UND @ SDSU (Beat the bunnies)

[nodak651]

1 hour ago, SiouxFan100 said:

Shoulda avoided the sack 

How? 

[SIOUXFAN97]

anyone have a better angle of the int?

 

[UND1983]

10 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

The same staff that choked against NDSU and failed to call TO when they didn’t take our bait on the punt, was calmly telling Tommy to take his time after the sack?  Really?

No your right, they were screaming at him to hurry up and get to the line... while he was standing there looking directly at them for the play as the team huddled. 

WTF dude?  You are out in another world with your hate of this staff.  You can bitch about alot of things but that ain't of them.

[SiouxFan100]

9 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

How? 

Lineman should blocked better

maybe threw the ball away

maybe had a different play called

check off receiver 

maybe scrambled better

different blocking scheme

watched film to anticipate 

idk but it hurt

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 hours ago, iramurphy said:

That’s why we didn’t recruit Thielen. Could have had him for a dime. Most patterns including TDs of over 40 yds are not to wide open burner behind the secondary. What is needed? 4.5?  Do you know how close the 4.6 or even 4.7 kid is to the 4.5 kid in the first 40 yds. Our receivers have been able to find the seems candid get open. I’d prefer a 4.3 guy but if they can’t read a defense, find the seems in a zone, block and catch I will take the kids we have. Belquist has great quickness and I would bet can run a 4.6 if not better. The oline is a key piece that can easily compensate for that missing 4.4 forty guy. 

Absolutely, exactly my point (tough to portray sarcasm on here). Speed is only one small part of being a good receiver. Need guys who can run good routes, catch the ball in traffic, and just have a knack for making clutch catches. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 hours ago, iramurphy said:

Any good coach will want at least 5 yrs. that’s how long it takes for you to have a team of your own recruits. By then you should have the program on the right track. Programs that are down will take longer than 2 years. 

Sure, they will want that, but over the past decade of college football, in both FBS and FCS, several new coaching staffs have changed the culture and started winning after just a couple seasons. 

[SiouxFan100]

Gotta agree with G

that’s all fine and needed about what a receiver should do but without at least one that can just outrace and be a threat over the top we are limited 

[Midwestern Hawk]

4 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

No your right, they were screaming at him to hurry up and get to the line... while he was standing there looking directly at them for the play as the team huddled. 

WTF dude?  You are out in another world with your hate of this staff.  You can bitch about alot of things but that ain't of them.

I see players looking a bit confused after the sack, not all by some.  We used 39 seconds on a first down sack and when we finally got down to running the next play, the receiver did not appear to be on the same page as his QB.  
 

the NDSU, MSU and SDSU losses are all directly blamed on our game management/time management.  For the record, I love Bubba and the staff, but if they take an objective look back at the season they blew some games.

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 hours ago, geaux_sioux said:

Would Belquist have more opportunities to make plays if he were paired up with a Greg Hardin type?

If Greg Hardin “type” was on UND roster, they would be “the guy”.

Greg Hardin was a borderline NFL talent (was on Broncos for a brief period). UND should take any player that has that kind of potential; tough to get at FCS level but it happens. Point is, UND always should be looking for good players and Hardin was a top tier FCS talent while at UND. Right now, UND has a couple of those guys in Waletzko (will leave) and Otis Weah. Also some young guys that could develop yet into that. 

 

As for receivers specifically, UND has not had a receiver of that caliber since Hardin and Golladay. Toivonen and Wanzek were close.

[iramurphy]

5 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Sure, they will want that, but over the past decade of college football, in both FBS and FCS, several new coaching staffs have changed the culture and started winning after just a couple seasons. 

True. Depends on how deep the hole is they have to climb out of. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

13 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Sure, they will want that, but over the past decade of college football, in both FBS and FCS, several new coaching staffs have changed the culture and started winning after just a couple seasons. 

I’ve said it before and it’s a very extreme example, but if nick Saban and his staff coached this team from Jan 1 of 2020 it would be at a minimum 10-1 at the moment, MVFC champs and a top seed In  the tournament . Again an extreme example with maybe the best college HC who has ever coached, but in football coaching is incredibly important.  
Look at MSU.  Perennial doormat, Petrino shows up and boom!  Playoffs every season.

[nodak651]

2 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

anyone have a better angle of the int?

 

[iramurphy]

1 hour ago, SiouxFan100 said:

Shoulda avoided the sack 

I just saw replay. Didn’t he have a clear lane to run to his left?

[SiouxBoys]

1 hour ago, iramurphy said:

Not sure. I’m also not sure what is meant by a “burner”.  What kind of speed are you looking for?  

The kind of speed that forces a defense to keep a safety over the top. Clive was the last one we had. Need another one.

[nodak651]

2 hours ago, iramurphy said:

I just saw replay. Didn’t he have a clear lane to run to his left?

He got sacked by the guy to his left

[nodak651]

On 11/20/2021 at 3:44 PM, Midwestern Hawk said:

We had the ball 1st and 10 at the 23 yard line with 90 seconds left.  Tommy forced a bad throw on second and 18 after the sack with 51 seconds to go.  

3 hours ago, Sioux94 said:

I just watched the play about 10 times. As another poster mentioned, and I hadn't caught it at the time, when Richter breaks to the inside....he slows up just a bit.  Would you say if he keeps running the route the way Tommy expects him...meaning continuing full speed to the inside......that the ball hits him in the hands?  

3 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Totally agree, but I agree with Sioux 94, richter makes the cut and slows down like either he doesn’t expect the ball or there is miscommunication on the route between he and Tommy.  It’s near the end.  Not ESPN view.
https://youtu.be/ucjPYFzcTA8

@Midwestern Hawkare you able to find it within yourself to admit that you were wrong about Tommy for once, in that he didn't force the throw and it wasn't a bad throw?

[Midwestern Hawk]

6 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

@Midwestern Hawkare you able to find it within yourself to admit that you were wrong about Tommy for once, in that he didn't force the throw and it wasn't a bad throw?

Looks like richter was not expecting the ball, which makes no sense.  Not a bad throw,  just a really bad play.  Are you happy now?    

[nodak651]

2 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Looks like richter was not expecting the ball, which makes no sense.  Not a bad throw,  just a really bad play.  Are you happy now?    

Yes.

[Midwestern Hawk]

9 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Sure, they will want that, but over the past decade of college football, in both FBS and FCS, several new coaching staffs have changed the culture and started winning after just a couple seasons. 

Its not all coaching, but in football coaching is by far the most important element.  A very recent MVFC example:

2015	Missouri State	1–10	0–8	10th
2016	Missouri State	4–7	2–6	T–8th
2017	Missouri State	3–8	2–6	T–8th
2018	Missouri State	4–7	2–6	9th
2019	Missouri State	1–10	1–7	T–9th
2020/Spring 2021	Missouri State	5–4	5–1	T–1st

 

2021: 8-3 and 6-2

Now ask yourself what changed after the 2019 season?

[The Sicatoka]

We're all guilty of seeing what we want to see; some call it "two movies on one screen". 

Is there a consulting group out there that could objectively review a team after a season and give their report card about how well the team did "administrative" game day things; for example, time out management, clock management, play calling (as in getting in quickly, not specific calls), personnel substitutions, etc. 

 

[The Sicatoka]

The completion is made. Otis runs it in with 0:09 on the clock. UND wins.

UND still stays home on Selection Sunday because UNI defeated SDSU, and SIU, and Sac State. Convince me otherwise. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

25 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

The completion is made. Otis runs it in with 0:09 on the clock. UND wins.

UND still stays home on Selection Sunday because UNI defeated SDSU, and SIU, and Sac State. Convince me otherwise. 

You are likely correct about the committee.  Feels like UND snatched "disappointment" this season with one of its best, deepest teams ever. Will take me quite awhile to get over the "no timeout" vs NDSU.  That play changed the trajectory of the team and program we all love.

[nodak651]

55 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Its not all coaching, but in football coaching is by far the most important element.  A very recent MVFC example:

2015	Missouri State	1–10	0–8	10th
2016	Missouri State	4–7	2–6	T–8th
2017	Missouri State	3–8	2–6	T–8th
2018	Missouri State	4–7	2–6	9th
2019	Missouri State	1–10	1–7	T–9th
2020/Spring 2021	Missouri State	5–4	5–1	T–1st

 

2021: 8-3 and 6-2

Now ask yourself what changed after the 2019 season?

But he choked when it counts in the playoffs vs a terrible coaching staff Please disregard that comment - I know that wasn't really the point.  Utah State this year would be another good example of what you're getting at I suppose.

Sorry in advance for rambling.

Big name coach.  However, given that he brought in, from what I remember, 20-30 transfers, is there any reason to believe that success will be sustained once he leaves after the 3-4 years that has been discussed?  I think putting pressure on a coach to have immediate success can have a negative impact on the culture of the program, as fewer players are "bought in" four/five year players.  With too many transfers, how likely are most of the guys likely to stick around once the coach moves on vs guys recruited as high schoolers who (imo) have more loyalty to the program?  

If you hire a coach and have extremely high expectations for immediate improvement, or if the coach plans to use UND as a stepping stone,, is there a chance that forces the coach to make short term recruiting decisions to the detriment of the long term stability of the program?

For example perhaps he takes in upperclassmen transfers rather than freshman so he can have better roster depth in the short term, as he doesn't really care about what happens with the roster after a huge class graduates because he aims to be hired away to another school anyway, thereby leaving the cupboard bare for the next coach.  There are many examples of coaches turning teams around after one season, but what is the difference between flash in the pan teams and teams who get turned around and then have long term success after the coach leaves right away?  What are the odds of sustained success say Missouri State's coach moves on?  Probably higher than if he didn't coach there at all, but then again UND is nowhere near as low as that program has been.

Long story short, I don't want UND to become a Jacksonville State type program.  If you're aware of that program you'll know what I'm getting at.

[Midwestern Hawk]

11 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

 

Sorry in advance for rambling.

Big name coach.  However, given that he brought in, from what I remember, 20-30 transfers, is there any reason to believe that success will be sustained once he leaves after the 3-4 years that has been discussed?  I think putting pressure on a coach to have immediate success can have a negative impact on the culture of the program, as fewer players are "bought in" four/five year players.  With too many transfers, how likely are most of the guys likely to stick around once the coach moves on vs guys recruited as high schoolers who (imo) have more loyalty to the program?  

If you hire a coach and have extremely high expectations for immediate improvement, or if the coach plans to use UND as a stepping stone,, is there a chance that forces the coach to make short term recruiting decisions to the detriment of the long term stability of the program?

For example perhaps he takes in upperclassmen transfers rather than freshman so he can have better roster depth in the short term, as he doesn't really care about what happens with the roster after a huge class graduates because he aims to be hired away to another school anyway, thereby leaving the cupboard bare for the next coach.  There are many examples of coaches turning teams around after one season, but what is the difference between flash in the pan teams and teams who get turned around and then have long term success after the coach leaves right away?  What are the odds of sustained success say Missouri State's coach moves on?  Probably higher than if he didn't coach there at all, but then again UND is nowhere near as low as that program has been.

Long story short, I don't want UND to become a Jacksonville State type program.  If you're aware of that program you'll know what I'm getting at.

I'm not a proponent of wholesale personnel changes and would rather build from the ground up.  My larger point was how important coaching is in football.  UND beat itself when playing Petrino team @MSU this fall.  Pretty difficult to agrue with Petrino record over time.  If Petrino was coaching this team we would be posting on the first round playoff thread instead of "could haves" and "should haves".  Pretty hard to argue that.

I'm tired of waiting for Bubba and co to get "over the hump".  After this fall, the success of the spring is looking more and more like a fluke and/or a mirage.

 

[sioux24/7]

I am a Tommy backer and always will be but I still hope the coaches don’t just hand him the job next fall. Let him battle it out with Trey. Iron sharpens iron.