COMMITTED UND Recruits

[ChadR]

What are the odds a guy like Mark Senden uses his extra year and stays next season? Great college player, but not an NHL'er. We could use a guy like him next season.

[AJS]

8 hours ago, ChadR said:

What are the odds a guy like Mark Senden uses his extra year and stays next season? Great college player, but not an NHL'er. We could use a guy like him next season.

I don’t see it happening. Not worth potentially losing recruits that could be great 3/4 year guys, for an extra year of Senden. Not a knock on Senden, I would say that for any player. Too solid a class of Forwars recruits.

[scpa0305]

Getting slightly concerned with next years incoming recruits. Outside of Blake and Bowen (if still committed) no one seems overly ready to take on any significant role. Strinden looks to be a nice bottom 6 depth player out of the gate. Bubs needs to flip some kids.

edit- forgot about spicer. He’ll get a shot as a top 6 F. He’s young though.

[AJS]

31 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

Getting slightly concerned with next years incoming recruits. Outside of Blake and Bowen (if still committed) no one seems overly ready to take on any significant role. Strinden looks to be a nice bottom 6 depth player out of the gate. Bubs needs to flip some kids.

edit- forgot about spicer. He’ll get a shot as a top 6 F. He’s young though.

Really? I'm on the complete opposite side of the spectrum. Taking out Spicer (NTDP) from the USHL point totals, all other incoming recruits are currently in the Top 40 (Blake 2, James 27, Strinden 30, Livanavage 39). Spicer is having a nice year with NTDP. 

Who would you be looking to flip instead of the recruits we have? Not saying of course that they'll be the Top 5 recruits in the country, but I'm not following where any concern would come from. 

What are your thoughts on Dylan James? To me he's right in the wheelhouse of an ideal recruit. Mid-round NHL draft guy, putting up a very respectable PPG his draft year. True freshman.  Is your worry his age? This would be his 2nd full year of Juniors. IMO he's a Top 6 caliber guy, no doubt. 

[scpa0305]

47 minutes ago, AJS said:

Really? I'm on the complete opposite side of the spectrum. Taking out Spicer (NTDP) from the USHL point totals, all other incoming recruits are currently in the Top 40 (Blake 2, James 27, Strinden 30, Livanavage 39). Spicer is having a nice year with NTDP. 

Who would you be looking to flip instead of the recruits we have? Not saying of course that they'll be the Top 5 recruits in the country, but I'm not following where any concern would come from. 

What are your thoughts on Dylan James? To me he's right in the wheelhouse of an ideal recruit. Mid-round NHL draft guy, putting up a very respectable PPG his draft year. True freshman.  Is your worry his age? This would be his 2nd full year of Juniors. IMO he's a Top 6 caliber guy, no doubt. 

Are you saying next year's listed crop is above avg for this program? Compared to previous years? I follow this all fairly closely and it doesnt appear to be shaping up for all that great of an incoming class.

Blake is nice (obv), James is one I'm watching closely (5th-7th is what I'm seeing) and yes he should be a top 6 guy. Strinden seems a bit more "grind" but that's important too, double overager putting up slightly under a ppg. I do like Livanavage a lot! Not sure he creeps into the 2nd round though. Again, Spicer should be nice, but I have this hunch he doesn't really hit for us until is upperclassmen years.

Again, just a bit concerned. Not overly panicked. No high enders other than Blake. Really depends who we lose.

[tnt]

18 hours ago, scpa0305 said:

Getting slightly concerned with next years incoming recruits. Outside of Blake and Bowen (if still committed) no one seems overly ready to take on any significant role. Strinden looks to be a nice bottom 6 depth player out of the gate. Bubs needs to flip some kids.

edit- forgot about spicer. He’ll get a shot as a top 6 F. He’s young though.

Frattin, Malone, Weatherby, Adams, Wilkie, and down the line, you better hope for more of a jump from your other classes than expect huge impact from freshmen.  We have plenty of guys that can make that step, add one guy who surprises and you really have something if Blake can make an impact.  That isn’t taking into account the transfer portal, which could be used if Berry thinks another year would benefit guys, and we know he values that when possible.  Duluth and Minnesota have a lot to replace after this year, and some of their older incoming freshmen haven’t put up any better numbers than our younger recruits. I suspect Bettens, Steeves, Smith and Howard would be in line to come in for Duluth.  Howard could possibly equate to Blake coming in, but I would guess the rest are typical Duluth guys that come in with little fanfare, but just play the way that Sandelin wants them to play and somehow find a way to get it done.  We know where Sandelin got that philosophy. If we keep Schmaltz, Caulfield and Gaber together and get the experience jump from Kunz and Costantini along with Calder possibly staying, that is a great start.  Jamernik has shown an offensive upside as well, and Budy has flashes too. 

 

[AJS]

15 hours ago, scpa0305 said:

Are you saying next year's listed crop is above avg for this program? Compared to previous years? I follow this all fairly closely and it doesnt appear to be shaping up for all that great of an incoming class.

Blake is nice (obv), James is one I'm watching closely (5th-7th is what I'm seeing) and yes he should be a top 6 guy. Strinden seems a bit more "grind" but that's important too, double overager putting up slightly under a ppg. I do like Livanavage a lot! Not sure he creeps into the 2nd round though. Again, Spicer should be nice, but I have this hunch he doesn't really hit for us until is upperclassmen years.

Again, just a bit concerned. Not overly panicked. No high enders other than Blake. Really depends who we lose.

I always take a few different factors into account, (1) Age (2) League (3) Points (4) Draft stock. This specific discussion appears to be concentrating on Forwards only. I'll give a very high overview of how I felt about the last few Freshman forward classes going into their Freshman years (some end up outperforming, while others underperform from your expectations).

2021 Class: 2022 Clearly better. Kunz was the big name for me (.86 PPG draft year in USHL, Mid-Round draft pick). Schmaltz very good production his last year (PPG / 7th round pick). I was worried about Costantini (.59 PPG after being 5th round pick) and Portz (.77 PPG in final eligible year). 

2020 Class: 2022 Better. This class was unique. Gaber (Blake equivalent), Ness (PPG guy), Jamernik (PPG guy AJHL). I liked this class, great production in USHL as veteran players. No NHL draft picks. No way you'd take this class over 2022.

2019 Class: This Class > 2022 (Slightly). Pinto going into Freshman year #1 guy (> Blake). Blaisdell (> James). Spicer (>Caulfield). Strinden (>Albrecht). 

2018 Class: 2022 Clearly Better. Liked Hain (NTDP, Mid-Round Draft), Weatherby (Big BCHL Points, Mid-Round Draft), but didn't like Senden, hated Keane.

Fun discussion. Obviously, only my opinion and some guys outperform (Costantini seems to be on that path), Senden, Jamernik (appears to be better than I thought). Others widely underperformed (still early, but Ness is on that path), Blaisdell.

So, going year by year, absolutely I think the 2022 forward Class is better than average for this program. 2019 I would have taken over it, but not any of the others. Interested to hear where you differentiate. 

[scpa0305]

3 hours ago, AJS said:

I always take a few different factors into account, (1) Age (2) League (3) Points (4) Draft stock. This specific discussion appears to be concentrating on Forwards only. I'll give a very high overview of how I felt about the last few Freshman forward classes going into their Freshman years (some end up outperforming, while others underperform from your expectations).

2021 Class: 2022 Clearly better. Kunz was the big name for me (.86 PPG draft year in USHL, Mid-Round draft pick). Schmaltz very good production his last year (PPG / 7th round pick). I was worried about Costantini (.59 PPG after being 5th round pick) and Portz (.77 PPG in final eligible year). 

2020 Class: 2022 Better. This class was unique. Gaber (Blake equivalent), Ness (PPG guy), Jamernik (PPG guy AJHL). I liked this class, great production in USHL as veteran players. No NHL draft picks. No way you'd take this class over 2022.

2019 Class: This Class > 2022 (Slightly). Pinto going into Freshman year #1 guy (> Blake). Blaisdell (> James). Spicer (>Caulfield). Strinden (>Albrecht). 

2018 Class: 2022 Clearly Better. Liked Hain (NTDP, Mid-Round Draft), Weatherby (Big BCHL Points, Mid-Round Draft), but didn't like Senden, hated Keane.

Fun discussion. Obviously, only my opinion and some guys outperform (Costantini seems to be on that path), Senden, Jamernik (appears to be better than I thought). Others widely underperformed (still early, but Ness is on that path), Blaisdell.

So, going year by year, absolutely I think the 2022 forward Class is better than average for this program. 2019 I would have taken over it, but not any of the others. Interested to hear where you differentiate. 

I am talking about the whole incoming class, not just F. I did see you noted that early in your post though. Also, dont nec agree Spicer over Caufield? Look at the number back then. But again, you can't assess the class without considering D, because that is where our high enders typically come from.

[jk]

It's an interesting exercise because it shows how little we know.  I remember anxiously awaiting the arrival of Blaisdell, Rizzo and Tychonich.  Boy were we internet fans excited when the coaches got those commitments.  And now none of them are here.  Likewise Costantini seemed like an afterthought, penciled into the fourth or fifth line, and he passed the eye test on his first game. 

I will say the staff, going back to Hak, has been good at backfilling for guys who don't pan out, and the portal has given them another avenue to pursue.  

And some classes just take a while.  Last year's seniors were overall a bit of a disappointment through year two, then Adams found another gear, they all matured and we got a couple years of dominance. 

[AJS]

1 hour ago, scpa0305 said:

I am talking about the whole incoming class, not just F. I did see you noted that early in your post though. Also, dont nec agree Spicer over Caufield? Look at the number back then. But again, you can't assess the class without considering D, because that is where our high enders typically come from.

Completely agree. Where I'm not following you there and the incoming class, is unless something completely unexpected happens, they'll only need to fill one for sure (Sanderson), potentially two (Kleven / Frisch leave early, however doubtful) spots. Spot # 1 going to Livanavage that appears to be pretty high end (not Sanderson / Kleven level, but not many are). Spot # 2, Dunbar, who will most likely be drafted this upcoming year, having a solid year. I have a harder time really digging into Defenseman. I just don't see how Livanavage being the Defenseman you bring in is room for concern.

[AJS]

24 minutes ago, jk said:

It's an interesting exercise because it shows how little we know.  I remember anxiously awaiting the arrival of Blaisdell, Rizzo and Tychonich.  Boy were we internet fans excited when the coaches got those commitments.  And now none of them are here.  Likewise Costantini seemed like an afterthought, penciled into the fourth or fifth line, and he passed the eye test on his first game. 

I will say the staff, going back to Hak, has been good at backfilling for guys who don't pan out, and the portal has given them another avenue to pursue.  

And some classes just take a while.  Last year's seniors were overall a bit of a disappointment through year two, then Adams found another gear, they all matured and we got a couple years of dominance. 

As much fun as it is still to follow still, I've definitely backed off on hard judgements, until half way through their Sophomore years. That goes ten fold on recruits until the year prior of them arriving on campus. Then maybe five fold their prior year. Too many times being wrong on what you assumed will do that to a guy. 

[stoneySIOUX]

Perron looking like a blue chippaaaaa

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/hockey/7315425-UND-hockey-may-have-another-great-from-Winnipeg-on-the-way

[scpa0305]

21 hours ago, AJS said:

Completely agree. Where I'm not following you there and the incoming class, is unless something completely unexpected happens, they'll only need to fill one for sure (Sanderson), potentially two (Kleven / Frisch leave early, however doubtful) spots. Spot # 1 going to Livanavage that appears to be pretty high end (not Sanderson / Kleven level, but not many are). Spot # 2, Dunbar, who will most likely be drafted this upcoming year, having a solid year. I have a harder time really digging into Defenseman. I just don't see how Livanavage being the Defenseman you bring in is room for concern.

Sorry I'm checking in a so often so not following along. My point is only to say next year's incoming class doesnt resemble some of the better recruiting classes we've had recently. Blake will be nice, that's obvious, but he's also very slight. It could take him a year or two to get acclimated. None of the incoming kids appear to be 1st-3rd round kids unless they turn it on during the second half. yes some of the kids will get drafted but most are graded C which means they could go 5th-7th or not get drafted at all. If the reason is that we simply won't have the turnover...perfect, that's the answer.

[scpa0305]

15 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Perron looking like a blue chippaaaaa

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/hockey/7315425-UND-hockey-may-have-another-great-from-Winnipeg-on-the-way

This kid is going to be fun to watch!

[jk]

It seems impressive for a small 16 year old.  If I were a skeptic, I'd note that playing with Fantilli probably helps.  But I've never seen him play.  And it is good that he's doing it while being undersized, as opposed to dominating kids physically, which levels out later.  

[gfhockey]

54 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Perron looking like a blue chippaaaaa

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/hockey/7315425-UND-hockey-may-have-another-great-from-Winnipeg-on-the-way

And that’s what we need!

[Tbone]

On 8/1/2021 at 6:57 PM, gfhockey said:

Wouldn’t mind getting a blue chippa or two like shaugs 

Hopefully Perron is as good as shaugs.

 

1 hour ago, gfhockey said:

And that’s what we need!

 

Is this now an endorsement of Perron?

[gfhockey]

I’m just tired of always getting grindaz

[UNDBIZ]

49 minutes ago, gfhockey said:

I’m just tired of always getting grindaz

Especially since they switched from Hugo's bread.

[Tbone]

 2-3 blue chips and the rest of the team a mix of role players and grinders has returned how many championships?
Recently, I am thinking the 2016 Sioux champs and maybe the 03 or 04 gophers have had national known talent and completed the year on top. Some great and talented Denver teams as well. Michigan now has a 4 year window to bring home a couple of championships, and they did not do it last year (Covid the deciding factor)

 Seems like older teams with a good majority of 3-4 year players have had a great deal of success. Thinking Duluth, Providence, Union, Yale and Michigan State. How many blue chip laden teams has Sandy parlayed into a national champ? Or has he done it with a great opportunity and coaching? Barely made some tournaments but put it together late, and with what blue chippers? 

[Kevin G]

21 minutes ago, Tbone said:

 2-3 blue chips and the rest of the team a mix of role players and grinders has returned how many championships?
Recently, I am thinking the 2016 Sioux champs and maybe the 03 or 04 gophers have had national known talent and completed the year on top. Some great and talented Denver teams as well. Michigan now has a 4 year window to bring home a couple of championships, and they did not do it last year (Covid the deciding factor)

 Seems like older teams with a good majority of 3-4 year players have had a great deal of success. Thinking Duluth, Providence, Union, Yale and Michigan State. How many blue chip laden teams has Sandy parlayed into a national champ? Or has he done it with a great opportunity and coaching? Barely made some tournaments but put it together late, and with what blue chippers? 

I agree that most championship teams need a solid core of 3-4 year players. That being said, I think UND still needs more high-end scoring talent amongst its forwards. 

[scpa0305]

40 minutes ago, Tbone said:

 2-3 blue chips and the rest of the team a mix of role players and grinders has returned how many championships?
Recently, I am thinking the 2016 Sioux champs and maybe the 03 or 04 gophers have had national known talent and completed the year on top. Some great and talented Denver teams as well. Michigan now has a 4 year window to bring home a couple of championships, and they did not do it last year (Covid the deciding factor)

 Seems like older teams with a good majority of 3-4 year players have had a great deal of success. Thinking Duluth, Providence, Union, Yale and Michigan State. How many blue chip laden teams has Sandy parlayed into a national champ? Or has he done it with a great opportunity and coaching? Barely made some tournaments but put it together late, and with what blue chippers? 

Yes, we all know this. Simply coming on this forum and mentioning that next year's incoming class may not be the highest rated incoming class we've had doesn't equate to say the program is falling apart. It's simply a discussion point. Being able to come on a public forum to talk about these kind of things is perfectly ok. We're all cheering for the same program.

[scpa0305]

8 minutes ago, Kevin G said:

I agree that most championship teams need a solid core of 3-4 year players. That being said, I think UND still needs more high-end scoring talent amongst its forwards. 

That's what I'm seeing as well, a bit too much meat and potatoes. I've heard this is by design too.

[tnt]

If you look a couple years down the road with Blake, Gaber, Perron, Singleton, James, Spicer, and possibly Panzer, that will be trending on the smaller side.  Not saying the grit isn't in their games, but I'm guessing the coaches are trying to keep some balance as far as size, grit, etc.  

[The Sicatoka]

College hockey is and remains an upperclassman game. 

If you can build a three and four year group and sprinkle some high-enders around it you have something.