Time to Boo Berry?

[nodakvindy]

3 hours ago, siouxkid12 said:

are you saying we would've won in 2020?

No, I'm saying there wasn't a tournament and we don't know what would have happened, so there is at least some mitigation to winning 1 NCAA game since the 2016 title.  Context is a good thing.

[gfhockey]

3 hours ago, SIOUXELEVENS said:

Agree felt bad for Johnson getting thrown to the western wolves , why wouldn’t Berry have  put Deridder in for the third. 

That was a big middle finger given to the key board warriors asking him to play

[nodakvindy]

18 hours ago, SIOUXELEVENS said:

So missing the ncaa’s 3 times and one win after 2016 is ok with you because he wins league titles? Players come here for national titles. 

Which again, he has won, ending the second longest drought in school history.  Decide what you want, winning titles or just making the tournament.  It's the same argument Red Sox and Yankees fans have had over the past 20 years.

[fightingsioux4life]

2 minutes ago, nodakvindy said:

Which again, he has won, ending the second longest drought in school history.  Decide what you want, winning titles or just making the tournament.  It's the same argument Red Sox and Yankees fans have had over the past 20 years.

That is a patently false choice. This is not an either/or, zero sum game. It is possible to make the tournament regularly AND win NCAA titles. If other schools can do it, so can we.

[fightingsioux4life]

16 minutes ago, gfhockey said:

That was a big middle finger given to the key board warriors asking him to play

You really think Berry cares what we post?

[Blackheart]

28 minutes ago, gfhockey said:

That was a big middle finger given to the key board warriors asking him to play

Nice take...pretty sure B-rad has better things to do than read the rantings of us experts on here.

[nodakvindy]

16 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

That is a patently false choice. This is not an either/or, zero sum game. It is possible to make the tournament regularly AND win NCAA titles. If other schools can do it, so can we.

I'm pointing it out in the context of this discussion.  I agree both can be done.  Blais did both (missed one tourney after reviving the program), Hak made the tourney but no NCAA titles, Berry won a title but has missed the tourney. And until we are eliminated from the Frozen Faceoff, we don't know we are out of the NCAA tourney this year.

[90siouxfan]

Should coach have recognized that he did have speed of snipers and planned on a season of dull trap hockey?

[stoneySIOUX]

9 minutes ago, 90siouxfan said:

Should coach have recognized that he did have speed of snipers and planned on a season of dull trap hockey?

Honestly just clarifying, but are you saying we don't have team speed and are playing trap hockey this year?

[siouxkid12]

2 hours ago, nodakvindy said:

No, I'm saying there wasn't a tournament and we don't know what would have happened, so there is at least some mitigation to winning 1 NCAA game since the 2016 title.  Context is a good thing.

No, you basically implied that UND was going to win that year. As of right now Berry is going down the path of Don Lucia and we all know what happened with that program for the longest time.

[siouxkid12]

1 hour ago, nodakvindy said:

I'm pointing it out in the context of this discussion.  I agree both can be done.  Blais did both (missed one tourney after reviving the program), Hak made the tourney but no NCAA titles, Berry won a title but has missed the tourney. And until we are eliminated from the Frozen Faceoff, we don't know we are out of the NCAA tourney this year.

You know exactly where this team will be come NCAA tournament time, you just don't want to admit it.

[stoneySIOUX]

13 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

You know exactly where this team will be come NCAA tournament time, you just don't want to admit it.

He's just saying they are still playing games. I don't understand why this is a big deal. 

We could be 0-20 and still win out in the playoff and make the tourney. He's not saying it's going to happen. He's saying it's possible, and he's right. 

[stoneySIOUX]

On 2/25/2023 at 11:58 PM, Big A HG said:

 

Found Brad Berry's burner account. 

This legit made me lol. Well done. And I'm always in the duckies and bunnies crowd 

[stoneySIOUX]

2 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

That is a patently false choice. This is not an either/or, zero sum game. It is possible to make the tournament regularly AND win NCAA titles. If other schools can do it, so can we.

Definitely agree, but there is kind of a double speak on here and I have always had a tough time with what our standard should be. Personally, I want UND to compete for a national title every season and to make the tournament. It's wholly unrealistic to expect a national championship every year. Some say we should win it every year. I think, and I could be wrong, but what is/are/should be this program's expectations each year?

[SIOUXELEVENS]

1 minute ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Definitely agree, but there is kind of a double speak on here and I have always had a tough time with what our standard should be. Personally, I want UND to compete for a national title every season and to make the tournament. It's wholly unrealistic to expect a national championship every year. Some say we should win it every year. I think, and I could be wrong, but what is/are/should be this program's expectations each year?

I think home ice for the NCHC tourney and at least get into the NCAA be bare minimum , we just need to be playing out best hockey at the end of the year and that doesn’t seem to happen with this staff for whatever reason. 

[Irish]

21 hours ago, SIOUXELEVENS said:

So missing the ncaa’s 3 times and one win after 2016 is ok with you because he wins league titles? Players come here for national titles. 

Or at least they used to

 

[90siouxfan]

1 hour ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Honestly just clarifying, but are you saying we don't have team speed and are playing trap hockey this year?

Other than a few players we are slow as heck, looking at Senden / Hain in particular since they get so many minutes....  Should coach have embraced a New Jersey mindset and played the trap until we cried...  oh, wait....

[jdub27]

3 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

That is a patently false choice. This is not an either/or, zero sum game. It is possible to make the tournament regularly AND win NCAA titles. If other schools can do it, so can we.

As a whole, it absolutely is a zero-sum game. There are at least a handful of other programs who have very similar expectations as UND annually.
You are literally making that point saying "other schools can do it, so can we". Well, if someone is winning NCAA titles every year, that means no one else is. There is only one national championship a year to be had. Competing for one annually vs. winning one annually are two completely different things.
 

30 minutes ago, SIOUXELEVENS said:

I think home ice for the NCHC tourney and at least get into the NCAA be bare minimum , we just need to be playing out best hockey at the end of the year and that doesn’t seem to happen with this staff for whatever reason. 

The last coach did a great job of that and there were plenty of people who wanted to run him out of town because he couldn't win the big one. They said they'd trade a few years of mediocrity for a title, similar to what some other programs had done.

[fightingsioux4life]

19 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Definitely agree, but there is kind of a double speak on here and I have always had a tough time with what our standard should be. Personally, I want UND to compete for a national title every season and to make the tournament. It's wholly unrealistic to expect a national championship every year. Some say we should win it every year. I think, and I could be wrong, but what is/are/should be this program's expectations each year?

Every year? Gosh no, hockey isn't watered-down like FCS football. 

But when I point out that Denver and Duluth have each won two NCAA titles since our last title, the response I get is something along the lines of "Well, we just cannot expect those results here." Why not? When did our standards and expectations drop to the point where early exits from the NCAA tournament and missing the tournament are greeted with shrugged shoulders?

That is what bothers me and others on this topic.

[fightingsioux4life]

9 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

As a whole, it absolutely is a zero-sum game. There are at least a handful of other programs who have very similar expectations as UND annually.
You are literally making that point saying "other schools can do it, so can we". Well, if someone is winning NCAA titles every year, that means no one else is. There is only one national championship a year to be had. Competing for one annually vs. winning one annually are two completely different things.

Denver and Duluth have each won two NCAA titles since we hung #8. If Denver wins it this year (a distinct possibility), it would mark their third title in six years (not counting the non-tournament 2020 COVID year). That's a .500 batting average for those keeping score at home. Yet I am told UND cannot expect to win NCAA titles because of any number of reasons (parity, lucky bounces, one-and-done format). The idea that UND is incapable of having that kind of success is ludicrous.

[stoneySIOUX]

41 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

As a whole, it absolutely is a zero-sum game. There are at least a handful of other programs who have very similar expectations as UND annually.
You are literally making that point saying "other schools can do it, so can we". Well, if someone is winning NCAA titles every year, that means no one else is. There is only one national championship a year to be had. Competing for one annually vs. winning one annually are two completely different things.
 

The last coach did a great job of that and there were plenty of people who wanted to run him out of town because he couldn't win the big one. They said they'd trade a few years of mediocrity for a title, similar to what some other programs had done.

THIS is my point. There's NO CHANCE we have a reasonable enough group of fans that could take a significant lull. Know why it was ok in UMD? Because no one really gave a crap. Much smaller fan base back then.

Until we have a real understanding (when I say real, I mean people realizing that winning a national championship every year is just dumb and the competitive landscape has absolutely changed since the 90s and 2000s) of what SHOULD BE our expectations every year, this nonsense argument of wanting to get rid of a coach every season will just never stop. 

I guess the moral of the story, we'll be in endless cycle of lather, rinse, repeat if we don't win a title in any given season.

[SIOUXELEVENS]

No one expects them to win it every year but they should be competitive in all aspects including recruiting. Take Berrys first year out and tell me what we have ?

[brianvf]

22 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

But when I point out that Denver and Duluth have each won two NCAA titles since our last title, the response I get is something along the lines of "Well, we just cannot expect those results here."

I think it's less that "we can't expect those results here" and more "no program should expect those results consistently".
You're choosing a very small sample size (2017-current).  The one-and-done format of the NCAA's means that you have to have a talented team that is playing well at the right time...and you also need a little luck.  Both of those programs winning two titles since our last title is more of an outlier, less of the norm.  Team success is cyclical, everyone goes thru their ups and downs.

Take UMD.  They went the first 60+ years of their existence without a single title.  Then another 6 before their next.  And, if I'm being honest, I see UMD entering another title drought.

DU had 5 of their titles in the 50's and 60's.  Then had nothing during the 70s/80s/90s...three plus decades of no titles, with most of those teams not even making the tourney.  Then they get their back to back followed by another 12 year drought.

[fightingsioux4life]

2 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

THIS is my point. There's NO CHANCE we have a reasonable enough group of fans that could take a significant lull. Until we have a real understanding (when I say real, I mean people realizing that winning a national championship every year is just dumb and the competitive landscape has absolutely changed since the 90s and 2000s) of what SHOULD BE our expectations every year, this nonsense argument of wanting to get rid of a coach every season will just never stop.

The changing landscape doesn't seem to have negatively impacted Denver at all.

The basics of recruiting, coaching and locker room culture will always determine success or lack thereof. And all three are suspect at UND this year.

[stoneySIOUX]

2 minutes ago, SIOUXELEVENS said:

No one expects them to win it every year but they should be competitive in all aspects including recruiting. Take Berrys first year out and tell me what we have ?

Many, many people have said they expect title wins every season. Whether they believe it or not, I can't tell you that.

The bolded part is my problem. He's been INCREDIBLY SUCCESSFUL by all logical standards. Basically, he's been a top 5 coach nationally. This season happens, and it's all not enough.