Conference Realignments - Take 2

[jdub27]

I don't know what is going on with Summit, not sure why UND didn't even get an invite to be a baseball affiliate. I do think it was a big mistake to put the basketball tournament at SF for an extended period of time. It should rotate at least due to the league geography. I am starting to see the wisdom in playing at campus sites.

Tom Douple, is that you??

[bincitysioux]

I don't know what is going on with Summit, not sure why UND didn't even get an invite to be a baseball affiliate.

I do not know if North Dakota did or did not get an invite to the Summit for baseball. I would not be surprised if Douple refused to pursue UND even as an affiliate, given the crap-storm he created surrounding the nickname issue. If they did in fact extend an invite to North Dakota for baseball, I would not be surprised if Brian Faison and Robert Kelley told him to take a hike, given the crap-storm that Douple created surrounding the nickname issue.

Faison has a lot of contempt for inept conference commissioners. He spear-headed the National Collegiate Hockey Conference, and one of the reasons that he publicly stated for doing so was because he questioned the leadership of the WCHA. When UND chose to join the Big Sky one day before Douple and other Summit officials were to be in Grand Forks for the site-visit, one of the reasons he gave publicly for choosing the Big Sky was that he is "very impressed" with Big Sky commissioner Doug Fullerton.

Now, we all know that the biggest reason that UND chose the Big Sky was for football. My point is that Faison has never been shy about criticizing conference commissioners in public, Tom Douple being one of them.

I will say this though: If Douple was too proud to pursue UND for baseball affiliation, that is really too bad for the members of the Summit because if he did not, he's obviously letting emotions get in the way of improving the league. By the same token if Faison and/or Kelley were too proud to accept an invitation to the Summit for baseball, that is really too bad for North Dakota baseball, because they'd obviously be letting emotions get in the way of improving the baseball program. I've said many times that baseball doesn't work at North Dakota, but it would work far better in the Summit that it will in the WAC. And the Summit NEEDS baseball schools. Same could even be said for swimming. I believe the Summit is near the minimum for swimming members, and that would also be a better fit for UND than are the WAC and MPSF.

I do think it was a big mistake to put the basketball tournament at SF for an extended period of time. It should rotate at least due to the league geography. I am starting to see the wisdom in playing at campus sites.

I'm of the opinion that moving the Summit tourney to Sioux Falls for the long term was a factor in Oral Roberts departing the league. There were other factors, but that didn't help. I believe the Tulsa area hosted it before it was moved to South Dakota. On the other hand, I also think that played a small part into cementing South Dakota as a member, when they were ready to bolt. But by all accounts, the tourney in SF has been a smashing success as far as attendance goes.

Tourney locations for low-major leagues like the Big Sky and Summit are a bit of conundrum. The Big Sky is looking at going to a neutral or pre-determined site as we speak. Both formats have their positives and negatives. I kind of like what Big Ten Hockey is going to do, rotating between St. Paul and Detroit.

[jacksfan29]

What "cemented" USD as a member of the Summit (in which they had already accepted membership before Fullerton attempted to poach them) was the invite to the MVFC. USD did not want to be part of the Big Sky. They can't afford the travel. Their wish was always an invite into the MVFC where expenses would be less, and where they could resume their rivalry with SDSU. Which is still the only game USD even comes close to selling out in any sport.

As for the tourney in Sioux Falls. It is sold out and will continue to be sold out for most sessions in years to come. That's a good thing. Most mid-major conferences would die for the kind of attendance the Summit tourney generates. If the Big Sky goes to a neutral site look for it to be in Utah or close enough to Montana so the UM fans can drive. UM and Weber are the only two schools who have a following large enough to fill a neutral venue that holds more then a few thousand fans.

[FargoBison]

I'm of the opinion that moving the Summit tourney to Sioux Falls for the long term was a factor in Oral Roberts departing the league. There were other factors, but that didn't help. I believe the Tulsa area hosted it before it was moved to South Dakota. On the other hand, I also think that played a small part into cementing South Dakota as a member, when they were ready to bolt. But by all accounts, the tourney in SF has been a smashing success as far as attendance goes.

Tourney locations for low-major leagues like the Big Sky and Summit are a bit of conundrum. The Big Sky is looking at going to a neutral or pre-determined site as we speak. Both formats have their positives and negatives. I kind of like what Big Ten Hockey is going to do, rotating between St. Paul and Detroit.

Yeah I think it played a role as well, ORU was used to hosting it and now it seems like it will never leave SF. Plus SDSU upset them one year and that probably even left more of a sour taste in their mouth.

I do agree, the Big 10 has it right. Rotating between the east and west in the Big 10 will keep everyone happier. The Summit should do the same thing.

I'm not really impressed by Douple either to tell you the truth.

[FSSD]

There was no incentives given by NDSU to any conference.

Some MVFC schools didn't want NDSU in the conference because they didn't want to add another strong program. Travel became an issue when USD was invited and some schools were given some kind of guarantee of only making one Dakota trip per year.

I thought that the original invite was for SDSU only. The only reason that NDSU got in was because SDSU said, "Package Deal - both or none". NDSU rode SDSU's coat tails to get into the MVFC.

[bincitysioux]

What "cemented" USD as a member of the Summit (in which they had already accepted membership before Fullerton attempted to poach them) was the invite to the MVFC. USD did not want to be part of the Big Sky. They can't afford the travel. Their wish was always an invite into the MVFC where expenses would be less, and where they could resume their rivalry with SDSU. Which is still the only game USD even comes close to selling out in any sport.

As for the tourney in Sioux Falls. It is sold out and will continue to be sold out for most sessions in years to come. That's a good thing. Most mid-major conferences would die for the kind of attendance the Summit tourney generates. If the Big Sky goes to a neutral site look for it to be in Utah or close enough to Montana so the UM fans can drive. UM and Weber are the only two schools who have a following large enough to fill a neutral venue that holds more then a few thousand fans.

I understand completely what you are saying. Note that I said "small part". Make no mistake, though, that if South Dakota gave their University Presidents the same authority that North Dakota does, that USD would have just finished up their first season as a member of the Big Sky. There would have been no time for the 11th hour MVFC deal. IMO, the economic impact to the state of South Dakota and the city of Sioux Falls for having the Summit Tourney cemented there weighed heavily on the Regents. If Regent approval for a change wasn't required, North Dakota and South Dakota would have had joint press conferences with the Big Sky in November of 2010. Again, I said small part. I agree that USD is far better off financially in the Summit/MVFC.

As far as tourney sites go, again, I agree with you. I think especially in the Big Sky's case, the campus site format works best due to the expansive geography of the league. If it did go to a neutral site, I would think ONLY either Salt Lake City, or Boise would be the best locations. Both locales are an easy drive for Weber, Montana, and Idaho. It has to be close enough for Weber and Griz fans to travel. Sioux Falls works well for the Summit because 4 schools are less than 3 hours away.

[SiouxVolley]

I've said many times that baseball doesn't work at North Dakota, but it would work far better in the Summit that it will in the WAC. And the Summit NEEDS baseball schools. Same could even be said for swimming. I believe the Summit is near the minimum for swimming members, and that would also be a better fit for UND than are the WAC and MPSF.

Think the WAC is far better for recruiting for swimming and baseball, as even with a weakened WAC those two sports are still strong. The WAC is also far better for baseball because conference games can be scheduled in southern locations earlier in the season. If UND had been in the Summit this year, nobody in the Summit would play for another week.

I'm of the opinion that moving the Summit tourney to Sioux Falls for the long term was a factor in Oral Roberts departing the league. There were other factors, but that didn't help. I believe the Tulsa area hosted it before it was moved to South Dakota. On the other hand, I also think that played a small part into cementing South Dakota as a member, when they were ready to bolt. But by all accounts, the tourney in SF has been a smashing success as far as attendance goes.

Tourney locations for low-major leagues like the Big Sky and Summit are a bit of conundrum. The Big Sky is looking at going to a neutral or pre-determined site as we speak. Both formats have their positives and negatives. I kind of like what Big Ten Hockey is going to do, rotating between St. Paul and Detroit.

The Summit has to have a predetermined location for several reasons: the league needs money (has no income from TV), travel to places like Centenary or S Utah would have been too expensive on little notice, and the league has a lot of teams with no fan base or that play in a tiny gym. The Big Sky has some of the same issues, but Weber St and Montana are usually the top teams that provide a decent gate. The talk of a central location for the Big Sky probably heated up when UND showed it has potential to host.

[bincitysioux]

Think the WAC is far better for recruiting for swimming and baseball, as even with a weakened WAC those two sports are still strong. The WAC is also far better for baseball because conference games can be scheduled in southern locations earlier in the season. If UND had been in the Summit this year, nobody in the Summit would play for another week.

I just consider travel. For baseball, if you cancel home games due to weather, they are fairly easy to make-up if the opponent is a bus ride away rather than an airplane ride away. We saw this in the NCC. With WAC affilitation I see cancellations. With Summit affiliation, I'd see postponements.

As far as swimming, I admit I'd just see travel savings.

I'm speaking from a purely financial perspective. These two sports generate absolutely zero income for the University unlike hockey, football, basketball, even volleyball. So in my eyes, mitigating expenses is paramount............

[SiouxVolley]

I just consider travel. For baseball, if you cancel home games due to weather, they are fairly easy to make-up if the opponent is a bus ride away rather than an airplane ride away. We saw this in the NCC. With WAC affilitation I see cancellations. With Summit affiliation, I'd see postponements.

As far as swimming, I admit I'd just see travel savings.

I'm speaking from a purely financial perspective. These two sports generate absolutely zero income for the University unlike hockey, football, basketball, even volleyball. So in my eyes, mitigating expenses is paramount............

See your points, but if we're going to participate in a sport, would rather they be recruiting and playing at the highest levels possible.

[southpaw]

Perhaps Faison saw the instability of the Summit and decided to pass instead of potentially needing to find another conference in two years and with 4-5 other teams trying to do the same.

[Bison Dan]

Perhaps Faison saw the instability of the Summit and decided to pass instead of potentially needing to find another conference in two years and with 4-5 other teams trying to do the same.

Yeah your great AD is clairvoyant. Your whole athletic dept from hockey to swimming is mediocre to poor. Did the soccer team even win a game? You can't expect excellence on the cheap. By the way the only reason you got a invite to the BSC is because the Montana's were thinking of moving up.

[Cratter]

Love your interest in North Dakota's largest, oldest, highest rated academic school in the state. Does Fargo have any championships at the NCAA's highest level yet?

[Cratter]

The only reason Fargo got into the Big Sky....oops nevermind.

[darell1976]

Yeah your great AD is clairvoyant. Your whole athletic dept from hockey to swimming is mediocre to poor. Did the soccer team even win a game? You can't expect excellence on the cheap. By the way the only reason you got a invite to the BSC is because the Montana's were thinking of moving up.

Doug Fullerton, Big Sky commissioner, said school presidents want to position the league as a major player in the west in the Football Championship Subdivision.

Engstrom said there were three keys to his decision -- he wanted to maintain the cross-state football rivalry with Montana State; he wanted the Grizzlies to compete against institutions with similar academic missions; and he wanted to maintain the prestige and integrity the program has demonstrated.

Our whole athletic dept is mediocre to poor? So our mediocre to poor VB, WBB, and baseball team beat your high and mighty program. Thanks again Dan for your interest in UND athletics...I hear Bisonville mooing your name in the background, you better run along now.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5753330

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5792014

[Cratter]

The University of North Dakota: the only school that could keep national power Montana in the Big Sky.

[darell1976]

The University of North Dakota: the only school that could keep national power Montana in the Big Sky.

And to think Montana would rather play its cross-state rival than move up....I didn't think teams did that.

[Cratter]

It might be different if one team constantly lives in the shadows of another.

[GeauxSioux]

http://www.loyolapho...lley-conference

Despite several statements from university officials over the last few months claiming that Loyola was content in remaining in the Horizon League, The Phoenix has learned that Loyola is being considered for a place in the Missouri Valley Athletic Conference (MVC).

After numerous articles were published speculating that Loyola was in the mix of conference realignment, Loyola President Fr. Michael Garanzini, S.J., finally confirmed these speculations, saying in an email statement to The Phoenix, “Yes, we are being considered.”

[darell1976]

http://www.loyolapho...lley-conference

So if the MVC gets UIC and Loyola, and if and when Detroit leaves (IMO pretty soon), that leaves the Horizon down to 6 members:

Green Bay

Milwaukee

Cleveland St

Valpo

Wright St

Youngstown St

6 Horizon and when Oakland departs the SL will have 6 full DI members 7 with Denver...those two conferences might as well merge and have divisions.

[homer]

Yeah your great AD is clairvoyant. Your whole athletic dept from hockey to swimming is mediocre to poor. Did the soccer team even win a game? You can't expect excellence on the cheap. By the way the only reason you got a invite to the BSC is because the Montana's were thinking of moving up.

#butthurt- Your obsession has really been showing through the last couple days.

[darell1976]

#butthurt- Your obsession has really been showing through the last couple days.

Because he knows his conference is dying and is jealous that UND got an invite to the BSC and NDSU failed at two attempts to get in.

[JohnboyND7]

Because he knows his conference is dying and is jealous that UND got an invite to the BSC and NDSU failed at two attempts to get in.

I don't know too many people still sad about that.

[dakotadan]

I don't know too many people who will still publically admit they are still sad about that because their bruised ego gets in the way.

FIFY

[FSSD]

So if the MVC gets UIC and Loyola, and if and when Detroit leaves (IMO pretty soon), that leaves the Horizon down to 6 members:

Green Bay

Milwaukee

Cleveland St

Valpo

Wright St

Youngstown St

6 Horizon and when Oakland departs the SL will have 6 full DI members 7 with Denver...those two conferences might as well merge and have divisions.

Not sure if the Horizon is going to just merge with the Summit. Horizon is going to be making some nice money off of the back to back National Championship game runs. I think the Horizon received $4.6 million this year and the Summit League made $1.4 million (same amount as the Big Sky) .

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

Looks like Loyola to the MVC: http://www.ksdk.com/sports/article/375070/6/Loyola-Chicago-to-join-the-Missouri-Valley-Conference