Conference Realignments - Take 2

[AJS]

On 8/11/2023 at 6:37 PM, Sioux>Bison said:

Yeah but NDSU can afford to fund a higher FBS budget. UND is about maxed out. We don’t have a non profit paying some of the bills. Take away hockey spending and our budgets are similar to except we rely on student fees and state funding more

The last sentence is absolutely true. Also, NDSU does get a lot more out of Teammakers than the Champions Club.

Are you relying on your last point (student fees / state funding) as to why NDSU could afford to fund a higher FBS budget? Why is UND about maxed out? If you listen to the NDSU propaganda machine The Forum, you will come to the conclusion that NDSU has more money than they know what to do with. Or that the big $ are just waiting to be donated once they go FBS. Why take away hockey spending? 

I'm kind of all over the place. I'm not even going to argue that NDSU isn't in a better Athletic financial place, but is actually that much better? I also really don't get the maxed out comment with UND. 

[Kab]

On 8/11/2023 at 6:37 PM, Sioux>Bison said:

Yeah but NDSU can afford to fund a higher FBS budget. UND is about maxed out. We don’t have a non profit paying some of the bills. Take away hockey spending and our budgets are similar to except we rely on student fees and state funding more

I guess the only way to know is to get Josh Gallion and Rob Port to come in and tell everyone where things sit

[UND08]

46 minutes ago, Kab said:

I guess the only way to know is to get Josh Gallion and Rob Port to come in and tell everyone where things sit

Be careful what you wish for...

[UND1983]

On 8/12/2023 at 11:35 PM, Sioux>Bison said:

The one that cost almost double of Washington States indoor practice facility?

It cost double because they built it at the worst time ever for material pricing.  Look at it.

[Sioux>Bison]

2 hours ago, AJS said:

The last sentence is absolutely true. Also, NDSU does get a lot more out of Teammakers than the Champions Club.

Are you relying on your last point (student fees / state funding) as to why NDSU could afford to fund a higher FBS budget? Why is UND about maxed out? If you listen to the NDSU propaganda machine The Forum, you will come to the conclusion that NDSU has more money than they know what to do with. Or that the big $ are just waiting to be donated once they go FBS. Why take away hockey spending? 

I'm kind of all over the place. I'm not even going to argue that NDSU isn't in a better Athletic financial place, but is actually that much better? I also really don't get the maxed out comment with UND. 

NDSU can afford FBS because they have more big donors and untapped student fees they can draw from. UND doesn’t seem to have the big football donors that can afford to take UND to the FBS. Champions Club is a big sign of the difference. 
 

I think UND is maxed out on state funding and student fees. The money needed to go to the FBS has to come from donors or increased income from football attendance etc. UND would need the fans support that NDSU gets. NDSU cannot afford FBS without their big donors as their tickets, teammakers, etc. is maxed out. 

[fightingsioux4life]

7 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

NDSU can afford FBS because they have more big donors and untapped student fees they can draw from. UND doesn’t seem to have the big football donors that can afford to take UND to the FBS. Champions Club is a big sign of the difference. 
 

I think UND is maxed out on state funding and student fees. The money needed to go to the FBS has to come from donors or increased income from football attendance etc. UND would need the fans support that NDSU gets. NDSU cannot afford FBS without their big donors as their tickets, teammakers, etc. is maxed out. 

FBS is insanely expensive. The only way any of the Dakota 4 (UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU) are moving up is if they do it together and use their leverage to form a new FBS conference. Otherwise, it ain't happening.

[Sioux>Bison]

3 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

FBS is insanely expensive. The only way any of the Dakota 4 (UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU) are moving up is if they do it together and use their leverage to form a new FBS conference. Otherwise, it ain't happening.

Only way UND and SDSU move up is if it’s all the Dakota teams. NDSU can do it alone but might be the next Idaho if they are not careful.

[Sioux>Bison]

1 hour ago, UND1983 said:

It cost double because they built it at the worst time ever for material pricing.  Look at it.

But it was still more expensive than a FBS school’s facility. That says something, but what UND is building is nothing to sneeze at either 

[homer]

19 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

NDSU can afford FBS because they have more big donors and untapped student fees they can draw from. UND doesn’t seem to have the big football donors that can afford to take UND to the FBS. Champions Club is a big sign of the difference. 
 

I think UND is maxed out on state funding and student fees. The money needed to go to the FBS has to come from donors or increased income from football attendance etc. UND would need the fans support that NDSU gets. NDSU cannot afford FBS without their big donors as their tickets, teammakers, etc. is maxed out. 

Don’t students vote on the fee allocation part??

[Sioux>Bison]

2 minutes ago, homer said:

Don’t students vote on the fee allocation part??

Yes and they voted it down last time

[homer]

9 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Yes and they voted it down last time

So are they really “untapped”?

[Sioux>Bison]

1 minute ago, homer said:

So are they really “untapped”?

Not untappable, but not easily tapped unless you ask Lakes

[SIOUXFAN97]

17 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Yes and they voted it down last time

they being ndac?

[fightingsioux4life]

1 hour ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Only way UND and SDSU move up is if it’s all the Dakota teams. NDSU can do it alone but might be the next Idaho if they are not careful.

Who is going to take NDSU with their geographical challenges?

And being the next Idaho is not very attractive.

[Sioux>Bison]

1 hour ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Who is going to take NDSU with their geographical challenges?

And being the next Idaho is not very attractive.

Any G5 could take them for a football only invite. I’m not saying it’s likely or I think it should happen but it could happen . Odds of a full invite are even less likely. To deny it could ever happen is repeating the failure to move up to D1 when NDSU did.

[Sioux>Bison]

2 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

they being ndac?

Yup their student body voted it down. UND student government approved it, not sure it even went to a student body vote

that was the Bakke / Hauschild administration , hope Matt is doing well too 

[FSSD]

46 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Any G5 could take them for a football only invite. I’m not saying it’s likely or I think it should happen but it could happen . Odds of a full invite are even less likely. To deny it could ever happen is repeating the failure to move up to D1 when NDSU did.

I believe current rules do not allow Football only.  So, you should not assume this position as a starting point.  A football only invite would have to be approved by the NCAA. 

[The Sicatoka]

Hawaii is MWC for football only, Big West otherwise. 

No new single-sport conferences are allowed. The NCHC just beat that rule change. 

[FSSD]

2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Hawaii is MWC for football only, Big West otherwise. 

No new single-sport conferences are allowed. The NCHC just beat that rule change. 

Correct, they (Hawaii) and the conference received an exemption from the NCAA due to extenuating circumstances.  You also have Navy (AAC/PL).  I don't think NDSU will get the same treatment.

[nodak651]

2 hours ago, FSSD said:

I believe current rules do not allow Football only.  So, you should not assume this position as a starting point.  A football only invite would have to be approved by the NCAA. 

I don't think that's correct.  There's a moratorium on new single sport conferences and its set to be revisited in January (it's been extended a bunch due to ongoing restructuring of the NCAA).

[Sioux>Bison]

19 minutes ago, FSSD said:

Correct, they (Hawaii) and the conference received an exemption from the NCAA due to extenuating circumstances.  You also have Navy (AAC/PL).  I don't think NDSU will get the same treatment.

Hawaii doesn’t have any exemption to be in the MWC for just football. It was a conference decision. Football only invites exist in other conferences too and require no permission from the NCAA.

 

where the heck did you get this misinformation from?

[FSSD]

1 hour ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Hawaii doesn’t have any exemption to be in the MWC for just football. It was a conference decision. Football only invites exist in other conferences too and require no permission from the NCAA.

 

where the heck did you get this misinformation from?

Well, shame on me I guess.  On the AnyGivenSaturday site, I was told FBS (G5 and P5) conferences are all sports conferences and football only affiliations are not allowed.  I will have go back and DM the source.  Typically AGS is fairly good about football information.  I will let you know what he comes back with..  the person who posted the information is fairly reliable.  I do believe that he has worked in an athletics office and has been fairly connected at his school based on his previous postings.

[Sioux>Bison]

22 minutes ago, FSSD said:

Well, shame on me I guess.  On the AnyGivenSaturday site, I was told FBS (G5 and P5) conferences are all sports conferences and football only affiliations are not allowed.  I will have go back and DM the source.  Typically AGS is fairly good about football information.  I will let you know what he comes back with..  the person who posted the information is fairly reliable.  I do believe that he has worked in an athletics office and has been fairly connected at his school based on his previous postings.

They were probably talking about D1 for a sport and a lower division for the rest of the sports. The Fargo media wouldn’t be peddling it as a possibility if it needed some hard to get exemption. 

[FSSD]

55 minutes ago, Sioux>Bison said:

They were probably talking about D1 for a sport and a lower division for the rest of the sports. The Fargo media wouldn’t be peddling it as a possibility if it needed some hard to get exemption. 

No, it was specific about the Bison and joining the MWC as a football only.

[The Sicatoka]

To count as a conference member for FBS conference membership status you must be all sports. The minimum is eight full members. A FB only member doesn't help a conference getting near the minimum number of teams to stay considered. Hawaii does not count as an MWC member toward the minimum. 

The "exemption" Hawaii got was from the MWC in that they are only FB and not req'd to have all sports in MWC.