darell1976 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 http://www.grandforksherald.com/even...cle/id/234522/ Encouraged by its victory last month at the North Dakota Supreme Court, the Spirit Lake Sioux Tribe goes into federal court this week to face the NCAA directly in the tribe’s effort to preserve use of the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo at UND. In what could be a pivotal moment in the nickname saga, lawyers will be in U.S. District Court in Fargo on Thursday for a hearing on the NCAA’s motion to dismiss the lawsuit brought last November by the tribe, which seeks to overturn the association’s policy discouraging use of American Indian names and imagery by athletic teams of member schools Here is something I found interesting which I hope prevails!!! Several Indian students at UND who oppose the nickname have asked the federal court to require the nickname’s retirement. That lawsuit, brought against Gov. Jack Dalrymple and other state officials, also is making its way through the U.S. District Court system. Then Al Carlson can look like the biggest dolt on the face of the earth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Then Al Carlson can look like the biggest dolt on the face of the earth. I think that truth is self-evident. I would imagine that if a Federal Court ruled that the Fighting Sioux nickname had to be retired based on that lawsuit, Al Carlson would make some stupid statement about North Dakota's "sovereignty" and how "the Federal Government has no real power here". In other words, he just wouldn't get it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 I think that truth is self-evident. I would imagine that if a Federal Court ruled that the Fighting Sioux nickname had to be retired based on that lawsuit, Al Carlson would make some stupid statement about North Dakota's "sovereignty" and how "the Federal Government has no real power here". In other words, he just wouldn't get it. On a serious note what's the chances that lawsuit holds water? Can the US tell ND you must retire UND's nickname? Where is our legal experts on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 On a serious note what's the chances that lawsuit holds water? Can the US tell ND you must retire UND's nickname? Where is our legal experts on this. I am no lawyer (and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night), but I think that the lawsuit is based on Federal civil rights and equal protection laws. The idea is to get the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo declared a violation of Native American civil and human rights under Federal law because it creates a hostile educational environment for Native American students. Because UND is a public institution that gets Federal dollars from many, many different sources and is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action institution, I think it is plausible that a Federal court could order the official use of the name and logo discontinued. I think they will have to come up with solid evidence to prove their case; whether they have that is anybodys guess. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I am no lawyer (and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night), but I think that the lawsuit is based on Federal civil rights and equal protection laws. The idea is to get the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo declared a violation of Native American civil and human rights under Federal law because it creates a hostile educational environment for Native American students. Because UND is a public institution that gets Federal dollars from many, many different sources and is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action institution, I think it is plausible that a Federal court could order the official use of the name and logo discontinued. I think they will have to come up with solid evidence to prove their case; whether they have that is anybodys guess. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. Wouldn't that just open up a huge can of worms for alot of other schools? Wouldn't that make FSU have to retire their name as well? I don't see the Federal court getting involved at this point...at least not at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Because UND is a public institution that gets Federal dollars from many, many different sources and is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action institution, I think it is plausible that a Federal court could order the official use of the name and logo discontinued. I think they will have to come up with solid evidence to prove their case; whether they have that is anybodys guess. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. I don't think they will go there. I could see them throwing the law suit out of court though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I am no lawyer (and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night), but I think that the lawsuit is based on Federal civil rights and equal protection laws. The idea is to get the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo declared a violation of Native American civil and human rights under Federal law because it creates a hostile educational environment for Native American students. Because UND is a public institution that gets Federal dollars from many, many different sources and is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action institution, I think it is plausible that a Federal court could order the official use of the name and logo discontinued. I think they will have to come up with solid evidence to prove their case; whether they have that is anybodys guess. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. The US government came to UND several years ago to investigate claims of discrimination and civil rights violations because of the nickname. They didn't find enough evidence to issue any penalties of any kind. They did recommend that UND retire the name at that time. I believe that was a year or 2 before the NCAA policy was put in place, so it was close to 10 years ago. But I would be very surprised if they found much more at this time, so I don't see the courts forcing UND to retire the name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 I am no lawyer (and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night), but I think that the lawsuit is based on Federal civil rights and equal protection laws. The idea is to get the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo declared a violation of Native American civil and human rights under Federal law because it creates a hostile educational environment for Native American students. Because UND is a public institution that gets Federal dollars from many, many different sources and is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action institution, I think it is plausible that a Federal court could order the official use of the name and logo discontinued. I think they will have to come up with solid evidence to prove their case; whether they have that is anybodys guess. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. So this is about NA students and discrimination or harrassment because of the name and NOT about Carlson's law. I suppose they would leave that up to the NDSC...oh wait they are undecided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 So this is about NA students and discrimination or harrassment because of the name and NOT about Carlson's law. I suppose they would leave that up to the NDSC...oh wait they are undecided. That is my guess. I am thinking this lawsuit won't fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Thursday at 2 pm in The Honorable Ralph R. Erickson's courtroom in Fargo. http://www.ndd.uscou...6810thu1ceo.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) Thursday at 2 pm in The Honorable Ralph R. Erickson's courtroom in Fargo. http://www.ndd.uscou...6810thu1ceo.htm Looks like they have some immigration hearings as well. Edited April 16, 2012 by Goon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Wouldn't that just open up a huge can of worms for alot of other schools? Wouldn't that make FSU have to retire their name as well? I don't see the Federal court getting involved at this point...at least not at this point. I think the fact that the Seminole tribe endorses the use of their name by Florida State would make their situation a little different. We have the endorsement of Spirit Lake, but not Standing Rock, so that would be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I think the fact that the Seminole tribe endorses the use of their name by Florida State would make their situation a little different. We have the endorsement of Spirit Lake, but not Standing Rock, so that would be interesting. I understand that FSU has support from the Seminole tribe. My thoughts are that if the Federal Government comes out and says that Native American nicknames such as the Sioux are offensive, all it would take is a few Seminole tribe members to be offended and take FSU to Federal Court...where a precedent (forcing retirement of the Sioux Name) would be set. Thus I don't believe the Federal Courts will take action on it at this time. I am no lawyer so I really have no idea if this is what would occur... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Ranger Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I think the fact that the Seminole tribe endorses the use of their name by Florida State would make their situation a little different. We have the endorsement of Spirit Lake, but not Standing Rock, so that would be interesting. From what I understand about the whole Florida St situation, other than the fact that they make the NCAA millions, is that the Seminole tribe in Florida approved the use of the nickname but the main Seminole tribes are in Oklahoma and they are against the use. Since the Seminole tribe closest to the university approves the use, the NCAA is ok with it. Someone may correct me if I am wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 the majority of SR tribe is in SD SL should have been enough This alone is worth the battle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 From what I understand about the whole Florida St situation, other than the fact that they make the NCAA millions, is that the Seminole tribe in Florida approved the use of the nickname but the main Seminole tribes are in Oklahoma and they are against the use. Since the Seminole tribe closest to the university approves the use, the NCAA is ok with it. Someone may correct me if I am wrong. When the NCAA announced their policy they thought that the Oklahoma tribes were against Florida State using the nickname, and they were going to use that to help force Florida State to change. The NCAA thought that because they had received letters from a tribe member that is an attorney, and they understood that he spoke for the tribe. The Tribal Council in Oklahoma came out right after the NCAA announcement and said that this man did not speak for the tribe, and that they were not against Florida State using the nickname. Therefore the NCAA backed down since they didn't have any backup on the issue, and the standard became a single local tribe. For some reason people still believe that the Oklahoma tribes are against using the name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 the majority of SR tribe is in SD SL should have been enough This alone is worth the battle Spirit Lake would have been enough if they had simply sent a letter before the original deadline. They didn't. UND sued to force the issue. In the settlement of the lawsuit the NCAA demanded both Spirit Lake and Standing Rock in exchange for giving UND an extra 3 years to get approval (actually it was an extra 4+ years because the original deadline was earlier in 2006). That is why Standing Rock became the issue, Spirit Lake didn't get on board until 2009. Things have deadlines, UND couldn't get the necessary approvals for either deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxfan512 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I think the fact that the Seminole tribe endorses the use of their name by Florida State would make their situation a little different. We have the endorsement of Spirit Lake, but not Standing Rock, so that would be interesting. Lets change our name to the University of North Dakota Spirit Lake Fighting Sioux, I would be interested to know how that would be received by the NCAA, seeing as it would be in compliance with there rule of obtaining approval. Obviously, this would still have political issues; just a fun argument to make . . . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Ranger Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 When the NCAA announced their policy they thought that the Oklahoma tribes were against Florida State using the nickname, and they were going to use that to help force Florida State to change. The NCAA thought that because they had received letters from a tribe member that is an attorney, and they understood that he spoke for the tribe. The Tribal Council in Oklahoma came out right after the NCAA announcement and said that this man did not speak for the tribe, and that they were not against Florida State using the nickname. Therefore the NCAA backed down since they didn't have any backup on the issue, and the standard became a single local tribe. For some reason people still believe that the Oklahoma tribes are against using the name. Thanks for clearing that up. I always heard the Oklahoma tribes were against the use. Either way I find it hard to believe the NCAA would have gone hard after a school like Florida St that generates them so much money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishSiouxFan Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Honestly, I'm ready to move on. I am absolutely sick hearing about this over and over, I hope it is finally over and put to rest this summer so we can focus on building a fierce athletic tradition in sports other than just hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Lets change our name to the University of North Dakota Spirit Lake Fighting Sioux, I would be interested to know how that would be received by the NCAA, seeing as it would be in compliance with there rule of obtaining approval. Obviously, this would still have political issues; just a fun argument to make . . I made that argument for months & still think it would have a shot - another reason to vote No & save the name - maybe someone will get off their butts & try to make it happen You would think the Alumni would be the one with the resources & credentials to ask this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Lets change our name to the University of North Dakota Spirit Lake Fighting Sioux, I would be interested to know how that would be received by the NCAA, seeing as it would be in compliance with there rule of obtaining approval. Obviously, this would still have political issues; just a fun argument to make . . I made that argument for months & still think it would have a shot - another reason to vote No & save the name - maybe someone will get off their butts & try to make it happen You would think the Alumni would be the one with the resources & credentials to ask this The NCAA was asked about this during the meeting with the North Dakota delegation last August. They said that they would not accept that because the settlement deadline for obtaining approval had passed and this wasn't part of the settlement. So the answer is no, the University of North Dakota Spirit Lake Fighting Sioux would not be acceptable to the NCAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchmaker49 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 the majority of SR tribe is in SD SL should have been enough This alone is worth the battle The difference is SR were the Fighting Sioux, fought LtCol. Custer and such. Whereas the SL tribe were more the Wandering Sioux and did not even come to North Dakota from Minnesota until around 20 years before UND was founded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxfan512 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 The NCAA was asked about this during the meeting with the North Dakota delegation last August. They said that they would not accept that because the settlement deadline for obtaining approval had passed and this wasn't part of the settlement. So the answer is no, the University of North Dakota Spirit Lake Fighting Sioux would not be acceptable to the NCAA. Ha, the NCAA is such a joke. They really do have too much power for their own good. These people are just pathetic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Ha, the NCAA is such a joke. They really do have too much power for their own good. These people are just pathetic. Their members give them that power. And considering the overwhelming majority that passed the policy making procedure after UND sued, I don't see that changing any time soon. They make too much money for the big schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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