darell1976 Posted November 12, 2013 Author Posted November 12, 2013 If Monday comes and Muss is still the coach, then we need to formally change this topic to FIRE FAISON...If the AD can't see what's happening to the program, then he has to go as well.... I don't think we go that far. You have to look at what Faison has done for UND athletics as a whole, not just football. Where is our men's basketball and women's volleyball team at, look where the hockey team is, where S&D, Golf, baseball. He is the Athletic Director, not the football director. He did screw up with the contract extension after winning the share of the GWFC title, so his hands may be tied through 2015 unless he can get permission to buy out the contract. I know UND fans want Muss fired (me included) but somehow I have a feeling with the contract extension it may not happen. I guess we will find out after the Davis game.
UNDBIZ Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Based on your value system, we should join the Pioneer Football League, where no athletic scholarships are involved and it doesn't matter how bad they are because everyone else in the conference is just as bad. But we aren't in the PFL. We are in the Big Sky Conference and we didn't move up to be mediocre year after year after year. It took NDSU three years to reach the playoffs for the first time. They have had one losing season since moving up to Division I FCS (in 2009 they finished 3-8). This program has done nothing but deteriorate since Mussman took over in December 2007. It's been a slow decline, but now we are reaping the harvest of mediocrity. And it is a very bitter harvest for those of us that care about this institution and it's programs. This isn't high school, where all that matters is that the kids have fun. This is FCS football and having a perennially underachieving and irrelevant program year after year is simply not acceptable and must not be allowed to continue. I only have 2 issues with your post. 1. I don't believe we are mediocre right now. I wish we were good enough to be mediocre, but mediocre teams don't get blown out at home multiple times in 1 season. 2. The decline wasn't that slow. We lost to Sioux Falls in Muss's 2nd year, after going 10-2 in Lennon's final season. 1
jdub27 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I don't think we go that far. You have to look at what Faison has done for UND athletics as a whole, not just football. Where is our men's basketball and women's volleyball team at, look where the hockey team is, where S&D, Golf, baseball. He is the Athletic Director, not the football director. He did screw up with the contract extension after winning the share of the GWFC title, so his hands may be tied through 2015 unless he can get permission to buy out the contract. I know UND fans want Muss fired (me included) but somehow I have a feeling with the contract extension it may not happen. I guess we will find out after the Davis game. Please explain how he screwed up the extension.
Shawn-O Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Please explain how he screwed up the extension. Too long. Three years would have been plenty. I know that in college athletics the optics on anything less than five might look bad, so that's arguable. Just my opinion.
jdub27 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Too long. Three years would have been plenty. I know that in college athletics the optics on anything less than five might look bad, so that's arguable. Just my opinion. I can agree on that. A two year extension with the one year remaining, giving him three more years would have been ideal in my mind. My guess is the extra year was added on due to the low increase in pay, not putting as much risk on UND.
jdub27 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I feel that threatening to discontinue football support/season ticket renewal is a bit blatant, but there is a sense of practicality to it. I don't approach this situation saying "If Mussman isn't removed, then I won't attended any more games", because I have acquired a similar mindset rather spontaneously and implicitly. That is, if Mussman is the head coach, i honestly believe UND football will never resume it's rightful tradition. During the Roger Thomas and Dale Lennon days, UND football was expected to compete and produce winning records year in and year out. There were no unrealistic expectations like national championship every single season, but just to expect a quality, competitive product each and every week. That is longer the case, and it really hasn't been the case since Mussman took over. Rather than just going out and getting the job done, the new mindset with Mussman has been patience and excuses, and that's not only among the coaches and players but also among the fans/boosters. That's NOT the UND tradition I grew up around and it's that upsets me dearly. Maybe Faison is taking this program down the New Mexico State football road, which is where his experience lies, but I just hope that's not the case. UND football has the potential to drop completely off the map if a coaching change/culture change doesn't happen. I honesty and objectively believe the football program will never live up to the once proud reputation UND football once had before Mussman took over. Hopefully Faison, who was hired after the Lennon era, can realize the proud history of UND football and appreciate it. If he can't, then the football program will stay mediocre at best. I honestly will not go to any games next year if Mussman stays; not because I'm trying to prove a point, but because I honestly will have no interest not optimism. I will continue to support UND athletics through other sports, but not football. If Faison doesn't care enough to get new leadership for the program, then why should I keep unloading support into the football program. I don't even recognize the current football program/culture, and that in itself should demand change. My hope is that people are actually expressing their opinions and feelings to the athletic department so that they understand this. Not pointing this to you at all, but some of the loudest critics of Mussman haven't or won't even consider actually contacting Faison or someone in the athletic department to voice their concerns. Complaining on a message board won't do anything, calling the athletic department and reasonably voicing your opinion will.
UND-FB-FAN Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Complaining on a message board won't do anything, calling the athletic department and reasonably voicing your opinion will. I understand that as being quite obvious. And for that reason, I have kept in touch with the athletic department regularly. With that being said, I have no insider information or leverage. Therefore, all I can do is wait to see if they agree with my opinion on November 18th.
UND-FB-FAN Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I feel that threatening to discontinue football support/season ticket renewal is a bit blatant, but there is a sense of practicality to it. I don't approach this situation saying "If Mussman isn't removed, then I won't attend any more games", because I have acquired a similar mindset rather spontaneously and implicitly. That is, if Mussman is the head coach, i honestly believe UND football will never resume it's rightful tradition. During the Roger Thomas and Dale Lennon days, UND football was expected to compete and produce winning records year in and year out. There were no unrealistic expectations like national championship every single season, but just to expect a quality, competitive product each and every week. That is no longer the case, and it really hasn't been the case since Mussman took over. Rather than just going out and getting the job done, the new mindset with Mussman has been patience and excuses, and that's not only among the coaches and players but also among the fans/boosters. That's NOT the UND tradition I grew up around and it's that upsets me dearly. Maybe Faison is taking this program down the New Mexico State football road, which is where his experience lies, but I just hope that's not the case. UND football has the potential to drop completely off the map if a coaching change/culture change doesn't happen. I honesty and objectively believe the football program will never live up to the once proud reputation UND football once had before Mussman took over. Hopefully Faison, who was hired after the Lennon era, can realize the proud history of UND football and appreciate it. If he can't, then the football program will stay mediocre at best. I honestly will not go to any games next year if Mussman stays; not because I'm trying to prove a point, but because I honestly will have no interest nor optimism. I will continue to support UND athletics through other sports, but not football. If Faison doesn't care enough to get new leadership for the program, then why should I keep unloading support into the football program. I don't even recognize the current football program/culture, and that in itself should demand change.
fightingsioux4life Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I only have 2 issues with your post. 1. I don't believe we are mediocre right now. I wish we were good enough to be mediocre, but mediocre teams don't get blown out at home multiple times in 1 season. 2. The decline wasn't that slow. We lost to Sioux Falls in Muss's 2nd year, after going 10-2 in Lennon's final season. Good points. I was on the fence with Mussman before the season started. I jumped on the Fire Muss bandwagon after the two home blowout losses to Montana and Montana State. I think some people on here were ahead of the rest of us (me included) when they started questioning Mussman's leadership skills after the Sioux Falls debacle in 2009.
mizzou/sioux Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I don't think we go that far. You have to look at what Faison has done for UND athletics as a whole, not just football. Where is our men's basketball and women's volleyball team at, look where the hockey team is, where S&D, Golf, baseball. He is the Athletic Director, not the football director. He did screw up with the contract extension after winning the share of the GWFC title, so his hands may be tied through 2015 unless he can get permission to buy out the contract. I know UND fans want Muss fired (me included) but somehow I have a feeling with the contract extension it may not happen. I guess we will find out after the Davis game. I also think we have to consider what Faison has done for us as a whole in all sports. When you start tallying it all up I think you'll have to consider it a job well done, perhaps excluding football. Yes, I understand football is the veritable front porch at most schools and perhaps right after hockey at UND. But I think we have to consider there are quite a few outstanding football programs in the Big Sky, the Montana schools, Eastern Washington and Northern Arizona among them. I realize as the saying goes that close only counts in horseshoes. But not so long ago we hung in there pretty well against teams such as Northern Illinois (see where they are today), Fresno State (see where they are today) and San Diego State among others. Give Faison a break.
darell1976 Posted November 12, 2013 Author Posted November 12, 2013 Please explain how he screwed up the extension. Too long. His contract would've ended in 2012, Faison could've just said okay it's your first year in a new conference I will give you 1 or 2 years to turn it around. Not 3 additional years. Tacked on to the 2012 season knowing our defense couldn't stop a 9 man team, and a running game equaling the Miami Dolphins( they had 4 yards rushing last night).
JohnboyND7 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I also think we have to consider what Faison has done for us as a whole in all sports. When you start tallying it all up I think you'll have to consider it a job well done, perhaps excluding football. Yes, I understand football is the veritable front porch at most schools and perhaps right after hockey at UND. But I think we have to consider there are quite a few outstanding football programs in the Big Sky, the Montana schools, Eastern Washington and Northern Arizona among them. I realize as the saying goes that close only counts in horseshoes. But not so long ago we hung in there pretty well against teams such as Northern Illinois (see where they are today), Fresno State (see where they are today) and San Diego State among others. Give Faison a break. and hand grenades
UND92,96 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I also think we have to consider what Faison has done for us as a whole in all sports. When you start tallying it all up I think you'll have to consider it a job well done, perhaps excluding football. Yes, I understand football is the veritable front porch at most schools and perhaps right after hockey at UND. But I think we have to consider there are quite a few outstanding football programs in the Big Sky, the Montana schools, Eastern Washington and Northern Arizona among them. I realize as the saying goes that close only counts in horseshoes. But not so long ago we hung in there pretty well against teams such as Northern Illinois (see where they are today), Fresno State (see where they are today) and San Diego State among others. Give Faison a break. This is one of the things I can't understand. The transition UND teams that hung with those decent FBS teams were presumably not more talented than the current team. So why have we gone from being able to compete relatively well against teams that should be at least comparable to the current Montana, Montana St. and EWU teams (if not better), to being routinely blown out by these types of teams? Why have we struggled to find a quality every-down running back since Josh Murray? Why can't our offensive line open holes now, but could a few years ago against Fresno St.? Why could we negate a future NFL back like Baron Batch, but now routinely give up 150-plus yards to less or similarly talented backs?
geaux_sioux Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 This is one of the things I can't understand. The transition UND teams that hung with those decent FBS teams were presumably not more talented than the current team. So why have we gone from being able to compete relatively well against teams that should be at least comparable to the current Montana, Montana St. and EWU teams (if not better), to being routinely blown out by these types of teams? Why have we struggled to find a quality every-down running back since Josh Murray? Why can't our offensive line open holes now, but could a few years ago against Fresno St.? Why could we negate a future NFL back like Baron Batch, but now routinely give up 150-plus yards to less or similarly talented backs? Look at who was at LB in those games where we competed. Now look at LB. Same for DE. Also DT. Brock Bellmore was a brick wall against the run, he was super quick and was stronger than anyone he played against. Hendrickson Daniels Goertz were all good against the run and were bigger and more athletic than who we have this year. Benjamin was a beast and was smart so was Boyle. Throw in Hawkins and Belotti at safety who were good sized and could tackle and you've got what was a really good run defense. Their problem was they had the same corners we have this year.
UND92,96 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Look at who was at LB in those games where we competed. Now look at LB. Same for DE. Also DT. Brock Bellmore was a brick wall against the run, he was super quick and was stronger than anyone he played against. Hendrickson Daniels Goertz were all good against the run and were bigger and more athletic than who we have this year. Benjamin was a beast and was smart so was Boyle. Throw in Hawkins and Belotti at safety who were good sized and could tackle and you've got what was a really good run defense. Their problem was they had the same corners we have this year. So is the problem that there simply aren't Hendrickson, Bellmore, Boyle, etc. types in our traditional recruiting areas anymore, or are we just letting them slip through the cracks and they end up playing in the NSIC? I don't follow dII ball anymore, but I've often wondered how many players UND has overlooked that end up excelling there who could have really contributed here.
geaux_sioux Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 So is the problem that there simply aren't Hendrickson or Boyle types in our traditional recruiting areas anymore, or are we just letting them slip through the cracks and they end up playing in the NSIC? I don't follow dII ball anymore, but I've often wondered how many players UND has overlooked that end up excelling there who could have really contributed here. Players like Bellmore don't come out of ND very often. I would bet that there are a lot of Hendrickson types (a little short but athletic and tough and possessing great instincts) in this area that just need to be developed. I doubt anyone was jumping for joy when he committed but after a couple years they couldn't keep him off the field because he kept making plays and forced their hand. There are always Goertz type players coming out of Wisconsin and Edwards could be better than Boyle or Benjamin ever were if he can get their mental edge for understanding the game. I'm sure we miss on a player or two because of going elsewhere but we've seemed to have made up for it with players like Kuksa (hope he'll be ok) and Reyes and Norberg. It's not like we haven't hit on players from ND though. Iverson is a stud and Barton and Carr have started down the stretch.
geaux_sioux Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Now that I think of it there was a Bellmore type player that came out of GF last year. He's doing track at UM though...
Cratter Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Mussmans contract extension by Faisons own words well sorry we can't pay our coaches more so here is a contract extension.
zonadub Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 So is the problem that there simply aren't Hendrickson, Bellmore, Boyle, etc. types in our traditional recruiting areas anymore, or are we just letting them slip through the cracks and they end up playing in the NSIC? I don't follow dII ball anymore, but I've often wondered how many players UND has overlooked that end up excelling there who could have really contributed here. The talent must still be there... Mankato is ranked #1 and Duluth #5. I think Whitewater is up there too.
UNDBIZ Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 The talent must still be there... Mankato is ranked #1 and Duluth #5. I think Whitewater is up there too. Sounds like they'd all beat UND by 2 scores.
siouxjoy Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 So is the problem that there simply aren't Hendrickson, Bellmore, Boyle, etc. types in our traditional recruiting areas anymore, or are we just letting them slip through the cracks and they end up playing in the NSIC? Players like Bellmore don't come out of ND very often. I would bet that there are a lot of Hendrickson types (a little short but athletic and tough and possessing great instincts) in this area that just need to be developed. I know it has been stated before, but I think at least part of what is lacking is players with that "fire in the belly" drive. It's probably impossible to really recruit that, but it can be fostered once they get to campus. If players aren't seeing it in their leadership, they aren't as likely to be showing it on the field.
BobIwabuchiFan Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 My take-away from this season comes from the parents of players who tailgate at my setup every week...The parents don't have bad things to say about the HC, but they sure don't have positive things to say either. I know most them won't come out and complain about the coach, but comments I get from them seem to favor that the team really doesn't respect the coach we have now and their lack of respect for him is coming from their sons who play for him. When I combine this with the inability of this coach to interact with the tailgaters as he walks by, it gives me a pretty bad feeling about his ability to influence the players and the coaches. I truly believe he isn't doing this to destroy Sioux football, I just think he is not the right guy for our program or to be a HC...my 2 cents. As for Faison, he better take care of this quickly or his name will be up on these boards and I can tell you many people will be asking for his head if we have to go through this type of play next year!
Bidago Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I tend to agree with this statement. I think there a few guys that are just completely natural "gamers" i.e. - kuksa. then there ate the rest of the athletes who need to be motivated and kept from distractions(school, girls, parties, etc.) that is what I think everyone is trying to say about muss. you can do all the woulda,, coulda, shoulda's you want and statistical analysis on how long it takes to develop programs etc. etc. muss just have mental make-up to be a natural born leader. jmho
CAS4127 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Well, if it makes you feel any better, you did contribute the firing of Valpo's coach: http://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2013-11-10/valparaiso-fires-head-coach-carlson-had-3-40-record-fourth-season Also, if I were Faison, I would be aiming toward this guy: http://www.ferrisstatebulldogs.com/sports/fball/coaches/Annese_Tony
Shawn-O Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Well, if it makes you feel any better, you did contribute the firing of Valpo's coach: http://www.ncaa.com/...d-fourth-season Also, if I were Faison, I would be aiming toward this guy: http://www.ferrissta...hes/Annese_Tony Or maybe Chris Klieman.
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