What’s wrong with youth hockey

[yzerman19]

6 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

In the last two days, all you posters here went Nuclear, back to the hockey mom.

Used to make fun of minivans, until one day woke up as a hockey mom.
Feels antsy if not outside each day.

Starts crock pot at home before leaves for the ice.
Karen haircut, baseball cap, make up & accessories look effortless, always on point.
Drives a sweet ass minivan or suburban.
Water! Multiple cases in vehicle.
Snacks! gluten free protein bars, organic orange slices, etc.
Barrels into the parking lot - finishing with brakes, a little slide, & a huge smile.
Can juggle multiple children and equipment with ease.
Oversized sun glasses; implies - sexy, mysterious and better than you.
Personalized coffee cup.
Game time: grunting, screaming, jumping, lip biting, deep heavy breathing.....
Bubbling rage toward referees - owns it.
Arriving home, crock pot ready; throws back a cocktail instead of throwing dinner together.
Always looks like a multitasking genius.

I like it when my kid’s hockey mom is engaging in the “game time” antics you describe...especially when in our room 

[yzerman19]

On 2/18/2021 at 8:02 AM, sioux rube said:

I did for a period. You have a problem with that? 

I wouldn’t do it unless it was egregious.  You can do whatever you want.  I have an inordinate amount of power in my professional life, so I yield power very delicately.

[yzerman19]

On 2/18/2021 at 7:36 AM, Yote 53 said:

My oldest is 18 and off playing hockey now so I have been through this once already.  I'm now starting over coaching my youngest, 4 years old, in his first year of Mini Mites.  I can say I have a totally different perspective on things having gone through it once, taken a couple years off coaching, and then getting back into it starting over from the beginning.  The first thing I noticed is while the people I coach with mean well, they are younger and just going through this the first time.  You can sense the anxiety when their kids aren't engaged and dominating play.  "Get in there! Go after the puck!"  Then there's my kid just skating around all over, sometimes playing the puck, sometimes ignoring it.  He's winded by the end of his shift, for sure.  Asked him what he's doing out there and he says he likes skating around.  Good, he's one of the best skaters we got out there.  I don't give a crap if he's out there battling for pucks, he's 4, he's just having fun, and that is the point of this that a few of the dad coaches don't get.  It's supposed to be fun otherwise they won't develop a love of the game and want to come back.  Relax and enjoy the ride.

Hockey players are the same as any other athletes.  They're mostly good kids just trying to grow up and figure things out.  We focus on the negative way too much and it turns people off on the sport.  Focus on the good things the game brings out because there are a lot of them.  We're supposed to be ambassadors for the game.

That balancing act kept me up many nights when I was coaching my son in Mites.  I was terrified of hurting his love for the game.  Life became much easier when I released him to the game and professional coaches.  Now I just play with him in garage or on occasion on the ice for fun.

The thing is the game is a lot more fun when you are good at it, so you gotta develop and you gotta learn while still keeping it fun.  That’s the balance.  It’s also important to have perspective- just because you want Junior to play at a high level doesn’t mean they want to or are physically capable. I see it with some teammates of my son- we play AAA hockey and the funnel just keeps getting  narrower.  Some kids love hockey and work hard at it, but just don’t have the tools to stay at the top, and that is perfectly okay, but the parents are obsessed and worried.

[Yote 53]

Blast from the past.  I just came across something that was on my phone.  The results from USAH Regional Camp in Grand Forks a few years ago from select 15's.  Tyler Kleven was one of the two D selected.  Lol, my kid never had a chance of going to Natty Camp.

That is the other thing you learn after you've gone through it once.  As good as you think your kid is there is always another kid out there who is better and a thousand other kids who are working hard to be better than your kid.

[sioux rube]

1 hour ago, yzerman19 said:

I wouldn’t do it unless it was egregious.  You can do whatever you want.  I have an inordinate amount of power in my professional life, so I yield power very delicately.

We went over everything that was expected from the team and what wasn’t tolerated. He broke one of the rules 

[dlsiouxfan]

On 2/19/2021 at 12:09 PM, Clark17 said:

USA Hockey does a pretty good job governing youth hockey except for the accountability portion concerning grades, conduct outside of the rink etc...  Sure organizations can impose rules concerning this matter but it's not as simple as one might think due to USA Hockey's bylaw #10.  In short to suspend a player for example grades or conduct, they must be offered a hearing first with parent/guardian, player, and designated club staff.  I see clubs that have grade policies in place but am not certain if they are following this rule.  I'm also not certain how often schools of NDHSAA sanctioned teams/participants check grades, weekly?  I think this would be quite difficult to do under USA Hockey on a weekly basis.  If a player's conduct and/or actions are deemed an immediate threat or of an extremely egregious nature they can be summarily suspended.   USA Hockey advises to only use this route in extreme circumstances.  

I do agree, there is more accountability in athletics sanctioned by schools, however let's take a look at a typical youth basketball season in ND.  It's relatively short compared to a youth hockey season.  Upon conclusion of the basketball season teams pop up all over the state.  Some even have tryouts.  I'm sure they  have coaches with zero coaching education, no sanctioning body, no safe-sport that I'm aware of, and so on.  It's basically a free-for-all !@#$ show, kind of like summer AAA hockey, except at least that's confined to a shorter amount of time due to a typical USA Hockey sanctioned youth hockey season. 

So I have to ask myself this question, if youth hockey was sanctioned through schools would the seasons be shorter allowing even more time for unsanctioned hockey?  I think that is exactly what would happen.    

 

         

I have to disagree, the year round play is probably my biggest beef with the club teams.   Specializing in one sport at the middle school and high school level is extremely detrimental to the athlete and has little to no benefits for their development in the sport their specializing.   We don't need these kids playing 100 basketball and hockey games a year.   They should be competing in different sports during the offseason and developing different muscle groups.  If they don't have a fall, spring, or winter sport then they should be in the weight room getting their bodies stronger. Study after study has shown this but collectively youth and high school basketball and hockey coaches have decided to just disregard that information.  I have to admit I do not have any experience regarding youth hockey but it's frustrating watching kids who play 100 basketball games a year that are unable to make or even create a mid-range jumpshot for themselves.   

[Frozen4sioux]

Volunteered at one of the lower level state PW tournaments this past weekend.

Watched one team whose coaches yelled at, berated, screamed, and just where generally assholes to the kids, literally berating them to tears. In fact most of the game more than one kids was crying due to the constant berating.

Cant be good for retention.

 

Watched another coach feom a smaller town team support and take time to coach a kid who made a poor decision with the puck.

Was a very interesting dynamic of one program vs another.

Feel bad for those kids in tears, they could not have been having fun playing hockey.

 

[Wilbur]

2 hours ago, Frozen4sioux said:

Volunteered at one of the lower level state PW tournaments this past weekend.

Watched one team whose coaches yelled at, berated, screamed, and just where generally assholes to the kids, literally berating them to tears. In fact most of the game more than one kids was crying due to the constant berating.

Cant be good for retention.

 

Watched another coach feom a smaller town team support and take time to coach a kid who made a poor decision with the puck.

Was a very interesting dynamic of one program vs another.

Feel bad for those kids in tears, they could not have been having fun playing hockey.

 

My Pee Wee A coach (26 years ago) had me scared for my life.  The guy invented the Hak stare before we all knew the Hak stare.  Played most of my games scared to death I would screw up and the whole arena would know my name from him yelling it.  He knew the game, but easily the worst year of hockey I ever had.  We had a great year too.  Finished 3rd in the state, beat Grand Forks South which at that time was the future Red River kids.  

Probably the most successful hockey team I ever played on and I spent the whole year hating it.

[Clark17]

3 hours ago, Frozen4sioux said:

Volunteered at one of the lower level state PW tournaments this past weekend.

Watched one team whose coaches yelled at, berated, screamed, and just where generally assholes to the kids, literally berating them to tears. In fact most of the game more than one kids was crying due to the constant berating.

Cant be good for retention.

 

Watched another coach feom a smaller town team support and take time to coach a kid who made a poor decision with the puck.

Was a very interesting dynamic of one program vs another.

Feel bad for those kids in tears, they could not have been having fun playing hockey.

 

So GF, WF, or Bis., I think I might know which one you where at as I may have been there too. 

[TheFlop]

On 2/17/2021 at 1:02 PM, Kab said:

 if you didn’t drive a suburban you weren’t in the club.

maybe that has changed now since I’ve been away from it for 20 years now.

 

 

No you pretty much nailed it. Suburban or Yukon XL no more than 2-3 years old (mid or top trim level of course).  But there is much more to being part of the club than just having the vehicle.  You also must have at least one decal on back window of vehicle advertising which AAA spring team(s) you bought your kids onto the previous year (AAA in name only as the vast majority of the teams have no tryout process and instead are determined by a group of parents kissing a** and pretending to like the couple people in charge of picking the team.......even though secretely no one likes them). 

Regular season teams are determined by a tryout process but instead of hiring independent evaluators to slot kids which is something USA hockey will help facilitate, GF does their own thing in house.  In Grand Forks you mostly have dad coach evaluators whose careers fizzled out in high school trying to make sure their kids are always slotted on the best team whether their talent warrants it or not.  When Steve Johnson hit Hwy 2 to go coach UMC he drug a trail of parents whose lips were still attached to his rear.  Too many egos to get all their kids on a AA team?  Just create an extra AA team like they did at GF PeeWee this year even though there is only one AA Bantam team for those kids to feed into.  

One more thing you can't forget, can't be a hockey mom without black Canada goose down jacket.  Without one of those you might as well be from North of Demers. 

[JakeLove]

On 2/19/2021 at 12:09 PM, Clark17 said:

 

So I have to ask myself this question, if youth hockey was sanctioned through schools would the seasons be shorter allowing even more time for unsanctioned hockey?  I think that is exactly what would happen.    

 

         

This rush for unsanctioned hockey is EXACTLY!!! what happened when NDAHA stopped all activities when Gov Burgum issued a Exec Order that suspended all youth club sports in December. The mad rush for private individuals to rent ice was amazing to watch and entirely predictable. Some even contacted rinks in MN.

Clark17 made a great point about Rule 10 being a barrier to enforce academic and comportment rules. Time to think that one through for a while. 

 

[JakeLove]

TheFlop references having two Pee Wee AA teams in GF as if that is a bad thing. GFYHA did exactly the right thing with that decision. Both teams are equally drafted from the top 30 or so players and do very well against everyone else’s top 15. GFYHA should be applauded for their choice and encouraged to keep doing it. 

[Frozen4sioux]

1 hour ago, JakeLove said:

TheFlop references having two Pee Wee AA teams in GF as if that is a bad thing. GFYHA did exactly the right thing with that decision. Both teams are equally drafted from the top 30 or so players and do very well against everyone else’s top 15. GFYHA should be applauded for their choice and encouraged to keep doing it. 

GFYHA didnt create 2 PWAA teams to accomodate parents ego.....

They just kept doing the exact thing they have been doing and because NDAHA caved to the demands of the uber class parents to the south its now just called "AA".

Its the same teams as they would have had... had it been "A".

Make no mistake these labels are all semantics.

Grand Forks should be commended for the ability to forgo the ego trip of one PW"AA" team.

The Bantam teams, and high school teams will continue to benefit from the depth of development.

Good on GF 

[Frozen4sioux]

That being said... Flop is spot on the Canada Goose Jackets, Vehicles, stickers, and the absolute disgusting moneysuck that is "AAA" hockey.

BTW Im starting a even more ultra exclusive "AAAAAAA" league this spring so if you want your kid getting the exposure that comes with all those extra As, send your $7200 check for 3 tourneys and a cheap jersey to me ASAP. I take bitcoin.

[Clark17]

On 3/9/2021 at 6:15 PM, TheFlop said:

No you pretty much nailed it. Suburban or Yukon XL no more than 2-3 years old (mid or top trim level of course).  But there is much more to being part of the club than just having the vehicle.  You also must have at least one decal on back window of vehicle advertising which AAA spring team(s) you bought your kids onto the previous year (AAA in name only as the vast majority of the teams have no tryout process and instead are determined by a group of parents kissing a** and pretending to like the couple people in charge of picking the team.......even though secretely no one likes them). 

Regular season teams are determined by a tryout process but instead of hiring independent evaluators to slot kids which is something USA hockey will help facilitate, GF does their own thing in house.  In Grand Forks you mostly have dad coach evaluators whose careers fizzled out in high school trying to make sure their kids are always slotted on the best team whether their talent warrants it or not.  When Steve Johnson hit Hwy 2 to go coach UMC he drug a trail of parents whose lips were still attached to his rear.  Too many egos to get all their kids on a AA team?  Just create an extra AA team like they did at GF PeeWee this year even though there is only one AA Bantam team for those kids to feed into.  

One more thing you can't forget, can't be a hockey mom without black Canada goose down jacket.  Without one of those you might as well be from North of Demers. 

They look much too warm to wear in The Icon.  

[UND1983]

Is it illegal in the hockey world to wear a snow cap pulled down over your ears?  

[LetsGoBlues]

Sadly, this hasn't changed from when my son played between 2000 and 2010. 

He started in Bismarck where he had absolutely great coaches who were focused on player/program development...and a travel team at the end of the year that was comprised of players across the program that fed Bismarck High and Century (at the time).  

We subsequently moved to St Louis where he progressed up the ladder and ended up playing for the AAA Blues.  Believe it or not, STL had a SINGLE AAA program for years, out of a metro area of 2+ million.  Lots of Mercedes/Yukons/LandRovers in the parking lot compared to my old Ford Ranger with no stickers in the back window.  

Money did talk, even in player selection.  It culminated in one instance where a kid who skated like Happy Gilmore made the team, only because his folks were loaded and they rented the coach bus for the year for travel to away games

 

[Wilbur]

12 hours ago, Frozen4sioux said:

That being said... Flop is spot on the Canada Goose Jackets, Vehicles, stickers, and the absolute disgusting moneysuck that is "AAA" hockey.

BTW Im starting a even more ultra exclusive "AAAAAAA" league this spring so if you want your kid getting the exposure that comes with all those extra As, send your $7200 check for 3 tourneys and a cheap jersey to me ASAP. I take bitcoin.

Do you take Visa? 

I'm just waiting for one of those 30,000 a year operations to tell me that my ten year old has what it takes to be in their club.  His bags are packed for that day.     

[siouxweet]

12 hours ago, Frozen4sioux said:

GFYHA didnt create 2 PWAA teams to accomodate parents ego.....

They just kept doing the exact thing they have been doing and because NDAHA caved to the demands of the uber class parents to the south its now just called "AA".

Its the same teams as they would have had... had it been "A".

Make no mistake these labels are all semantics.

Grand Forks should be commended for the ability to forgo the ego trip of one PW"AA" team.

The Bantam teams, and high school teams will continue to benefit from the depth of development.

Good on GF 

Both AA hovered around. 500 with most of their success coming against one another.   Both spent most of their season getting beat up by WF and Fargo if you want to call that a successful season. 

[Walsh Hall]

2 hours ago, siouxweet said:

Both AA hovered around. 500 with most of their success coming against one another.   Both spent most of their season getting beat up by WF and Fargo if you want to call that a successful season. 

Fargo - (8) PW teams - 1 AA - top 12.5% of players

WF - (7) PW teams - 1 AA - Top 14% players

Bismarck - (7) PW teams - 1AA - Top 14% of players

GF - (7) PW teams - 2AA - Top 28.5 of players

It is successful because GF is allowing more kids to play with the highest level of competition.  They could have one team and would probably win the league.  I'd say the current system is better for the player's development.

[yzerman19]

CA has 3 sanctioned AAA hockey teams (Jr Kings, Jr Ducks, Jr Sharks) per birth year PeeWee through Midget..that’s 3...in a population of 40M people...or 3 in a population bigger than the country of Canada.  Of course the population that loves hockey is probably 10%, whereas in Canada it’s probably 70%.  
 

T1EHL AAA is different than spring/summer AAA.  I agree with the posters saying most of those are pure ego plays and cash sucks.  “select” “elite” “AAA” all way over-used and over-sold terms.

The other danger is that when parents shell out big $, they expect W’s.  So winning becomes prioritized over development.

 

[siouxweet]

On 3/9/2021 at 6:15 PM, TheFlop said:

No you pretty much nailed it. Suburban or Yukon XL no more than 2-3 years old (mid or top trim level of course).  But there is much more to being part of the club than just having the vehicle.  You also must have at least one decal on back window of vehicle advertising which AAA spring team(s) you bought your kids onto the previous year (AAA in name only as the vast majority of the teams have no tryout process and instead are determined by a group of parents kissing a** and pretending to like the couple people in charge of picking the team.......even though secretely no one likes them). 

Regular season teams are determined by a tryout process but instead of hiring independent evaluators to slot kids which is something USA hockey will help facilitate, GF does their own thing in house.  In Grand Forks you mostly have dad coach evaluators whose careers fizzled out in high school trying to make sure their kids are always slotted on the best team whether their talent warrants it or not.  When Steve Johnson hit Hwy 2 to go coach UMC he drug a trail of parents whose lips were still attached to his rear.  Too many egos to get all their kids on a AA team?  Just create an extra AA team like they did at GF PeeWee this year even though there is only one AA Bantam team for those kids to feed into.  

One more thing you can't forget, can't be a hockey mom without black Canada goose down jacket.  Without one of those you might as well be from North of Demers. 

Smaby isn't  much better as he caves to any parent/coach whining that their kid should be moved up to a higher level.

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, siouxweet said:

Smaby isn't  much better as he caves to any parent/coach whining that their kid should be moved up to a higher level.

What level has that happened at? They are usually pretty strict on who is allowed to play up and I've seen very little of it.

[siouxweet]

8 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

What level has that happened at? They are usually pretty strict on who is allowed to play up and I've seen very little of it.

PeeWee for sure 

[gfhockey]

If they have the last name and the $$$ behind it snd can play

 

let them play