or better than actually competing for a DII championship.  I know UND has never won a championship in MBB but it was sure fun in the Vonesh and Gulseth days when they were ranked high and played in the elite 8 a few years.  WBB at both UND and NDSU had success in DII but will never compete in DI.

Also, Joe Chapman was upset that UND was winning in football in the late 90's, early 2000's and he wanted to one up UND.  In hindsight, the SU's have a better, more successful move the since UND-USD moved up, but I do think UND-USD will or maybe have caught them, except in football and maybe passed them in women's sports.

 

[Hawkster]

6 minutes ago, HAWKS1 said:

I have always thought the when NDSU and SDSU moved up and we didn't was because UND thought of itself as a D! school because Hockey was D1.  They knew that MBB or WBB, Volleyball would never compete for National Titles.  Su's felt winning a conference championship and a 1 and done in BB was as good or better than actually competing for a DII championship.  I know UND has never won a championship in MBB but it was sure fun in the Vonesh and Gulseth days when they were ranked high and played in the elite 8 a few years.  WBB at both UND and NDSU had success in DII but will never compete in DI.

Also, Joe Chapman was upset that UND was winning in football in the late 90's, early 2000's and he wanted to one up UND.  In hindsight, the SU's have a better, more successful move the since UND-USD moved up, but I do think UND-USD will or maybe have caught them, except in football and maybe passed them in women's sports.

 

I also vaguely recall that Chapman wanted the entired NCC to move together and pretty much everyone except the XDSU's was against the idea.    I think that would have been the route to go really, we would have kept all the old rivalries and everyone would have been starting out on a level playing field.    Granted,  a few of the NCC bottom feeders might have had to stay back, but certainly the rest of the conference could have succeeded.   While I've never been a Chapman fan, that was one time the man had some foresight.

[dakotadan]

To say that all 4 athletic departments were in very different situations in the early 2000s is an understatement. The SUs were the two most similarly situated departments with the most upside for a move. UND had the Ralph and the Al just coming online, women's soccer wasn't that old, was starting women's hockey, then had the Betty coming online. To say UND had a lot of new balls to juggle at the time is an understatement. 

Waiting a few years before taking on a move of the entire athletic department to DI was not a bad decision by any means. UND made the right decision at the time. 

How the administration played it out in the media is a whole nother mistake to discuss. But what does this have to do with UND having rivalry trophies with NDSU and USD? 

[JohnboyND7]

4 hours ago, darell1976 said:

Correct. SDSU moved up with NDSU, just how many FCS titles have they played for? They have one win against an FBS team. UND has the same credentials as them.

Hahahahahahahaha wait...you serious?

[Bison Dan]

13 hours ago, darell1976 said:

Like crush the women’s sports so their #1 sport will be all the sports that matter...no thanks. We have a sport that some think that’s all that matter, we had to cut the fat with excess sports so we are doing what NDSU is doing...rolling with the minimum amount of sports. We have women’s teams that made the NCAA tournament, we have state of the art playing facilities except softball (unless you count the alerus). I think money wise we did the best we could do with what was available. 

Once again 76 your so full of bs it isn't funny.  NDSU women's sports are more fully funded than any und's womens sports.  SB, VB, Soccer,  Track have all enjoyed going to the big show with the track and SB doing really well.  

[UND-1]

13 minutes ago, Bison Dan said:

Once again 76 your so full of bs it isn't funny.  NDSU women's sports are more fully funded than any und's womens sports.  SB, VB, Soccer,  Track have all enjoyed going to the big show with the track and SB doing really well.  

#butsoftballtrack

[darell1976]

1 hour ago, Bison Dan said:

Once again 76 your so full of bs it isn't funny.  NDSU women's sports are more fully funded than any und's womens sports.  SB, VB, Soccer,  Track have all enjoyed going to the big show with the track and SB doing really well.  

You didn’t mention anything about women’s basketball. Also how long ago was Bison VB and soccer in the big show?

 

[UNDColorado]

You all make valid points but I still maintain that the Dakota schools should have gone up in the 70's when the Montana's did.