Measure 4 tv ad

[Hayduke]

Yeah, and multiple people challenged Christopher Columbus when he said the earth is round (not flat). Just because multiple people are on the same page in a particular line of thinking does not mean that they are right.

In the day, people knew the world was round. They just didn't know how big it was and what the route was like to China heading west.

Again, don't let the facts get in the way. However, if you had actually attended the University of North Dakota, you may have known this.

Now, carry on with rant about ketchup/catsup. Or better yet, tell us again how a school doesn't really need sports teams, but if the don't have them at least they'll have a cool logo and nickname for the sports teams they won't have. Then, tell us how you live in a van down by the river.

[Siouxperfan7]

Yeah, and multiple people challenged Christopher Columbus when he said the earth is round (not flat). Just because multiple people are on the same page in a particular line of thinking does not mean that they are right.

So does this mean that you and other "nickname at all costs" people may be wrong? You said it yourself in this post!! So guess what, you could be wrong!! The world is round and keeping the name will hurt UND.

[82SiouxGuy]

http://en.wikipedia...._out_of_context

Do you even know what "out of context" means? You took one sentence out of an entire paragraph, removed the rest of the paragraph and focused all of your attention only on that one sentence alone. By definition, that is out of context. I already explained to multiple times you how the other statement is true. I can't help it if you're too dense (or stubborn) to comprehend.

You told me that I took one sentence out of the paragraph and that I took it out of context. So I brought you the entire paragraph. You providing a Wikipedia definition doesn't prove your point. Hook the sentence that offends you with the sentence before that. It says the same thing. You tried to show that other quality schools don't have athletics. You were wrong. You can't explain that away, everyone on the forum realizes that you made a false statement and you refuse to admit it.

[82SiouxGuy]

So does this mean that you and other "nickname at all costs" people may be wrong? You said it yourself in this post!! So guess what, you could be wrong!! The world is round and keeping the name will hurt UND.

Watch, he will post something about taking his statement out of context; or he will say something about your reading comprehension skills; or he will just insult you. After all, all of us must be wrong, Dave is the visionary in the group.

[Siouxperfan7]

Watch, he will post something about taking his statement out of context; or he will say something about your reading comprehension skills; or he will just insult you. After all, all of us must be wrong, Dave is the visionary in the group.

Dave should have taken the advice that is on the bottom of all your posts:

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

-Abraham Lincoln

American President (1809 - 1865)

[jdub27]

Yes, that's what I told you. I told you that you took one sentence out of the parapgraph and used it out of context because that is exactly what you did. That is a fact. My point was that schools don't need athletics in order to give students a quality education, you tried to twist that around to imply that I offered to give examples of schools that don't have athletics. I never made any such offer. I'll grant you that the concept of having a major college without an athletic dept. is thinking way outside the box, but outside the box or not it could theoretically be done. For you to continue insisting that I give an example is just your way of deflecting. I can now see that I have given you and the rest of the "NCAA affiliation at any cost" crowd way too much of the attention that you seem to crave from me and anybody else who continues to support the good people at Spirit Lake. I support the nickname, I support Spirit Lake, I support the Committee For Understanding and Respect. Therefore, I am voting NO on Measure 4. I don't have to give you or anybody else a reason. I have tried to explain my reasoning but you refuse to accept it. Well, guess what? I don't need your approval. Why am I wasting my time on you? I haven't quite figured that one out yet.

Wrong. Your point was that they could make a statement by doing it AND there are already schools that do this, meaning that is has been shown in the past to be successful. What part of

Some of the finest colleges in the country don't have sports.

does not imply that you are saying there are schools that are already doing this?

You are right that you have not offered to give any examples. But you were asked for some by myself and other because no one can seem to find any of these mythical colleges that are some of the finest in the country without athletics. You are the one deflecting and you are the one who continues to make statements/post other's statements that have lies and misconceptions in them as fact while they are continually proven false to you.

[82SiouxGuy]

Yes, that's what I told you. I told you that you took one sentence out of the parapgraph and used it out of context because that is exactly what you did. That is a fact. My point was that schools don't need athletics in order to give students a quality education, you tried to twist that around to imply that I offered to give examples of schools that don't have athletics. I never made any such offer. I'll grant you that the concept of having a major college without an athletic dept. is thinking way outside the box, but outside the box or not it could theoretically be done. For you to continue insisting that I give an example is just your way of deflecting. I can now see that I have given you and the rest of the "NCAA affiliation at any cost" crowd way too much of the attention that you seem to crave from me and anybody else who continues to support the good people at Spirit Lake. I support the nickname, I support Spirit Lake, I support the Committee For Understanding and Respect. Therefore, I am voting NO on Measure 4. I don't have to give you or anybody else a reason. I have tried to explain my reasoning but you refuse to accept it. Well, guess what? I don't need your approval. Why am I wasting my time on you? I haven't quite figured that one out yet.

As jdub pointed out, the point that you were making in the statement, as well as the paragraph it was part of, was that other schools have done it. You didn't offer to give examples. But you made a blanket statement and we have offered you multiple opportunities to either provide the information or admit that the statement wasn't accurate. You realize that your statement was wrong so you try to avoid the subject by saying that we have taken the statement out of context. It's all right to admit that something wasn't correct.

[Hawkster]

That's not what I was referring to, and I think you're smart enough to know that.

I quoted you word for word, exactly as you said it. Besides, catsup and ketchup both are exactly the same, just like the Fighting Sioux and the Wild Nokotas are exactly the same.

[Hayduke]

I quoted you word for word, exactly as you said it. Besides, catsup and ketchup both are exactly the same, just like the Fighting Sioux and the Wild Nokotas are exactly the same.

To repeat myself, I think we should have the vote put to the student athlete, the only ones who are actually "The Fighting Sioux". Let them decide if they should drop the nickname.

No doubt they would. In a heartbeat. Not because they hate the name, but they wish for their athletic department and their respective programs to survive, and thrive. They all, every one of them, know that even if they survive by keeping the Fighting Sioux name, they by no means will thrive. It will be quite the opposite.

Do it for the athletes, the ones who go by the moniker "The Fighting Sioux". Drop the name. Vote yes.

End the madness.

[108498]

Most athlets do not live for the sioux. Most would play for someone else if they did not get a spot in grand forks. Most sioux fans are fans for life for or against the continuation of thename. Let the people vote.

[Hayduke]

Most athlets do not live for the sioux. Most would play for someone else if they did not get a spot in grand forks. Most sioux fans are fans for life for or against the continuation of thename. Let the people vote.

Why?

I don't get sanctioned if I wear my Sioux jersey. I can wear it anywhere I want. Imagine if I got sanctioned for wearing it? If I was told I couldn't wear it in a certain restaurant, or when I go to a movie. Or, because I am a Fighting Sioux fan, I am denied certain employment opportunities due to use of the name in attachment to myself. I decide to go bowling, and there is a sign saying, "If you are a Fighting Sioux fan, you can't bowl here." I decide to have a party at my house and invite some friends, but the police come by and say that I can't do it because I am a Fighting Sioux fan, therefore the party cannot be held at my home. Take it on the road to someone elses house. Then I find out that other people choose not to be Fighting Sioux fans because they don't want the same treatment.

Guess, what? None of this is true for the fan. None of it. The fans are not affected in the way the athlete is affected. Its not even close.

I know these are extreme examples, but the athletes that we have are limited in their options. They can't play certain teams who have shunned them due to their nickname. They can't host NCAA tournament event because of a name assigned to them. They find out that this other athlete, who would have been a great addition to their team, has decided to go elsewhere to avoid these restrictions. They know that ultimately, because of this name assigned to them by people that are not affected in the least by the nickname, they are screwed.

Why shouldn't the athletes, the only ones who are actually "The Fighting Sioux" have a say in this?

[JohnboyND7]

Why shouldn't the athletes, the only ones who are actually "The Fighting Sioux" have a say in this?

Because the results would make the nickname supporters claim that "Kelley and Faison said they'd revoke the scholarship of any student-athlete who voted to keep the nickname." Have they ever had the students vote for it?

[Siouxperfan7]

Because the results would make the nickname supporters claim that "Kelley and Faison said they'd revoke the scholarship of any student-athlete who voted to keep the nickname." Have they ever had the students vote for it?

Students and student athletes that are currently living in Grand Forks this summer WILL get a chance to vote. Their voices will be heard.

[Hayduke]

Because the results would make the nickname supporters claim that "Kelley and Faison said they'd revoke the scholarship of any student-athlete who voted to keep the nickname." Have they ever had the students vote for it?

You're probably right. But, I believe the number of nickname supporters are shrinking daily.

[watchmaker49]

There are a lot of great schools in this country that only play D3 or NAIA which is very close to not having sports. Look at the UWisc. system. A good student who plays hockey at one of the D3 Wisc. schools will get more scholarship money than a UND hockey player. A lot of these D3 schools are as big or bigger than UND like St. Thomas which is as large or dang near as large as UND.

[UNDColorado]

There are a lot of great schools in this country that only play D3 or NAIA which is very close to not having sports. Look at the UWisc. system. A good student who plays hockey at one of the D3 Wisc. schools will get more scholarship money than a UND hockey player. A lot of these D3 schools are as big or bigger than UND like St. Thomas which is as large or dang near as large as UND.

You do have a point, however I see two issues:

1) D3 is still ncaa, meaning our nickname is still not okay

2) These D3 schools in Wisconsin are great however you are trying to compare UW- Whitewater, UW- Lacrosse, ETC with the University of North Dakota. UND is not called UND- Grand Forks. Something just doesn't seem right when those schools are in the same conversation as UND. That is like comparing the college out in Williston (which is growing) to UND; just doesn't make sense. UND is much better than that.

[jdub27]

There are a lot of great schools in this country that only play D3 or NAIA which is very close to not having sports. Look at the UWisc. system. A good student who plays hockey at one of the D3 Wisc. schools will get more scholarship money than a UND hockey player. A lot of these D3 schools are as big or bigger than UND like St. Thomas which is as large or dang near as large as UND.

Playing D-III means UND is still under sanctions. Playing NAIA means dropping hockey. Looks like a no win situation to me.

Dave said that some of the finest colleges had no sports. That is false unless he can magically come up with an answer, but being how he has completely avoided and then changed the question, things aren't looking in his favor.

[BigGreyAnt41]

There are a lot of great schools in this country that only play D3 or NAIA which is very close to not having sports. Look at the UWisc. system. A good student who plays hockey at one of the D3 Wisc. schools will get more scholarship money than a UND hockey player. A lot of these D3 schools are as big or bigger than UND like St. Thomas which is as large or dang near as large as UND.

St Thomas University in St Paul? Their undergrad enrollement is about 6,200.

[darell1976]

You do have a point, however I see two issues:

1) D3 is still ncaa, meaning our nickname is still not okay

2) These D3 schools in Wisconsin are great however you are trying to compare UW- Whitewater, UW- Lacrosse, ETC with the University of North Dakota. UND is not called UND- Grand Forks. Something just doesn't seem right when those schools are in the same conversation as UND. That is like comparing the college out in Williston (which is growing) to UND; just doesn't make sense. UND is much better than that.

3. Wisconsin (Badgers) has a policy against playing teams that are under nickname sanctions.....who says these other "Wisconsin" schools don't adopt the same policy as the Badgers.

[82SiouxGuy]

You do have a point, however I see two issues:

1) D3 is still ncaa, meaning our nickname is still not okay

2) These D3 schools in Wisconsin are great however you are trying to compare UW- Whitewater, UW- Lacrosse, ETC with the University of North Dakota. UND is not called UND- Grand Forks. Something just doesn't seem right when those schools are in the same conversation as UND. That is like comparing the college out in Williston (which is growing) to UND; just doesn't make sense. UND is much better than that.

Other than Madison, the other UW schools have a limited number of master's degree programs and very few Ph.D programs. I don't think that any of them, other than Madison, has a medical school or law school. They are not research universities. The UW schools are more like Moorhead and Morris, only larger. Some of the Wisconsin schools are similar in size to UND, but they do not have the same educational opportunities.

[iramurphy]

There are a lot of great schools in this country that only play D3 or NAIA which is very close to not having sports. Look at the UWisc. system. A good student who plays hockey at one of the D3 Wisc. schools will get more scholarship money than a UND hockey player. A lot of these D3 schools are as big or bigger than UND like St. Thomas which is as large or dang near as large as UND.

This is very typical of the misinformation passed to voters in the western part of the state. These are all U of Wisconsin campuses and I bet whatever you want to bet, they are under the same policy as the Madison campus. You make a claim such as St. Thomas being as large as UND or these U of Wisconsin schools being as big or bigger but you don't have the facts. You also don't have the facts when you claim they get more scholarship money than a UND student. I dont' believe D3 schools give scholarships. You really think you are qualified to make an informed decision when you enter the polling place to vote??? When you are this misinformed I would conclude you are either deliberately mistating the facts or not very bright or both. Same kind of crap Frank and the Minot attorney are trying to spread in N.Dak.

[MplsBison]

DIII athletic departments are not allowed to provide any scholarship equivalencies of aid to student athletes. That's a philosophical pillar of the division.

However, that certainly does not mean that individual institutions can not provide financial aid to their students, in the form of grants that are funded by endowed gifts from alumni, businesses, etc. Therefore, a DIII student athlete can receive financial aid from the institution like any regular student. It just so happens that some student athletes are "more eligible", shall we say, than the rest of the student body to receive the aid. *WINK WINK*

So say at Joe Bloe DIII University, a hockey player has been selected to receive the "Excellence Foundation Award", which covers 50% of the tuition costs in the year of the award for any student meeting ___ criteria. And it just so happens that the tuition at this school is $50k. Therefore, the award itself has a dollar value of $25k.

In theory, any student could've gotten this award. But in practice, it's some hockey player that meets the minimum criteria.

[fightingsioux4life]

I just got back from voting early at the Alerus Center and I proudly cast my YES vote for Measure 4, which would repeal Carlson's Folly and allow UND to retire the name and logo.

[Fetch]

Be Brave & vote NO - Ira wheres my sheep

[Siouxperfan7]

Be Brave & vote NO - Ira wheres my sheep

Be smart and vote YES