Could NDSU ever compete with UND in Hockey?

[Bison101]

Everyone knows that the Hockey shadow has hung over NDSU for quite a while. Hopefully once our transition to DI is over and we are in a conference we can look at Hockey again. My honest question is this. There are five teams in Minnesota and UND that are all recruiting the same area. UND and UM get the cream while the other teams fight over the left over recruits. Could the area handle one more DI Hockey team? If so, could we ever be nationaly successful. the goal of any sport should be to win a national title. Are the powers that be in college hockey so strong that there is just ot room for another program to become good. I would never expect NDSU Hockey to overtake UND or UM as regional and national powers, but we don't want to be a mankota or UAA or whatever. Is their a middle ground somewhere? I hope this post makes sense just trying to find out what the potential of NDSU Hockey could be given full support from the city and administration. (This also assumes that a new facility will be built next to the FFD someday.)

[johnsowe]

Mankato and UAA are not that bad if they were in a different conference they would have better records. Hockey is not that big in Fargo on the college level maybe Fargo should go after a AHL team. Fargo is as big as Grand Rapids so they could get one and it would be a good rivel with Winnepg.

[redwing77]

I think it would take a very long time for NDSU to ever have a realistic chance of winning a national championship, but I believe that within a reasonable amount of time they could at least challenge for a spot in the NCAA tournament. Look at Bemidji State, for example. They have only been in D1 hockey for about 5 or 6 years I think, and last year they got into the tournament and took Denver to OT in the 1st round. They have built a fairly respectable program within a relatively short period of time. If Bemidji State can do that, surely NDSU should be able to as well. I think their chances of getting into the NCAA hockey tournament, if they had a hockey team, would be much greater than their chances of getting into the NCAA basketball tournament.

Truthfully speaking, BSU and MSU Mankato are not good examples in this case, Dave. Both BSU and Mankato had existing DII/DIII hockey powerhouse programs before going DI. NDSU would be jumping right from club to DI. It's a much more complex situation.

Please don't jump on me for saying this but: Many times I heard that was one of the main ideas behind the downtown Fargo hockey arena that has now failed what... 3 times? I'm not sure Fargo wants to build a place for NDSU to play hockey in the first place.

As for is there room? Yes, I believe there is, but unfortunately it won't be in the WCHA. If NDSU were to go DI in hockey, they'd have little to no problem getting into a conference. CHA is DESPERATE for new teams. In fact, the conference will give $250,000 to the school upon entrance to the conference. Usually it's the other way around.

What does this mean for NDSU/UND hockey rivalry? I don't know. Every NDSU fan I talk to, plus most of those who post here (troll or otherwise) state that NDSU isn't about hockey. It's about basketball and football. Some even call UND hockey a "big fish in a minor sport" or something like that. But if NDSU does go DI, I'm sure that UND would try to fit them in in their non conference schedule. However, for the first few years, I'm not so sure NDSU could hope for anything more than an exhibition game against us simply for strength of schedule reasons.

[The Sicatoka]

Could NDSU find recruits?

Sure, but there's a cart before the horse here.

You'd need a DI hockey program.

The model to look at would be UN-Omaha.

But they had an arena already (the old 8000 seater before this new 14000 seat one).

And they were putting 8000 in for USHL games (the Lancers).

What I see in Fargo is:

- no suitable arena

-- two different arena proposals going down in big "no" votes in the last decade

-- FargoDome showing red in its last budget

- little support for "pay for a ticket" hockey

-- dead Bears

-- dead IceSharks

-- a once-folded NDSU club team

- a very tight athletic budget at NDSU during this transition.

-- mens hockey would mean womens hockey (Title IX) so double expenses

Could? Sure. Anything is "could."

Will? Not in the foreseeable.

I believe the folks at NDSU have other fish to fry first.

[stafford_rules]

agree. NDSU hockey wouuld suck anyways. no recruits would even look at it. i mean, its fargo. no tradition. ya, GF is smaller, but its hockey tradition in amazing. thats how we get our awesome players.

[govikes27]

I'm all for the growth of hockey at any level. Given time the Bison could compete with everyone besides the Sioux and Gophers. The biggest problem (besides the usual suspects like funding, an arena, ect.) is the appearent lack of puckheads in Fargo. I agree that Omaha isn't the best comparison becuase it has long had a visible hockey crowd (look at how their minor league hockey is supported). I think the Bison label could convert some casual sports fans to hockey more than a minor league team ever could. Looks like the people of Fargo aren't willing to give it a shot though .

[dakotadan]

I think NDSU would become a contender in hockey rather quickly. And I think hockey with the NDSU label would bring out bring out alot of fans. Although I see it very difficult for NDSU to get an arena from the city. It would take a group of alumni dedicated to getting the sport started by finding funding for an on campus arena. Hockey could be a money maker for NDSU, but the difficult part is finding the money to get it started.

[NorthDakotaHockey]

I will be forever both stunned and amazed that the powers that be at NDSWho lacked the focus and the courage to start a hockey program back in the mid-to-late 70's. Same with the City of Fargo. Combined, it was one of the greatest collective failures of foresight and vision that any sports community, anywhere, has ever committed. The Bison could be a Division I force in college hockey today. Just like St. Cloud, UNO, Bemidji State, and Mankato State are all perched on the precipe. Of course, the Bison are not so perched, and never will be.

"Football is King in Fargo," so they said. Back then, they may have been right, winning title after title with Ron Ehrhardt, Paul Hatchett, and Chris Simdorn, all during a day and age that is now long past.

So now, the Bison have now gone D-I in every sport that doesn't matter. It was only for the research dollars, not the athletic contests. The Bison failed to go to D-I in the only sport that does matter, at a time when they could have easily done so. The Bison will forever suck the hind-titty of D-I AA sports. It will be generations before NDSU fields a hockey team.

I will always regret that the Sioux-Bison rivalry never had a chance to live in pertetuity . . . . on the ice.

No disrespect intended, this is a hopeless thread. All of us reading this board right now will long be dead before the Bison ever even think about having a chance to compete with the Sioux in D-I college hockey. Tbat is one of the reasons why the Sioux will always respect their Fargo faithful. They could not sell out The Ralph without them.

[Hansel]

Hockey could be a money maker for NDSU, but the difficult part is finding the money to get it started.

Possible but unlikely, very few schools "make" money on any sport. Even a hockey school with solid attendance, Ohio State, loses money on Men's Hockey, and for women's hockey you can essentially double your expenses without any additional revenue. Factor in that NDSU would probably have to lease/rent a city-owned facility and any chance at profit goes out the door. Down the road if hockey makes sense for NDSU I would be for it, but it certainly doesn't now.

On a side note, have their been any rumblings of a Kansas City school (ex UMKC) adding hockey? They are building a beautiful new arena there, which as far as I know does not have any major tenants (no NBA/NHL or major CB teams). A Kansas City school could follow the Omaha model (school in a Large Metro looking to get attention, Arena needing a tenant [even moreso than Omaha which has Creighton hoops] metro lacks major sports team etc etc etc). IMHO that type of situation would be the best for a college Hockey team.

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[Jackson]

I could see NDSU being successful in hockey. The biggest advantage they would have is that they are becoming a DI school, that means they will have an expanding athletics budget and great exposure. But to make it work they are going to need some top notch facilities, if they can get that done they have a lot going for them. They would be the only other DI school to compete for recruits in the area other than Minnesota and to a lesser extent Wisconsin.

[dropTHEgloves]

The NDSU club team got in a brawl this weekend at Minot State. I think the Bison are still laying on the ice, it was brutal.

[coloradosioux]

The NDSU club team got in a brawl this weekend at Minot State. I think the Bison are still laying on the ice, it was brutal.

The city of Fargo will never support a hockey team. Simple as that.

[BigGreyAnt41]

The city of Fargo will never support a hockey team. Simple as that.

This is because the city of Fargo doesn't advertise ANYTHING. I lived in Moorhead for 12 years, and vaguely remember seeing little more than a billboard for F-M Ice Sharks. The city/community doesn't embrase the Bison nearly the same way Grand Forks embraces the Sioux.

I was in awe when I came up here and saw how much support the school gets from the community. You go into Burger King on the north side (near Simplot) and all you see if Sioux stuff. Football helmets, hockey jerseys, it's everything. There is nothing like that in Fargo.

Travel around the country and who do you meet? Sioux fans. It's rare, if it ever happens, that you meet a Bison fan or see an NDSU shirt even. I see more pride coming from Sioux alumni than Bison alumni. I recently went to a concert at the Target Center and wore my Sioux jersey. I had 7 (I counted) people comment positively on the jersey (including somebody yelling 'Go Sioux' out their car window as they drove by). Rarely do I see anything Bison anywhere except Fargo.

I'm not saying this to bash the community or the school, but it's a fact of why hockey never worked in Fargo, there was no advertisment, and why hockey likely wouldn't work at NDSU, because the community and alumni don't support the school they way it's necessary.

[speedy463]

I was at the NDSU MSU game here is the aftermath...all NDSU kids got rolled. There were like 6 fights 5 canadians on the ice for MSU and one guy from ND. and of course all american kids from NDSU, you can guess the outcome.

[iramurphy]

The city of Fargo will never support a hockey team. Simple as that.

The people of Fargo do support a hockey team. The are great supporters of UND hockey. Drive south of Grand Forks after a Sioux home game and you will see for yourself. Don't kid yourselves, they would support D1 hockey. It wouldn't happen overnight and they would need a great facility, but over a period of 10years they could support a D1 hockey team. What wouldn't work is to do it half-assed. If they were to do that it would hurt their WBB and MBB. I don't think it would be a great move for their school but if they did it and did it right I think they could.

Who would have thought they could support D2 and now D1AA football? They have done a decent job of that in the last 40 years.

Lastly, I am anything but a fan of the AC but you need to be realistic.

[The Sicatoka]

If they were to do that it would hurt their WBB and MBB. I don't think it would be a great move for their school ....

You hit a key point: Right now the prime issue has to be building and expanding the M/W BB base to have the revenue to even begin to think about expanding to other sports.

I think it would have a much better chance of being approved if NDSU had an existing team.

Another case of cart before the horse is right there.

Honestly, a "starter" NDSU DI team could play in Moorhead. It'd be embarrassing if the Spuds outdrew them for some games, but prove you're serious about hockey by investing in a team, then come for an arena. (Coming for the arena first seems to smell like wanting a basketball, not hockey, arena to many Fargo voters according to the last two votes.)

[brianvf]

They certainly pack the fans in for those club games.

[CVCL]

They certainly pack the fans in for those club games.

Well there's no way that's the coliseum or any other rink in FM so I'm not sure what you mean.

[SiouxMD]

Well there's no way that's the coliseum or any other rink in FM so I'm not sure what you mean.

All-Seasons Arena in Minot, ND.

Regarding fans...who wants to pay $6 per ticket to watch NDSU get "rolled" in hockey?

Just knowing it happened is enough for me...

[burd]

There's a whole host of reasons why NDSU will never field a D1 hockey team, but the most compelling one is the simple fact that it is dang near impossible to get a dead buffalo up over the glass.

[dagies]

There's a whole host of reasons why NDSU will never field a D1 hockey team, but the most compelling one is the simple fact that it is dang near impossible to get a dead buffalo up over the glass.

TFF!

[Blackheart]

NDSU D1 HOckey = MN Vikings Super Bowl Champions

Sorry, not gonna happen..

[iramurphy]

There's a whole host of reasons why NDSU will never field a D1 hockey team, but the most compelling one is the simple fact that it is dang near impossible to get a dead buffalo up over the glass.

Great answer. It might be even tougher hiding it under your coat to get it past security. If you get it in, there might be a way.

You might try putting the back feet on Chapman's (the AC pres) left ear and the front feet on Chapman's right ear, then grabbing Chappie by the seat of his pants and hoisting him up to the glass. When his ears are level with the top of the glass, knock the dead buffalo over the glass. The toughest part of all of this is to get Chappie there in the first place, and after you knock the buffalo onto the ice, you have to drop Chappie and run, so you don't get kicked out. If you drop him from too high, the aerodynamics of those ears may float him into someone else's seat and a ruckuss could ensue. Even if that works, you won't get the dead buffalo anywhere near their goalie.

[HockeyMom]

HockeyMom could get a live buffalo over the glass.

Where there is a will, there is a way!

[ArchyAlum11]

On 2/14/2006 at 11:40 AM, DaveK said:

I think it would take a very long time for NDSU to ever have a realistic chance of winning a national championship, but I believe that within a reasonable amount of time they could at least challenge for a spot in the NCAA tournament. Look at Bemidji State, for example. They have only been in D1 hockey for about 5 or 6 years I think, and last year they got into the tournament and took Denver to OT in the 1st round. They have built a fairly respectable program within a relatively short period of time. If Bemidji State can do that, surely NDSU should be able to as well. I think their chances of getting into the NCAA hockey tournament, if they had a hockey team, would be much greater than their chances of getting into the NCAA basketball tournament.

I don't think it would take a long time, the right coach and the right facility and they can get enough talented players to have a competitive team.  The issue is money,  Hockey is really expensive to start, NDSU would need a gift similar to penn state, otherwise the Fargo Moorhead area has more than enough people willing to buy hockey tickets. But they need to do it before Moorhead state try's again.