Providence @ UND

[stoneySIOUX]

18 minutes ago, .357 said:

It goes beyond this season & extends into the last month of the last season. Technically, the poor performances & lapses go back for a good chunk of the previous 8 years; it's not exactly a new development. 

 

Gasparini had some stinkers for games, but for his first 8 years compared to Berry's, he almost always had his teams clicking in the playoffs. As does Carle in the modern era, who may be a world apart from Gasparini in terms of changed attitudes, but his teams still "bring it" every March/April. Therein lies the difference.

So comparisons are not good? To not compare a previous era to the current one leaves no standard by which to judge your program. Especially when a certain window within that previous era ('79 - '87) was the shining star of the program's history. Comparisons are natural in sports & life, that's how we gain perspective, establish a baseline & improve. It also serves as a model to today's players on how they're expected to perform. Like you mentioned previously, nothing happens in a void.

Looking forward to this team playing like they're capable of & going deep in the playoffs this year. Berry certainly deserves #9 based on his endless hours of work & his obvious passion for the program; whether he actually achieves it is another hand-wringing, nail-biting matter.

I'll have to agree to disagree that it's a big pattern than Bubs' teams don't start fast. I did acknowledge that I think we've, at times in recent history, have had let downs. Last year and not finishing down the stretch felt different than any other situation. 

No, I absolutely do not think a comparison to now and how and what Gino did 40 years ago is a good comparison. It's a completely different game, with completely different depth of teams, style of play, and construction. 

Carle's teams have won. Can anyone quantify why? Give me an actual reason why they won a title last year and we lost in the first round. Tangible, actual things. No one can. It's magic fairy dust that Carle possesses. 

[.357]

1 minute ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Carle's teams have won. Can anyone quantify it? Give me an actual reason why they won a title last year and we lost in the first round. Tangible, actual things. No one can. It's magic fairy dust that Carle possesses. 

You saying that all coaches are the same & some aren't inherently more talented than others? 

Tangible things..hmmm, how about his team scoring more goals than the opposition? That's an actual, quantifiable reason why his team went all the way last year. I think you meant what intangibles does Carle possess..who knows what he tells his players behind closed doors or how he prepares them, all I know is that he gets it done.

[burd]

20 hours ago, iramurphy said:

That was Murray Armstrong. He was our first choice, supposedly his wife vetoed the move. 

Yeah, I can't imagine Harkness would seriously consider UND once he got the Cornell roll started (Dryden).   No one has matched his amazing run there, much less won multiple Natties in two separate sports, one of which UND does not have.   

[AJS]

I'm making a lot of assumptions based on one game, but the way Berry constructed the lines was different than he has in the past. There's a lot of reason for optimism. The keys for me.

• Boisvert as a Top 6 C (which then would move Wilkie to 3C). They are going with a high-end / high-ceiling FR over 5th year transfer. 
• Schmaltz / Jamernik on the 4th line

The way these lines are constructed are what I've been asking. What line-up / lines will give this team the highest ceiling at the end of the year. Both F / D lines accomplish that. That has not been the case in recent years. 

[stoneySIOUX]

12 minutes ago, .357 said:

You saying that all coaches are the same & some aren't inherently more talented than others? 

Tangible things..hmmm, how about his team scoring more goals than the opposition? That's an actual, quantifiable reason why his team went all the way last year. I think you meant what intangibles does Carle possess..who knows what he tells his players behind closed doors or how he prepares them, all I know is that he gets it done.

I'm saying Carle and Bubs are equally as talented. You can disagree, that's fine. I have no problem with that. Scoring more goals lol, ok. No... I mean tangible. What did Carle do differently to make his team score those goals?

My overall point is that I absolutely do not think Carle is doing anything different than Bubs down the stretch over the past few years. The bolded part is my point. The overall supposition of the argument is that Carle is a better coach because his team has gotten the bounces to win in a one-and-done.... I think that's nonsense.

Sorry, I got us off on a tangent. 

[Sweethockey]

Right now, we should focus on the here and now. The team took a step in the right direction considering how they played against Auggie. Let's be thankful for that and hope they take another positive step this coming weekend. 

Can't compare Gino to Brad, it is a completely different set of circumstances from then to now.

Carle didn't have the best players last spring, a few were elite. His team played like a team should, they played for each other..... and of course there's a bit of luck involved.

My $0.02

[tnt]

15 minutes ago, AJS said:

I'm making a lot of assumptions based on one game, but the way Berry constructed the lines was different than he has in the past. There's a lot of reason for optimism. The keys for me.

• Boisvert as a Top 6 C (which then would move Wilkie to 3C). They are going with a high-end / high-ceiling FR over 5th year transfer. 
• Schmaltz / Jamernik on the 4th line

The way these lines are constructed are what I've been asking. What line-up / lines will give this team the highest ceiling at the end of the year. Both F / D lines accomplish that. That has not been the case in recent years. 

Still baffles me how Schmaltz keeps finding his way on to the 2nd power play unit though.   Let him focus on the penalty kill and get another young gun out there to start growing into that role.  

[Brett0909]

38 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

I'm saying Carle and Bubs are equally as talented. You can disagree, that's fine. I have no problem with that. Scoring more goals lol, ok. No... I mean tangible. What did Carle do differently to make his team score those goals?

My overall point is that I absolutely do not think Carle is doing anything different than Bubs down the stretch over the past few years. The bolded part is my point. The overall supposition of the argument is that Carle is a better coach because his team has gotten the bounces to win in a one-and-done.... I think that's nonsense.

Sorry, I got us off on a tangent. 

Genuinely appreciate all your efforts to temper the ledgies who are prone to over-reacting on here…but are you really planting a flag that Carle is not a better coach than Berry, he’s just been luckier (year after year)? Maybe I’m misunderstanding…

I think we can all agree luck is involved and you likely can’t win it all without a bounce or two…and Carle got more than his share last year. But we have a decade worth of evidence that something isn’t working for Berry when it matters most, and I SERIOUSLY hope he isn’t sitting around complaining that it’s just been year after year of bad luck. Even he seemed to acknowledges the need for changes to get a different result. What great coaches (vs. good) do, in the thousands of choices they make, we’ll never fully understand. But some elite coaches are consistently getting the results while some aren’t.
 

Ultimately, Berry knows he’s judged by the final game of the year..I think it’s fair for posters here to also acknowledge that. 

[fightingsioux4life]

55 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

I'm saying Carle and Bubs are equally as talented. You can disagree, that's fine. I have no problem with that. Scoring more goals lol, ok. No... I mean tangible. What did Carle do differently to make his team score those goals?

My overall point is that I absolutely do not think Carle is doing anything different than Bubs down the stretch over the past few years. The bolded part is my point. The overall supposition of the argument is that Carle is a better coach because his team has gotten the bounces to win in a one-and-done.... I think that's nonsense.

Sorry, I got us off on a tangent. 

Here we go with the "one and done" bull$hit again. That's just an all-purpose excuse to repeatedly fail in the playoffs and have it explained away.

Do you really think that Denver's 3 titles since we hung #8 are mainly the result of "luck"? It's a clear pattern of success we have not had in a long time. That doesn't happen by accident and it sure as heck didn't happen because of "magic fairy dust". Ralph Engelstad didn't believe in "luck" and neither should we.

And FWIW, our GWG vs. Denver in the NCAA semifinals in 2016 was the result of winning a key faceoff, not "luck". I like how this team is built, but we'll have to wait and see how the team grows and develops over the coming months.

[stoneySIOUX]

7 minutes ago, Brett0909 said:

Genuinely appreciate all your efforts to temper the ledgies who are prone to over-reacting on here…but are you really planting a flag that Carle is not a better coach than Berry, he’s just been luckier (year after year)? Maybe I’m misunderstanding…

I think we can all agree luck is involved and you likely can’t win it all without a bounce or two…and Carle got more than his share last year. But we have a decade worth of evidence that something isn’t working for Berry when it matters most, and I SERIOUSLY hope he isn’t sitting around complaining that it’s just been year after year of bad luck. Even he seemed to acknowledges the need for changes to get a different result. What great coaches (vs. good) do, in the thousands of choices they make, we’ll never fully understand. But some elite coaches are consistently getting the results while some aren’t.
 

Ultimately, Berry knows he’s judged by the final game of the year..I think it’s fair for posters here to also acknowledge that. 

I think he's been a more successful coach. Is that fair? I do not think he's a better coach. Bubs has made many changes over the years, too.

The "something" is my issue... no one has ever been able to tell me why Carle is better than Bubs. It's not luck.... it's just hockey. His teams have gotten it done and that's why he's been more successful. 

[Irish]

58 minutes ago, Sweethockey said:

Right now, we should focus on the here and now. The team took a step in the right direction considering how they played against Auggie. Let's be thankful for that and hope they take another positive step this coming weekend. 

Can't compare Gino to Brad, it is a completely different set of circumstances from then to now.

Carle didn't have the best players last spring, a few were elite. His team played like a team should, they played for each other..... and of course there's a bit of luck involved.

My $0.02

Carle's team didn't take the first 10 minutes of the 3rd off in a regional game they were winning so there's that.

[stoneySIOUX]

13 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Here we go with the "one and done" bull$hit again. That's just an all-purpose excuse to repeatedly fail in the playoffs and have it explained away.

Do you really think that Denver's 3 titles since we hung #8 are mainly the result of "luck"? It's a clear pattern of success we have not had in a long time. That doesn't happen by accident and it sure as heck didn't happen because of "magic fairy dust". Ralph Engelstad didn't believe in "luck" and neither should we.

And FWIW, our GWG vs. Denver in the NCAA semifinals in 2016 was the result of winning a key faceoff, not "luck". I like how this team is built, but we'll have to wait and see how the team grows and develops over the coming months.

It's not BS. It's hockey.

No, it's not luck. It's just hockey. What can Bubs do better to win these games? 

And it's simple.... what did Carle do in those games that Bubs didn't? What did he do to affect the game?

FWIW, we did win the draw, but we did get a good bounce off the defenders pad right into the slot where Schmaltzy buried it. That's hockey. Get to the right place. I bet Bubs and crew told Schmaltz he needed to be in the slot at that point. 

 

[stoneySIOUX]

Again, sorry for the tangent. I don't mind disagreeing with people about this. Maybe we just get back to UND @ Prov lol

[stoneySIOUX]

10 minutes ago, Irish said:

Carle's team didn't take the first 10 minutes of the 3rd off in a regional game they were winning so there's that.

Can you tell me why?

[Irish]

2 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Can you tell me why?

No one can be certain but I'm of the opinion that when we lost Eades we lost the guy that could be intense and fire up a team - and effectively call them on it when they were standing around.  Not so sure we have that now.  

[SiouxFan100]

Hockey is an unfair at the game level because the low scores and a fair amount of luck involved in each game. 
hockey is more fair at the season level

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

If anyone can find out what Carle said to Matt Davis to upgrade him from 'Kangas at The Ralph' to 'Dominek Hasek in his prime' once the NCAAs hit, I'll pay you good money...

[stoneySIOUX]

30 minutes ago, Irish said:

No one can be certain but I'm of the opinion that when we lost Eades we lost the guy that could be intense and fire up a team - and effectively call them on it when they were standing around.  Not so sure we have that now.  

Ok, well until someone can tell me specifically why Carle is better, that's my overall point. I don't think Bubs lacks anything. I disagree that he doesn't fire up the team. The team has been wholly fired up and won many big games. Unfortunately, some of those games didn't happen in the NCAA tourney.

[burd]

31 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Ok, well until someone can tell me specifically why Carle is better, that's my overall point. I don't think Bubs lacks anything. I disagree that he doesn't fire up the team. The team has been wholly fired up and won many big games. Unfortunately, some of those games didn't happen in the NCAA tourney.

It would be nice to hear specific, rather than vague, often cliche' (like not playing a full 60) reasons as to why Berry or Hak before him isn't coaching like he should.  For instance, I don't think I've ever heard criticism that (whoever is coaching) is often outcoached on line matchups, citing specific and not isolated examples.   I'm guessing some coaches out there are just very good at that, especially keeping up with favorable matchups on the fly, not simply after a whistle.   It's no doubt an inexact science, but I'm quite sure it's important and requires a lot of film preparation and some serious understanding of what players can and should not be expected to do.    I don't have enough hockey knowledge to drive that kind of discussion, but it would be informative, rather than simple outcome criticism that plays more like fan poutage than it does criticism.  

[.357]

49 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Ok, well until someone can tell me specifically why Carle is better, that's my overall point. I don't think Bubs lacks anything. I disagree that he doesn't fire up the team. The team has been wholly fired up and won many big games. Unfortunately, some of those games didn't happen in the NCAA tourney.

That's an unanswerable question for somebody who's not intimately involved with his program. How in the world is someone on ss.com supposed to know the 'why' to his success? Maybe it's how he motivates his players, maybe it's his overall charisma that players resonate with, maybe it's how he gets every player to buy in, maybe it's his problem-solving skills, maybe it's putting his players in lineups & situations where he knows they'll succeed, maybe he's more firm with players who aren't giving 100%, maybe he recruits better, maybe he says the right things at the right time, maybe he's a brilliant strategist..who the F knows, he's better because he gets the job done. 

[burd]

12 minutes ago, .357 said:

That's an unanswerable question for somebody who's not intimately involved with his program. How in the world is someone on ss.com supposed to know the 'why' to his success? Maybe it's how he motivates his players, maybe it's his overall charisma that players resonate with, maybe it's how he gets every player to buy in, maybe it's his problem-solving skills, maybe it's putting his players in lineups & situations where he knows they'll succeed, maybe he's more firm with players who aren't giving 100%, maybe he recruits better, maybe he says the right things at the right time, maybe he's a brilliant strategist..who the F knows, he's better because he gets the job done. 

   Does that (bolded) statement mean the same as "He gets the job done because he is better?"   

[dustnyou]

C’mon guys, y’all are trying to compare two of the best five college hockey coaches in the county. Bubs has coached at the highest level in the NHL and Carle will be there soon. Tons of respect for Carle and so thankful UND has Brad Berry. We’ve been blessed with top notch coaches for a long time. 

[brianvf]

Sorry to interrupt the coaching argument. 
Love the alternate angles on some of these goals...the Ralph sure kicks out some high quality replays.
The slo-mo on Boisvert's goal is beautiful...you can just see the velocity and how nicely he picked that top corner.
Emery already seems like he bleeds green, just super pumped with every goal & celebration (reminds me of how Parise used to celebrate goals with his enthusiasm).

 

[stoneySIOUX]

2 minutes ago, brianvf said:

Sorry to interrupt the coaching argument. 
Love the alternate angles on some of these goals...the Ralph sure kicks out some high quality replays.
The slo-mo on Boisvert's goal is beautiful...you can just see the velocity and how nicely he picked that top corner.
Emery already seems like he bleeds green, just super pumped with every goal & celebration (reminds me of how Parise used to celebrate goals with his enthusiasm).

 

I'm sorry lol. I tried to bring it back!

As a Rangers fan, I was so happy we was drafted by my team. After just one game, I'm now over the moon.

[gfhockey]

carle doesn’t even have the facilities we do and nails 3 nattys more then any und coach has

 

whlnever saying carle is a equal coach to berry I want some of that what your smoking

could be the blasfamus statement of the year candidate