Spirit Lake vs NCAA

[82SiouxGuy]

A Federal Judge called them Modest Sanctions & said UND could of been the one to have brought up any concerns

You guys better get to work on your own petition on the name - I still feel No will prevail & the name will stay

Thanks SL for the effort - It's not over yet

Your lack of understanding is almost unbelievable. You and Dave are quite a pair.

If the No vote wins in June the Supreme Court will review and will probably determine the law is unconstitutional. If it isn't found unconstitutional the Legislature can overturn the election with a 2/3 majority, basically the same vote as got rid of the law in November. And I wouldn't count on the vote going your way after the court decision anyway. A lot of people will change their vote when they realize that the lawsuit is over and can't help after all. But at least we know that your word is worthless.

[Hawkster]

Not worth giving up the name for "MODEST SANCTIONS"

Modest sanctions. Is that something like Slightly Pregnant? Sanctions are sanctions, and UND can't survive with them.

[JohnboyND7]

Your lack of understanding is almost unbelievable. You and Dave are quite a pair.

If the No vote wins in June the Supreme Court will review and will probably determine the law is unconstitutional. If it isn't found unconstitutional the Legislature can overturn the election with a 2/3 majority, basically the same vote as got rid of the law in November. And I wouldn't count on the vote going your way after the court decision anyway. A lot of people will change their vote when they realize that the lawsuit is over and can't help after all. But at least we know that your word is worthless.

Then wait for the nickname people to get the constitution changed. I imagine a lot of people happy to put UND in the constitution.

[82SiouxGuy]

Then wait for the nickname people to get the constitution changed. I imagine a lot of people happy to put UND in the constitution.

North Dakotans are always hesitant about changing the Constitution. Plus that would add another 5 months to educate people on the actual consequences. The majority of North Dakota citizens will not do something that they believe will hurt UND. So it is a matter of making sure they understand.

[darell1976]

A Federal Judge called them Modest Sanctions & said UND could of been the one to have brought up any concerns

You guys better get to work on your own petition on the name - I still feel No will prevail & the name will stay

Thanks SL for the effort - It's not over yet

Actually it is over. Unless you really want UND to be modeled after Alcorn State oh wait they have a conference. Maybe a true wake up call for you and Dave would be for the BSC to come out and say we are now going to take a vote to kick UND out for being on NCAA sanctions...oh wait even if UND were to get booted from the BSC, and the NCHC you would still feel the need to keep the name. What will it take for you two to see the light?? Besides a 2X4.

[johnsowe]

So now what? Is someone going to show leadership and put this issue to bed soon?

[UND Alum Fan]

It's a HUGE marketing tool. Kids sometimes, believe it or not, choose a school at the age of 17 because it's the cool and fun place to be. Later, they find out what great academic programs they have.

Excellent point, JB!

Absolutely true! Both my kids that are currently in college would only choose a school with relavent athletics. Most incoming freshmen don't have a clue what they want to do yet so athletics is a huge piece of the puzzle for them. My oldest would never have gone to UND without the hockey team. So yes, I believe attendance will suffer slowly over time. Time to vote "yes".

[bincitysioux]

under terms of the NCAA policy, “UND and other similarly-situated schools are under no obligation to retire their American Indian nicknames and imagery,” Erickson wrote. “While the policy mandates modest sanctions for the use of these marks,

So I'm still voting NO

Now more than ever it is crucial for the continued existence of the Fighting Sioux athletics program to vote no.

You two are hilarious.

Tell me, why is it that the both of you continue to opine here, on a Pro-UND site when you both so obviously wish for UND Hockey, the rest of the athletic department, and the University as a whole to fail?

I believe one, or perhaps even both of you said that you would accept the retirement of the abstract cartoon figure/moniker once the Spirit Lake lawsuit ran its course..........................

[82SiouxGuy]

You two are hilarious.

Tell me, why is it that the both of you continue to opine here, on a Pro-UND site when you both so obviously wish for UND Hockey, the rest of the athletic department, and the University as a whole to fail?

I believe one, or perhaps even both of you said that you would accept the retirement of the abstract cartoon figure/moniker once the Spirit Lake lawsuit ran its course..........................

Fetch said that, but earlier tonight he said that he still wants to keep the name. So he is not a man of his word. Dave just wants to destroy the program.

[82SiouxGuy]

Wrong. Those who support changing the name are the ones who want to destroy the program. The Fighting Sioux program will no longer exist if and when the name gets changed, but you PC zealots will be happy with any name so it doesn't matter to you.

It's the University of North Dakota athletic program. Fighting Sioux is the nickname they use. The program won't change. The nickname will. I'm sorry that you don't have the ability to understand what everyone else on the planet understands. The program isn't going anywhere, they are just going to be called something else.

[darell1976]

Wrong. Those who support changing the name are the ones who want to destroy the program. The Fighting Sioux program will no longer exist if and when the name gets changed, but you PC zealots will be happy with any name so it doesn't matter to you.

And once the Fighting Sioux program no longer exists then UND can host playoff games, play Minny, UW, Iowa, and SDSU again, and we can be in the good gracious of the BSC.

[choyt3]

You two are hilarious.

Tell me, why is it that the both of you continue to opine here, on a Pro-UND site when you both so obviously wish for UND Hockey, the rest of the athletic department, and the University as a whole to fail?

I believe one, or perhaps even both of you said that you would accept the retirement of the abstract cartoon figure/moniker once the Spirit Lake lawsuit ran its course..........................

I understand you are making a point, and this isn't the first time you've used similar characterization, but I think it is bad form to minimize the nickname and logo to being a cartoon. That is certainly not what Ben Brien created. We all know it needs to go away but thats no reason to be disrespectful.

[Siouxperfan7]

Wrong. Those who support changing the name are the ones who want to destroy the program. The Fighting Sioux program will no longer exist if and when the name gets changed, but you PC zealots will be happy with any name so it doesn't matter to you.

Dave, do you not understand that virtually everyone who posts on this site thinks the Fighting Sioux logo is not "hostile and abusive" or racist. I don't think any of us agree with the opinions of the NCAA in regards to native american names. We all love the Fighting Sioux logo and all that it stands for. But there come s a point where you have to put other things ahead of your own desires. So I want to keep the Sioux name, of course. Do I want to keep the name and sacrifice the well bing of the University and its athletic department, absolutely not. You need to maybe put your selfish desires aside and not do what you want to do, but do what you know is right. The majority of the people on here have done that. It is time for you to do that as well.

[JohnboyND7]

I understand you are making a point, and this isn't the first time you've used similar characterization, but I think it is bad form to minimize the nickname and logo to being a cartoon. That is certainly not what Ben Brien created. We all know it needs to go away but thats no reason to be disrespectful.

I don't know what else you would call it? It is a drawing. I don't see how that, or any other logo that was drawn of a mascot, is not a cartoon. Please spare everyone some weird spiritual meaning that a drawing of an indian head is "more than a drawing/cartoon."

Regardless, DaveK and Fetch have went off the deep end. Actually they did a long time ago, but oh well. I reckon they are nuts anyway. Off topic question...whatever happened to Star2City "The Prophet of the Carolinas?"

[BigGreyAnt41]

I don't know what else you would call it? It is a drawing. I don't see how that, or any other logo that was drawn of a mascot, is not a cartoon. Please spare everyone some weird spiritual meaning that a drawing of an indian head is "more than a drawing/cartoon."

It's generally accepted that a "cartoon" is "intended for satire, caricature or humor". Ben Brien's art was not meant as any of those.

[darell1976]

It's generally accepted that a "cartoon" is "intended for satire, caricature or humor". Ben Brien's art was not meant as any of those.

Chief Wahoo is a cartoon...Sammy Sioux is a cartoon, Brien's Fighting Sioux logo is not a cartoon.

[jdub27]

Chief Wahoo is a cartoon...Sammy Sioux is a cartoon, Brien's Fighting Sioux logo is not a cartoon.

I would agree with you. But would it have anywhere close to the significance and meaning that it does to anyone on this site if it wasn't related to the University of North Dakota? The answer is no, not even close. There are many pieces of art work/drawings/paintings/etc that are equally as strong and proud as Ben Brien's, but the feelings on his are so strong because of what it is tied to. And that is what is important, what made Brien's artwork so popular, the University of North Dakota. The fact that some can't see past that is absolutely bewildering and borderline ridiculous.

[JohnboyND7]

Chief Wahoo is a cartoon...Sammy Sioux is a cartoon, Brien's Fighting Sioux logo is not a cartoon.

Ok, so is NDSU's old snorty logo a cartoon? I mean...it represents the Bison team that I have loved since I was born. Is Notre Dame's Irish logo a cartoon? It represents the spirit of the IRISH!

Answer: Yes. They are both cartoons. I like the cartoons. I buy apparel (hats mostly) with them on there. I smile when I see other people with them. Does that mean they aren't a cartoon? Nope. They certainly are cartoons.

[BIGSIOUX]

Ok, so is NDSU's old snorty logo a cartoon? I mean...it represents the Bison team that I have loved since I was born. Is Notre Dame's Irish logo a cartoon? It represents the spirit of the IRISH!

Answer: Yes. They are both cartoons. I like the cartoons. I buy apparel (hats mostly) with them on there. I smile when I see other people with them. Does that mean they aren't a cartoon? Nope. They certainly are cartoons.

The mona lisa? Cartoon....maybe. It was drawn.

How about The Last Supper.....knee slapper.

[UNDBIZ]

I can kind of see both sides of the cartoon debate. I think what people are getting caught up on is they associate the word cartoon with the trash you see on Nickelodeon today. Others use the word cartoon for anything that is animated. I believe many animations/cartoons can be considered art. Watch an older Disney movie for example.

[fightingsioux4life]

Dave, do you not understand that virtually everyone who posts on this site thinks the Fighting Sioux logo is not "hostile and abusive" or racist. I don't think any of us agree with the opinions of the NCAA in regards to native american names. We all love the Fighting Sioux logo and all that it stands for. But there come s a point where you have to put other things ahead of your own desires. So I want to keep the Sioux name, of course. Do I want to keep the name and sacrifice the well bing of the University and its athletic department, absolutely not. You need to maybe put your selfish desires aside and not do what you want to do, but do what you know is right. The majority of the people on here have done that. It is time for you to do that as well.

''The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" - Mr. Spock (Leonard Nimoy) in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan (1982).

[The Sicatoka]

Modest sanctions. Is that something like Slightly Pregnant? Sanctions are sanctions, and UND can't survive with them.

No, not "slightly pregnant".

More like "mostly dead".

[ScottM]

More like "mostly dead".

Like this?

[jodcon]

''The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" - Mr. Spock (Leonard Nimoy) in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan (1982).

"or the one."

In this case two.

[82SiouxGuy]

You don't have to like it, but as you said, it is their right and UND has to deal with it. The best way to deal with it is to not give them that opportunity.