NDSUCKS Dump Thread

[Bison06]

1 minute ago, Cratter said:

Bison fan, "or just claim they forgot to put the banned substance on the label."

Again, do some reading on the supplement industry and it’s labeling standards and then you’ll be able to bring an valuable contribution to this discussion.

[Cratter]

4 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Again, do some reading on the supplement industry and it’s labeling standards and then you’ll be able to bring an valuable contribution to this discussion.

Well that didn't take long for a bison fan to say what I wrote.

I'm constantly amazed at how easy it is to predict what Bison fans will say.

[The Sicatoka]

The claim is the issue is this "Clean Victory" crap. But we don't know for sure; we just have claims. 

So I went and found the NCAA's list of explicitly banned stimulants: 
 

Quote

Stimulants: amphetamine (Adderall); caffeine (guarana); cocaine; ephedrine; methamphetamine; methylphenidate (Ritalin); synephrine (bitter orange); dimethylamylamine (DMAA, methylhexanamine); “bath salts” (mephedrone); Octopamine; hordenine; dimethylbutylamine (DMBA, AMP, 4-amino methylpentane citrate); phenethylamines (PEAs); dimethylhexylamine (DMHA, Octodrine) etc. exceptions: phenylephrine and pseudoephedrine are not banned.

So none of those are in "Clean Victory" products? OK ... so other than getting caffeine at the local Qwik-e-mart ... where'd those controlled substances come from that were detected in Robbins' sample? 

[Bison06]

2 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Well that didn't take long for a bison fan to say what I wrote.

I'm amazed at how easy it is to predict what Bison fans will say.

You literally quoted me, I’ve said that since the beginning.

It is an extremely well known fact that supplement industries are notorious for putting things in their supplements that aren’t explicitly stated on the label or in different quantities than are on the label. It’s the Wild West and players are well educated on this fact through the compliance department at every NCAA institution.

I blame BN if all the details that are coming out for bringing any supplement into a college lockeroom because he would know the supplement industry is notorious for this. But, some of the blame has to be on the player who should know he was playing with fire by putting anything in his body. Though, if I was in his shoes and had a close relationship with a guy like BN, I could see not thinking twice about taking it. I really do feel bad for BR and hope this isn’t the end of his football story.

[Bison06]

1 minute ago, The Sicatoka said:

The claim is the issue is this "Clean Victory" crap. But we don't know for sure; we just have claims. 

So I went and found the NCAA's list of explicitly banned stimulants: 
 

So none of those are in "Clean Victory" products? OK ... so other than getting caffeine at the local Qwik-e-mart ... where'd those controlled substances come from that were detected in Robbins' sample? 

Caffeine in high doses can be a failed test. Maybe he took a lot of it?  250 mg per dose is pretty standard for a preworkout,  but if you took a larger dose maybe that triggers a positive stimulant test in the NCAA’s eyes. I don’t know enough about their testing.

[The Sicatoka]

1 minute ago, Bison06 said:

Caffeine in high doses can be a failed test. Maybe he took a lot of it?  250 mg per dose is pretty standard for a preworkout,  but if you took a larger dose maybe that triggers a positive stimulant test in the NCAA’s eyes. I don’t know enough about their testing.

So Robbins stopped at the 19th and University Stop-n-Go pre-game and grabbed a 64 oz fountain Dr. Pepper (more caffeine than even Mountain Dew) and whizzed a post-game positive. 

I have a cold adult-type beverage of your choice for you if the chemical that caused the fail was caffeine. 

[Bison06]

15 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Well that didn't take long for a bison fan to say what I wrote.

I'm constantly amazed at how easy it is to predict what Bison fans will say.

http://www.ncaa.org/2018-19-ncaa-banned-drugs-list

scroll about half way down the page and read bullet points 1-3.

[Bison06]

Just now, The Sicatoka said:

So Robbins stopped at the 19th and University Stop-n-Go pre-game and grabbed a 64 oz fountain Dr. Pepper (more caffeine than even Mountain Dew) and whizzed a post-game positive. 

I have a cold adult-type beverage of your choice for you if the chemical that caused the fail was caffeine. 

Caffeine is literally on the list of banned stimulants and is in the supplement he allegedly took. What’s the mystery? Not saying it’s case closed, but it’s certainly a possibility.

[Cratter]

3 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

http://www.ncaa.org/2018-19-ncaa-banned-drugs-list

scroll about half way down the page and read bullet points 1-3.

That will make Bison fans less predictable?

[Cratter]

"Too much Red Bull" screamed the Bison Fans again!

[90siouxfan]

Nowhere near an expert but I wonder if NDSU and/or BN figured out a way to "game" the NCAA pre work out ban criteria using timing, amount, additives or unknown methodology. using the in house NDSU testing program as a laboratory.  BR did not follow the protocol to a tee, or perhaps had a health issue that disrupted the methodology?  Either way the lack of transparency by the FCS reigning superpower should be raising eyebrows, if only NCAA cared about JV football.

[The Sicatoka]

Frankly, I do not believe NDSU should be investigated. 

I believe this Ben Newman fellow should be and wherever his tracks may lead que sera sera. 

[The Sicatoka]

7 minutes ago, 90siouxfan said:

Nowhere near an expert but I wonder if NDSU and/or BN figured out a way to "game" the NCAA pre work out ban criteria using timing, amount, additives or unknown methodology. using the in house NDSU testing program as a laboratory.  BR did not follow the protocol to a tee, or perhaps had a health issue that disrupted the methodology?  Either way the lack of transparency by the FCS reigning superpower should be raising eyebrows, if only NCAA cared about JV football.

No, the openly refuting of the claims of their starting FB and his NDSU Athletics HOF mother should also be raising eyebrows. 

"Robbins family, meet undercarriage of bus. The gent there already is Mr. Newman (as placed by some former NDSU players, e.g. Travis Beck)." 

[The Sicatoka]

12 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Caffeine is literally on the list of banned stimulants and is in the supplement he allegedly took. What’s the mystery? Not saying it’s case closed, but it’s certainly a possibility.

Yes it is. But he's also admitted 'supplement'. 

If it really was too much gulping Big Gulps, sure; but, it's not. It's taking in something they'd been warned about. 

And they got caught. 

Now some of the other interesting practices (self-testing) and characters (Ben Newman) are coming into the light. 

[Bison06]

Just now, The Sicatoka said:

Yes it is. But he's also admitted 'supplement'. 

If it really was too much gulping Big Gulps, sure; but, it's not. It's taking in something they'd been warned about. 

And they got caught. 

Now some of the other interesting practices (self-testing) and characters (Ben Newman) are coming into the light. 

Caffeine is an ingredient in the supplement we are talking about and also on the list of banned stimulants. It very well could be the ingredient that caused the positive test. What am I missing in your logic?

[The Sicatoka]

Travis Beck's reply to Kolpack's tweet says so much in so few words. 

"Pound the Stone" is a Newman catch-phase. 

And that's Beck's answer to the Kolpack story on Robbins. 

[The Sicatoka]

3 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Caffeine is an ingredient in the supplement we are talking about and also on the list of banned stimulants. It very well could be the ingredient that caused the positive test. What am I missing in your logic?

I'm saying I'll be very surprised if it comes out that the issue was caffeine. 

[Bison06]

Just now, The Sicatoka said:

I'm saying I'll be very surprised if it comes out that the issue was caffeine. 

Can I ask why? It’s on the list just like the rest of them and in every single preworkout supplement on the market. If BR is to be taken at his word about what he took, caffeine is head and shoulders above other stimulants as the most likely cause.

 

[Cratter]

7 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Travis Beck's reply to Kolpack's tweet says so much in so few words. 

"Pound the Stone" is a Newman catch-phase. 

And that's Beck's answer to the Kolpack story on Robbins. 

Newman was the known caffeine distributor?

[The Sicatoka]

10 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

Can I ask why? ... caffeine is head and shoulders above other stimulants as the most likely cause.

The biologic half-life of caffeine is 5-6 hours in an average adult. 
Now put that to a college athlete, with say double the muscle mass, and having just played a game. 
I'd guess the bio half-life was down in the 3 hour range that day by exertion and excretion. 

And now, having said that, tell me he took that "pre-workout" supplement ... pre-game? 

 

Could it be caffeine? Sure. 
Was it? As I said, I'd be surprised. 
It'll probably be in the big, completely transparent NDSU self-audit study and report they'll put out Monday uncovering and exposing every relationship and detail. 

[Bison06]

6 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

The biologic half-life of caffeine is 5-6 hours in an average adult. 
Now put that to a college athlete, with say double the muscle mass, and having just played a game. 
I'd guess the bio half-life was down in the 3 hour range that day by exertion and excretion. 

And now, having said that, tell me he took that "pre-workout" supplement ... pre-game? 

 

Could it be caffeine? Sure. 
Was it? As I said, I'd be surprised. 
It'll probably be in the big, completely transparent NDSU self-audit study and report they'll put out Monday uncovering and exposing every relationship and detail. 

It’s also possible you’re taking the term “preworkout” too literally.

Many people drink them throughout their workout or throughout the game.

[The Sicatoka]

2 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

It’s also possible you’re taking the term “preworkout” too literally.

Many people drink them throughout their workout or throughout the game.

Which probably explains why the NCAA has chemicals found in them on the naughty list. 

[homer]

4 minutes ago, Bison06 said:

It’s also possible you’re taking the term “preworkout” too literally.

Many people drink them throughout their workout or throughout the game.

Are you stating facts on this particular situation?  

[Bison06]

3 minutes ago, homer said:

Are you stating facts on this particular situation?  

Is this a trick question? 

Yes athletes take “preworkouts” before games, during games, at half time of games, on the sideline during games, before going out for a night, before going to class, just sitting around watching tv if you feel like catching a quick buzz. They are taken all of the time.

[Old Fella]

5 hours ago, Gothmog said:

I'm not trying minimize anything. Those are legitimate  questions and no one on this forum knows the answers.

Obviously, if NDSU staff did give the player the supplement, or if more players are involved, that's a problem. But we don't know that that's what happened, and until you do you're just engaging in wishful thinking about a rival. You want this to be true. But the evidence just isn't there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

'It's easier to fool someone than it is to convince someone they have been fooled'.

Mark Twain