Kennedy vs. Engelstad Foundation: GF herald feature

[SiouxVolley]

The 501(C)(3) charity is the one that calls the overall shots, like a Board of Directors.  The other two official organizations are executives in charge of handling day to day operations.

Back in 2001 or later when the Betty was proposed, it made sense for UND athletics to go in by granting the REA 52% of basketball and football tickets to the REA.  Hyslop needed a replacement, the Ralph needed an attached area that would serve other purposes, like in did for the U20 World Juniors tournament and the Ralph could issue bonds for constructing the Betty, which UND is not allowed to do.  The Betty was also allowed to serve beer, which is forbidden at other locations on campus.  But the Betty had a very strict construction budget, unlike the Ralph.  Heard back then through a vendor that the Betty really went cheap on things a spectator wouldn’t see, like the quality of electrical devices and presuming roofing materials.   The Ralph on the other hand was built first class in everything.

But after 15 years, the Betty still hasn’t paid off those bonds, although mostly interest payments have been made.  But that agreement really constrains football to upgrade its facilities, and that is where Kennedy is most concerned IMHO.  Football shouldn’t be tied together with the Ralph.  If the 501(C)(3) board made an effort with the HPC or other facilities, there would be no concerns by me.  Maybe they have made efforts, but tha hasn’t been reported.

[Cratter]

46 minutes ago, ticklethetwine said:

he isn’t getting 100k raise every year.

Not every year. 100K raise just the first year. Then 3%. It'll end at $450,000 base salary last year of the contract.

Wouldn't be surprised if the raise came out of a Engelstad family donation.

[ticklethetwine]

5 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

The 501(C)(3) charity is the one that calls the overall shots, like a Board of Directors.  The other two official organizations are executives in charge of handling day to day operations.

Back in 2001 or later when the Betty was proposed, it made sense for UND athletics to go in by granting the REA 52% of basketball and football tickets to the REA.  Hyslop needed a replacement, the Ralph needed an attached area that would serve other purposes, like in did for the U20 World Juniors tournament and the Ralph could issue bonds for constructing the Betty, which UND is not allowed to do.  The Betty was also allowed to serve beer, which is forbidden at other locations on campus.  But the Betty had a very strict construction budget, unlike the Ralph.  Heard back then through a vendor that the Betty really went cheap on things a spectator wouldn’t see, like the quality of electrical devices and presuming roofing materials.   The Ralph on the other hand was built first class in everything.

But after 15 years, the Betty still hasn’t paid off those bonds, although mostly interest payments have been made.  But that agreement really constrains football to upgrade its facilities, and that is where Kennedy is most concerned IMHO.  Football shouldn’t be tied together with the Ralph.  If the 501(C)(3) board made an effort with the HPC or other facilities, there would be no concerns by me.  Maybe they have made efforts, but tha hasn’t been reported.

I agree football should not even be in this equation. That was a poorly negotiatied part. Football doesn’t even touch the Ralph. 

[Cratter]

51 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Ralph could issue bonds for constructing the Betty, which UND is not allowed to do. But after 15 years, the Betty still hasn’t paid off those bonds, although mostly interest payments have been made.   

So should we be happy or upset the Ralph built UND basketball and volleyball a new facility?

As you point out, If UND had owned and operated the Ralph, they couldn't have built the Betty and the basketball teams would likely still be playing in Hyslop. (Which they are going to tear down with all the other buildings scheduled for demolition on the campus?)

[SIOUXFAN97]

18 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Is the REA in existence for the benefit of UND athletics, or the Engelstad Foundation? 

this seems to the question that really needs to get answered...especially by mcgarry

[Hawkster]

23 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Is the REA in existence for the benefit of UND athletics, or the Engelstad Foundation? 

The premise was for the benefit of UND but that still doesn't make a legal case to change what UND willing agreed to over 20 years ago.    It's a lousy agreement, don't get me wrong, but can't really be changed IMO without full agreement from the Englestad family.    Maybe they should have asked for advice from the law school before agreeing to the terms.

[UNDBIZ]

1 minute ago, TRex said:

The premise was for the benefit of UND but that still doesn't make a legal case to change what UND willing agreed to over 20 years ago.    It's a lousy agreement, don't get me wrong, but can't really be changed IMO without full agreement from the Englestad family.    Maybe they should have asked for advice from the law school before agreeing to the terms.

They're one year agreements. 

[Hawkster]

1 minute ago, UNDBIZ said:

They're one year agreements. 

So none of this is tied to the original donation agreement 20+ years ago?

[tnt]

1 hour ago, UND-1 said:

It's almost like a few things have changed in the last 17 years. Huh

Why were people not complaining about what a crappy deal this Engelstad Arena has been before the Herald article?    I don’t fault Kennedy for trying to negotiate a new contract if he saw a better deal for UND, but when you don’t hold the cards, it isn’t very smart to go in with guns blazing.  If I get pulled over by the police and hope I just get off with a warning, I don’t ask him/her for their badge number and tell them I am going to tell their superior about the incident.  Best to be humble when you are not in a position with leverage.

[jdub27]

The Betty is being repaid exactly as it should, which is through the revenue share of UND and the REA plus operating profits from other events. 

The revenue share is supposed to be revisited every year. There is a decade plus old article out there with Jody Hodgson saying exactly that if you don't believe it. 

[UNDBIZ]

17 minutes ago, Cratter said:

So should we be happy or upset the Ralph built UND basketball and volleyball a new facility?

As you point out, If UND had owned and operated the Ralph, they couldn't have built the Betty and the basketball teams would likely still be playing in Hyslop. (Which they are going to tear down with all the other buildings scheduled for demolition on the campus?)

There were other ways to get it built. Could have had the Foundation bond for it and paid them rent to pay the bond. 

[jdub27]

1 minute ago, tnt said:

Why were people not complaining on what a crappy deal this Engelstad Arena has been before the Herald article?    I don’t fault Kennedy for trying to negotiate a new contract if he saw a better deal for UND, but when you don’t hold the cards, it isn’t very smart to go in with guns blazing.  If I get pulled over by the police and hope I just get off with a warning, I don’t ask him/her for their badge number and tell them I am going to tell their superior about the incident.  Best to be humble when you are not in a position with leverage.

Probably because UND wasn't having huge budget issues so there was no need to revisit it and everyone just signed off. A new contract is supposed to be signed every year. 

[UNDBIZ]

2 minutes ago, TRex said:

So none of this is tied to the original donation agreement 20+ years ago?

The football, basketball, and volleyball ticket split isn't.

[tnt]

1 minute ago, jdub27 said:

Probably because UND wasn't having huge budget issues so there was no need to revisit it and everyone just signed off. A new contract is supposed to be signed every year. 

So they only look out for the bottom line during tough times?  Maybe the legislature should ask them to double the cuts, they could probably do it easily when they actually need to.

[Blackheart]

6 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

If TK (who I really liked) was that good, why didn't he lock down the nickname forever. 

Why would he have to?  Didn't the Peace Pipe Ceremony in 1969 take care of that?  Or so we all thought anyway...

[Cratter]

5 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

There were other ways to get it built. Could have had the Foundation bond for it and paid them rent to pay the bond. 

Wonder why they never did that then? 

Same with completing IPF phase two?

Same with a new on campus football stadium instead of waiting for the city to build them one (Alerus).

All of UND's major sports are playing in a nice facility because someone or something other than the University stepped up to the plate.

[Blackheart]

1 minute ago, Cratter said:

Wonder why they never did that then? 

Same with completing IPF phase two?

Same with a new on campus football stadium instead of waiting for the city to build them one (Alerus).

All of UND's major sports are playing in a nice facility because someone or something other than the University stepped up to the plate.

^^^THIS^^^

[Csonked Out]

8 minutes ago, tnt said:

Why were people not complaining about what a crappy deal this Engelstad Arena has been before the Herald article?    I don’t fault Kennedy for trying to negotiate a new contract if he saw a better deal for UND, but when you don’t hold the cards, it isn’t very smart to go in with guns blazing.  If I get pulled over by the police and hope I just get off with a warning, I don’t ask him/her for their badge number and tell them I am going to tell their superior about the incident.  Best to be humble when you are not in a position with leverage.

No one here has any idea how negotiations have been going. We have heard from one party on the matter and that is all. 

[UNDBIZ]

Just now, Cratter said:

Wonder why they never did that then? 

Same with completing the IPF phase two?

Same with a new on campus football stadium instead of waiting for the city to build them one.

All of UND's major sports are playing in a nice facility because someone or something other than the University stepped up to the plate.

That was actually a new ploy pulled by ndsu a few years later when the state told them they could only build their new business school with non-state funds. Pretty sure that specific method of getting a new building is illegal now. 

[Milford torgerson]

2 hours ago, ticklethetwine said:

I agree football should not even be in this equation. That was a poorly negotiatied part. Football doesn’t even touch the Ralph. 

While football shouldn't be in the equation, I doubt the englestad agreements are in any way holding football back.  It's not like football is cranking out big dollars in ticket revenue and tv money.  Hockey as a whole is consuming people's sports budgets is where football is being hurt but that isn't necessarily the fault of the Englestad agreements

[tnt]

1 hour ago, Csonked Out said:

No one here has any idea how negotiations have been going. We have heard from one party on the matter and that is all. 

Well I’m guessing since they have been putting out fires, and aren’t on good terms, that isn’t a sign of good negotiation. Negotiation usually works best when one party doesn’t view the other as hostile.

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

Status quo is a powerful tool, and the path of zero resistance. It's one thing to tweak numbers here and there each year; it's another thing entirely to reconstruct the math.

Kennedy played the renegotiation card (probably the first time it's ever been played) and look where it's gotten him.

Kelley, having presided over years of ND prosperity and loose cash, didn't want to exercise the nuclear option so late in his tenure, so it fell to Kennedy. Depending on the net gain to UND if the gambit ultimately works, a little PR smudge may be a small price to pay. One that will be forgotten over time, accelerated by a period of financial stability and athletic successes. The jury is still out (for me, at least) as to whether the risk was worth it.

Engelstads can do with their money whatever they want. Thin-skinned philanthropists are a curious breed.

[bincitysioux]

I have to say I really want to be a Kennedy supporter.  Given his business and political background, I hoped he might be a breath of fresh air compared to most typical University presidents.  

But now given his disasterous decision to move UND sports to the SumValley, coupled with the fact that he is apparently alienating the University's largest benefactor, me thinks this guy might be completely inept and needs to go away.

Whether or not everything McGarry says is true, it is obvious she is pissed off, and the relationship is weak at best.

Funny that Kennedy doesn't flat out deny saying the things McGarry has alleged.  Only that he doesn't "recall" saying most of them.........

[cberkas]

1 minute ago, bincitysioux said:

I have to say I really want to be a Kennedy supporter.  Given his business and political background, I hoped he might be a breath of fresh air compared to most typical University presidents.  

But now given his disasterous decision to move UND sports to the SumValley, coupled with the fact that he is apparently alienating the University's largest benefactor, me thinks this guy might be completely inept and needs to go away.

Whether or not everything McGarry says is true, it is obvious she is pissed off, and the relationship is weak at best.

Funny that Kennedy doesn't flat out deny saying the things McGarry has alleged.  Only that he doesn't "recall" saying most of them.........

I'm sure Kennedy is keeping it private like he would with all donors and McGarry isn't happy about something so she went to the Herald. She sure sounded like she didn't want Kennedy to be hired and wasn't happy that a bigger university had interest in him. If the relationship is so frayed then why would he ask her to invest into something for the university? 

Quote

"I want to see him do his job," she said. "I don't want to see anybody fired."

 So, she want him to do his job, unless its to renegotiate a contract with her to help out with the budget cuts at a university her family supports?

I still don't see why she brought up the nickname and said its not an issue when it looks like there is an issue.

[Big Lubowski]

1 hour ago, bincitysioux said:

I have to say I really want to be a Kennedy supporter.  Given his business and political background, I hoped he might be a breath of fresh air compared to most typical University presidents.  

But now given his disasterous decision to move UND sports to the SumValley, coupled with the fact that he is apparently alienating the University's largest benefactor, me thinks this guy might be completely inept and needs to go away.

Whether or not everything McGarry says is true, it is obvious she is pissed off, and the relationship is weak at best.

Funny that Kennedy doesn't flat out deny saying the things McGarry has alleged.  Only that he doesn't "recall" saying most of them.........

If he did that, he would be calling McGarry a liar. I suspect he wanted to avoid doing that.