How will you vote June 12th?

[homer]

You can't handle any oppostion to your views can you. I am not talking with the NCAA, I am dealing with you and you stopped, took a breath, and actually read the post, before you respond we could have a better conversation. I will wait now for Homer and the BIZ grammar police to read my post and correct any errors. And if you have shy bladders you can send my an email.

The coaches who's lively hood is affected by the ramifications of keeping the nickname have come out and are now in agreement it is time to change it. How about we start the conversation there? They are closer to the situation than you, I or anyone else on this board. Are they excited to change it? No. Do they understand what it is necessary to get their programs to the next level or keep their programs at the highest level? Yes. They can back up their stance with facts. I'll wait for you to give your facts that support why the name should stay.

[UNDBIZ]

You can't handle any oppostion to your views can you. I am not talking with the NCAA, I am dealing with you and you stopped, took a breath, and actually read the post, before you respond we could have a better conversation. I will wait now for Homer and the BIZ grammar police to read my post and correct any errors. And if you have shy bladders you can send my an email.

Where have I gone "grammar police" on you? I said don't feed the troll (you) earlier. I also pointed out scpa contradicted himself. That wasn't grammar, that was simply a factual problem with his statement.

[scpa0305]

Where have I gone "grammar police" on you? I said don't feed the troll (you) earlier. I also pointed out scpa contradicted himself. That wasn't grammar, that was simply a factual problem with his statement.

When did I contradict myself? I probably did, but just can't find it. Long story short, many of you guys want to keep the nickname because you would rather play SDSU than Jamestown, which now makes sense to me (although it is still below D-1 A which is all the same to me, however I agree when we have the chance to play the D-1 A teams and get rick-rolled it is still fun to watch for the first couple quarters (no sarcasm meant)). I simply think if this law does pass, the NCAA (after some time and arguements) will eventually let us off the hook. As for getting those games against liberal schools with money (UM, WIS, etc) probably won't happen. If the Seminoles can have their name so can we, I know we did it ass backwards, but at the end of the day there is no difference. They have approval, so do we...end of story. At a higher moral level, we have people of native decent fighting to keep the name....just doesn't make sense to me. They obviosuly do not find it offensive.

[Siouxperfan7]

When did I contradict myself? I probably did, but just can't find it. Long story short, many of you guys want to keep the nickname because you would rather play SDSU than Jamestown, which now makes sense to me (although it is still below D-1 A which is all the same to me, however I agree when we have the chance to play the D-1 A teams and get rick-rolled it is still fun to watch for the first couple quarters (no sarcasm meant)). I simply think if this law does pass, the NCAA (after some time and arguements) will eventually let us off the hook. As for getting those games against liberal schools with money (UM, WIS, etc) probably won't happen. If the Seminoles can have their name so can we, I know we did it ass backwards, but at the end of the day there is no difference. They have approval, so do we...end of story. At a higher moral level, we have people of native decent fighting to keep the name....just doesn't make sense to me. They obviosuly do not find it offensive.

Of course its not fair. Spirit Lake Tribe voted to approve the name. But we are under sanctions because we didn't get approval from 2 tribes. Is it fair that Fla. St. only needed approval from 1 tribe, no. Is it fair that we are inecitably going to have to change our name while other schools with native american names get to keep theirs, no. But guess what, life's not fair. We keep the name, we live with the consequences. We retire it, we can move on. 5 years from now we will all see that this was the right thing to do. Sometimes you have to get the chip off your shoulder and accept the inevitable. You will be much better off.

[82SiouxGuy]

When did I contradict myself? I probably did, but just can't find it. Long story short, many of you guys want to keep the nickname because you would rather play SDSU than Jamestown, which now makes sense to me (although it is still below D-1 A which is all the same to me, however I agree when we have the chance to play the D-1 A teams and get rick-rolled it is still fun to watch for the first couple quarters (no sarcasm meant)). I simply think if this law does pass, the NCAA (after some time and arguements) will eventually let us off the hook. As for getting those games against liberal schools with money (UM, WIS, etc) probably won't happen. If the Seminoles can have their name so can we, I know we did it ass backwards, but at the end of the day there is no difference. They have approval, so do we...end of story. At a higher moral level, we have people of native decent fighting to keep the name....just doesn't make sense to me. They obviosuly do not find it offensive.

I have asked before, why do you believe tha the NCAA will eventually change their mind and let UND off the hook? What do you base this on? Do you have any evidence of this? The NCAA has a history of making decisions on issues like this and following through on these issues. As we have said before, look into the Confederate flag issue in South Carolina and Mississippi. The NCAA has a policy in place, and have sanctions on those states. They have been in place for 10 years and there is no evidence that they are going to stop the sanctions or change the policy. The NCAA is not going to give UND special treatment by changing the policy.

And schools like Floriday State having approval is not the same as UND's situation. Those schools got approval within a specific and required time period. UND did not. The situations are not the same, which means that it is too late to get required approvals from the tribes, which means that UND will be on sanctions until the name is changed. The rose lensed glasses that you're wearing aren't going to change the truth that UND is on sanctions as long as it keeps the nickname and logo, and the sanctions are going to cause serious damage.

[fightingsioux4life]

OK pivitz, propose the solution where things can go merrily along for all, meaning keep the name and no NCAA sanctions.

You won't get any "solutions" from him; he (and others on here like him) believe that the sanctions are "a small price to pay". That's his "solution". He has brought nothing to the table and he has the nerve in the same breath to call me and people like me cowards with nothing to back up our side. He is a Grade A troll and has contributed nothing to this debate.

[ScottM]

If the Seminoles can have their name so can we, I know we did it ass backwards, but at the end of the day there is no difference. They have approval, so do we...end of story. At a higher moral level, we have people of native decent fighting to keep the name....just doesn't make sense to me. They obviosuly do not find it offensive.

Er no. UND and the state agreed to two-tribes' approval as part of the settlement agreement within a given timeframe. UND failed to achieve that marker and is now under sanctions. Perhaps if SL had gotten off its ass in 2005 and gave is permission to UND when it really counted, we may not be having this conversation. As it is, their misguided, and patently stupid, efforts in the courts have no effect on that agreement, and no amount of tribal ceremony and straw grasping will change that in the NC$$'s eyes.

[scpa0305]

Of course its not fair. Spirit Lake Tribe voted to approve the name. But we are under sanctions because we didn't get approval from 2 tribes. Is it fair that Fla. St. only needed approval from 1 tribe, no. Is it fair that we are inecitably going to have to change our name while other schools with native american names get to keep theirs, no. But guess what, life's not fair. We keep the name, we live with the consequences. We retire it, we can move on. 5 years from now we will all see that this was the right thing to do. Sometimes you have to get the chip off your shoulder and accept the inevitable. You will be much better off.

I agree with much of what you said....except that because FSU will still be the Seminoles.

[Siouxperfan7]

I agree with much of what you said....except that because FSU will still be the Seminoles.

There was a process that schools with native american names had to follow in order to get approval from the NCAA. Florida State followed that process. UND did not follow the process because they could not get immediate approval from Spirit Lake. So they sues and settled. They agreed to get 2 tribal approvals. they failed to do so. So you can say that it is hypocritical for the NCAA to allow Fla. St to keep their name and UND cannot. But they followed the rules and guildlines set forth by the NCAA. We did not.

[Siouxperfan7]

Yes I fully get we missed a deadline or two....but this isn't about a school project...this about what is right and wrong and about who is offends. If the natives came outright and said it offends them I would say get rid of the name. But that is not what is happening...they were late on filing some paperwork and now our school is being punished. As I have said 100 times, with a situation like this, you have to look outside the box....this isn't a "check the box" kind of answer. There has to be some leniency as it is obvious that we are not offending the people that the NCAA seems to think we are offending. If someone can tell me that ALL of the sanctions you guys have mentioned and that we definitely will become a D3 school in all sports...than I may agree with all you and hope the name goes. I just think there is something that can be done.

Unfortunately we are beyond the point where tribal approval will get us anywhere with the NCAA. Yes, the Spirit Lake Tribe was late to the party granting us approval, but in the eyes of the NCAA, that doesn't matter. They have the signed settlement agreement that says we need both tribes approval. Is it worng...YES. Is the NCAA overeaching their power, Absolutely. But its their club and if we want to be in it, we have to follow by their rules. Its a crappy situation, but that is our only option for college sports.

[scpa0305]

Unfortunately we are beyond the point where tribal approval will get us anywhere with the NCAA. Yes, the Spirit Lake Tribe was late to the party granting us approval, but in the eyes of the NCAA, that doesn't matter. They have the signed settlement agreement that says we need both tribes approval. Is it worng...YES. Is the NCAA overeaching their power, Absolutely. But its their club and if we want to be in it, we have to follow by their rules. Its a crappy situation, but that is our only option for college sports.

Yeah, I agree with you. Pretty sure the name will get voted out anyway.

[UNDColorado]

Great article from Fargo: http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/363197/group/Opinion/

[Fetch]

Even better & more honest http://www.kfyrtv.com/News_Stories.asp?news=57475

[Siouxperfan7]

Even better & more honest http://www.kfyrtv.co....asp?news=57475

If there is even a chance the Big Sky could kick us out because of the issue, it is not worth it. If they kick us out, that's it. No league is going to want a team that was kicked out of their conference. NO ONE!!

And Minnesota and Wisconsin willl not play us in any sport. And yes that includes hockey.

[scpa0305]

If there is even a chance the Big Sky could kick us out because of the issue, it is not worth it. If they kick us out, that's it. No league is going to want a team that was kicked out of their conference. NO ONE!!

And Minnesota and Wisconsin willl not play us in any sport. And yes that includes hockey.

Scare tactics....the NCAA was against the ropes....if vote goes no (or yes to the nickname) they will eventually be forced to pull the sanctions. However, their scare tactics has obviously scared everyone to the point of getting rid of the greatest logo and nickname in sports. Please do not listen to the coaches...look who pays them. I like Hak a lot...but I know he probably cares more about how he stands with his bosses than the nickname. The nickname is much more important to the fans and the people who have grown up in GF.

[jdub27]

Scare tactics....the NCAA was against the ropes....if vote goes no (or yes to the nickname) they will eventually be forced to pull the sanctions.

Really?? Pretty sure they have a signed settlement agreement that begs to differ.

Please do not listen to the coaches...look who pays them. I like Hak a lot...but I know he probably cares more about how he stands with his bosses than the nickname. The nickname is much more important to the fans and the people who have grown up in GF.

You are right, why listen to those who's jobs will be affected due to the harm the sanctions will put on their programs. What are they thinking looking out for the livelihood of their careers, the program and the University? And what was in Grand Forks first, the Fighting Sioux nickname or the University of North Dakota? That should explain to you what is more important.

[Teeder11]

Even better & more honest http://www.kfyrtv.co....asp?news=57475

Hey, Einstein, do you know the difference between a news story and an editorial? Hint: one is an opinion usually based on careful weighing of facts. The other is an objective take on something of interest and usually includes opinions from sources from boths sides of an issue. Now, from that, can you figure out which is which?

[Siouxperfan7]

Scare tactics....the NCAA was against the ropes....if vote goes no (or yes to the nickname) they will eventually be forced to pull the sanctions. However, their scare tactics has obviously scared everyone to the point of getting rid of the greatest logo and nickname in sports. Please do not listen to the coaches...look who pays them. I like Hak a lot...but I know he probably cares more about how he stands with his bosses than the nickname. The nickname is much more important to the fans and the people who have grown up in GF.

We can debate the Big Sky issue all we want. The FACT that Minnesota, Wisconsin, SDSU, Iowa and an evergrowing list of schools that will not play us is REAL. UND CANNOT host NCAA playoff games. These are not scare tactics. The NCAA is not against the ropes. They have already said that a state law means nothing to them. Remember the meeing in Indianapolis last summer? They have a signed settlement. They are not backing down. If you can provide proof that the NCAA will back down on their policy, I am all ears. Let's hear em!!

Sorry buddy, I will listen to the coaches and hear what they have to say about how having the "Sanctioned" stigma on the University has affected recruiting and how it will hurt their respective teams over your opinion any day. Sorry, I think they know their team and how their recruiting works better than you pal.

I have lived in Grand Forks my entire life. I am proud of the Fighting Sioux nickname. But the UNIVERSITY and its teams are more important to the fans than the name and logo.

[jodcon]

"The Athletic Director, Faison, was telling everybody that the Big Sky Conference is really worried about the Fighting Sioux thing," said Soderstrom. "We found out later through a former UND athletic director, who is now at San Diego State, that that`s not true. It wasn`t even brought up."

We've been through this before.

Not only is San Diego State NOT in the Big Sky Conference, Terry Wanless has no clue how the BSC is set to deal with UND if the nickname is forced to be kept, SDSU has no insight or input.

What a joke.

[Siouxperfan7]

"The Athletic Director, Faison, was telling everybody that the Big Sky Conference is really worried about the Fighting Sioux thing," said Soderstrom. "We found out later through a former UND athletic director, who is now at San Diego State, that that`s not true. It wasn`t even brought up."

We've been through this before.

Not only is San Diego State NOT in the Big Sky Conference, Terry Wanless has no clue how the BCS is set to deal with UND if the nickname is forced to be kept, SDSU has no insight or input.

What a joke.

Of course Fetch would bring up an article that is factual inaccurate!! This is right up his alley!!!

[Teeder11]

Scare tactics....the NCAA was against the ropes....if vote goes no (or yes to the nickname) they will eventually be forced to pull the sanctions. However, their scare tactics has obviously scared everyone to the point of getting rid of the greatest logo and nickname in sports. Please do not listen to the coaches...look who pays them. I like Hak a lot...but I know he probably cares more about how he stands with his bosses than the nickname. The nickname is much more important to the fans and the people who have grown up in GF.

You are kind of scizophrenic on this issue, aren't you? One minute, you post something that seems somewhat mild mannered and conciliatory -- as if you are trying to get a grip on a very complex issue, but just don't understand why we have to back down and change the nickname. You come off as unhappy about the injustice of it all but ulitmately resigned to the realities we're facing -- and then the next minute, you post something where you go off the deep end, making wild claims of what is motivating UND coaches and making statements like the "NCAA was on the ropes" and how they "will be forced to pull the sanctions." News flash: The NCAA was never on the ropes. Hell, they were never in the ring. They do own the venue where the fight is taking place, however, and they did set the fight rules, and now they are sitting back and watching us battle it out amongst ourselves.

UND is the bantamweight on the first undercard and the NCAA is the heavyweight champion of the world in your scenario.

[ScottM]

Scare tactics....the NCAA was against the ropes....if vote goes no (or yes to the nickname) they will eventually be forced to pull the sanctions.

Really? What color is the sky in your world? The NC$$ basically wins all of its fights with member schools, and if they don't at first they change the rules to "fix" it. Is this the point where you say "UND can join the NAIA!!!"?

[jodcon]

What keeps baffling me is that people are constantly coming on here and claiming, under what I can only label as "false hope", that the NCAA will magically decide to make the sanctions go away after a few years.

Why in the f would they?!

They have battled UND on this issue for years which still isn't settled and has caused them an enormous amount of headaches and manpower and money, do you really think they have a soft spot in their hearts for the Fighting Sioux school that has been a pain in their ass?

They legally won, and people who have legally won DO NOT give back what they have won, especially if it means compromising their "integrity" on an issue...and yes I am using that term very loosely.

[homer]

Even better & more honest http://www.kfyrtv.co....asp?news=57475

He lied in the article about Wanless being at San Diego St. so he lost all credibility with me.

Seriously, correct me if I'm wrong but Wanless is at Sacramento St. When he misses the easy facts, he loses all other credibility.

[82SiouxGuy]

What keeps baffling me is that people are constantly coming on here and claiming, under what I can only label as "false hope", that the NCAA will magically decide to make the sanctions go away after a few years.

Why in the f would they?!

They have battled UND on this issue for years which still isn't settled and has caused them an enormous amount of headaches and manpower and money, do you really think they have a soft spot in their hearts for the Fighting Sioux school that has been a pain in their ass?

They legally won, and people who have legally won DO NOT give back what they have won, especially if it means compromising their "integrity" on an issue...and yes I am using that term very loosely.

The other thing is that the NCAA can't back down to UND at this point because it would cause huge problems with every school that was forced to make a change. Can you imagine the reactions at the dozen plus schools that changed their nickname because of this issue if UND didn't have to follow the rules? Or the 15-20 more that made a change before that because they realized something was coming? THE NCAA IS NOT GOING TO BACK DOWN AND THE SANCTIONS ARE NOT GOING AWAY AS LONG AS UND KEEPS THE NICKNAME. The NCAA has the law on its side and they are not going to go backwards.