tnt Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 55 minutes ago, Walsh Hall said: Recruiting is so much harder today than it was 20 years ago. Look at the current top 20. I'd argue that only 3 teams in the top 20 are the old blue bloods of college hockey. Denver 7, Michigan 14, UND 17, no Minnesota, BU, BC, Wisconsin... With the depth of kids coming up, early recruiting, and a relatively static number of programs the old days of the other Minnesota programs truly being gopher rejects just isn't the case any more. Minnesota used to essentially have their pick of the top five Minnesota HS players every year. We still get a nice percentage of the kids we target, but the percent that pan out isn't the best. That's really no different than the other top programs. Good luck predicting the 14 or 15 year old kid that will be able to pick a corner at an elite level when he's 20 or 21. Or do you wait and see if 17-19 year old kids that develop are uncommitted and still hope they can produce at the college level? Add in the young recruit that pans out is probably gone after 2 years. If they don't pan out you're stuck with a below average player for 4 years. I think the expectation of any program being elite year in and year old is flawed. I don't think the expectation is flawed, but certainly there are things that are tough to manage when you aren't sure who is going to leave. I do think the formula that worked in the past, doesn't work as well with multiple players leaving early every year. Perhaps you need to error more on the side of bringing in scorers or older players. We certainly hit the jackpot with older guys like Paul LaDue and Tucker Poolman, guys who were physically ready to play from day one, although there was still a learning curve. I think Mankato has a pretty good formula bringing in guys at 20 that scored well in their later years of Junior hockey. Many of the guys we have coming in next year project as scorers, but it isn't a given, especially when most of them will be only 18, playing against teams that have 23-24 year olds. Yes, they have a higher ceiling, but only if they stay a few years to combine the talent with more maturity and muscle. I do think the coaches have to leave a little room in scholarship money for late bloomers and guys that decide late they want to go the college route yet are elite players. Would they even have room right now to add a Marcus Kallionkieli or another big scorer that wants to rethink their college commitment? I'd like to think they would find a way to fit someone like that in, especially with the problems they have in putting the puck in the net right now. By the way, since it is a year by year commitment for scholarship money, it isn't unheard of to tell someone that they are welcome to be on the team but they won't have scholarship money available. Obviously, not something you want to have to do, but wasn't there a coach out east that dumped a lot of scholarships last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franchise Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 2 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said: The NHL. How many of those come along? Let's be realistic. I get it... we need more scoring. But how often do those type of lines come along? Once every 10 years? CBS, DOT and Money Line? Pony Express. I don't even see one pony. We have a bunch of donkey lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 3 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said: The NHL. How many of those come along? Let's be realistic. I get it... we need more scoring. But how often do those type of lines come along? Once every 10 years? CBS, DOT and Money Line? It’s just wishful thinking on my part...;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 3 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said: The NHL. How many of those come along? Let's be realistic. I get it... we need more scoring. But how often do those type of lines come along? Once every 10 years? CBS, DOT and Money Line? We're not asking for a DOT line - at this point we would settle for top lines like Duluth and St. Clown. Absolutely no reason we don't have any scorers here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneySIOUX Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Irish said: We're not asking for a DOT line - at this point we would settle for top lines like Duluth and St. Clown. Absolutely no reason we don't have any scorers here. He was literally asking for that line. I also did say that we need more scoring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Irish said: We're not asking for a DOT line - at this point we would settle for top lines like Duluth and St. Clown. Absolutely no reason we don't have any scorers here. And who are those top lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHeavenThereIsNoBeer Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Blackheart said: Where have gone CBS line? Sioux Nation turns it’s lonely eyes to you... 10 minutes ago, Irish said: We're not asking for a DOT line - at this point we would settle for top lines like Duluth and St. Clown. Absolutely no reason we don't have any scorers here. 7 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said: He was literally asking for that line. I also did say that we need more scoring. He was actually asking for a CBS line, which is much more reasonable... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said: He was actually asking for a CBS line, which is much more reasonable... Actually I was just paraphrasing the song ‘Mrs Robinson’. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneySIOUX Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Blackheart said: Actually I was just paraphrasing the song ‘Mrs Robinson’. :) Hahahaha well... looking back at the thread, this changes things. But, I do get your overall point -- We need scorers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneySIOUX Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 26 minutes ago, Irish said: We're not asking for a DOT line - at this point we would settle for top lines like Duluth and St. Clown. Absolutely no reason we don't have any scorers here. It's really simple, IMO. We've missed on one class, as far as I'm concerned and one of that class is in the NHL. Sophs aren't scoring yet consistently, but can absolutely get there based on what I've seen. Same for the freshmen. I think the expectation for instant scoring from each freshman class is unrealistic regardless of who we are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIOUXELEVENS Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Who can you count on to score in a crunch, Mismash, nope. Kuch, nope. Weatherby, nope, The Finn nope. Your down a goal who goes out there, no idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, SIOUXELEVENS said: Who can you count on to score in a crunch, Mismash, nope. Kuch, nope. Weatherby, nope, The Finn nope. Your down a goal who goes out there, no idea Jonesy, when healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneySIOUX Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, SIOUXELEVENS said: Who can you count on to score in a crunch, Mismash, nope. Kuch, nope. Weatherby, nope, The Finn nope. Your down a goal who goes out there, no idea And? I agree, but what's your point? It sucks... I agree. Is that your point? Lol it's pretty easy to say that a team who is scoring 2.5 GPG needs to score more goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, SIOUXELEVENS said: Who can you count on to score in a crunch, Mismash, nope. Kuch, nope. Weatherby, nope, The Finn nope. Your down a goal who goes out there, no idea And the first 3 you mentioned everybody thought were great gets for the coaches, and less so for Jones. Kind of goes to show you that you can't always count on Junior numbers to translate to college success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneySIOUX Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 minute ago, tnt said: And the first 3 you mentioned everybody thought were great gets for the coaches, and less so for Jones. Kind of goes to show you that you can't always count on Junior numbers to translate to college success. Other than JJ, they're one year and 10 games for the Sophs and 10 games into their UND career... just because they aren't scoring consistently today doesn't mean they won't score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 7 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said: Other than JJ, they're one year and 10 games for the Sophs and 10 games into their UND career... just because they aren't scoring consistently today doesn't mean they won't score. Agree 100 percent. Sometimes the young impact players can be ones you would never expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tradition Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 With all this talk about our lack of scoring, I thought I'd do a little research to see just how many points per game our forwards scored in their final year before enrolling at UND. Here are the results along with the league in which they played: SENIORS Jones 1.07 BCHL Gardner 1.00 BCHL Janatuinen .94 USHL JUNIORS Smith 1.13 MJHL Hoff 1.02 USHL Yon .64 USHL Bowen .47 BCHL SOPHOMORES Kawaguchi 1.55 BCHL Mismash .94 USDP Adams .89 USHL FRESHMEN Weatherby 1.23 BCHL Hain .57 USDP Keane .49 BCHL Senden .40 USHL INCOMING RECRUITS (THIS YEAR'S CURRENT STATS) Blaisdell 1.22 BCHL Caufield 1.15 USDP Pinto 1.13 USHL Rizzo 1.11 BCHL RECENT FORMER HIGH SCORING FORWARDS FOR COMPARISON Jost 2.12 BCHL Boeser 1.19 USHL Schmaltz 1.15 USHL Caggiula 1.36 OJHL Grimaldi 1.26 USDP Kristo 1.14 USHL Knight 1.18 BCHL Frattin 1.43 AJHL Duncan 1.60 BCHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIOUXELEVENS Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 My point is most of those guys go mia when we really need a boost. I know juniors aren’t always an indication of future success but how else do you rate them. If your a defensive forward who kills penalties and brings energy ala Senden it’s a bonus when you score but if your brought in as a top six forward and you don’t that’s a problem. We know we need all five guys playing D but you need scoring to win games, unrealistic to expect 1-2 goals to win every game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneySIOUX Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 2 hours ago, SIOUXELEVENS said: My point is most of those guys go mia when we really need a boost. I know juniors aren’t always an indication of future success but how else do you rate them. If your a defensive forward who kills penalties and brings energy ala Senden it’s a bonus when you score but if your brought in as a top six forward and you don’t that’s a problem. We know we need all five guys playing D but you need scoring to win games, unrealistic to expect 1-2 goals to win every game. Ok, so are you just venting? We know this. I guess I'm a solutions guys and all I see at this point is just play with energy and pace. We've been successful playing this way. Last week, for whatever reason, that didn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scpa0305 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said: Ok, so are you just venting? We know this. I guess I'm a solutions guys and all I see at this point is just play with energy and pace. We've been successful playing this way. Last week, for whatever reason, that didn't happen. Completely agree. We have the horses, they just need to keep buzzing. Do we have the talent we used to? No. But we have talent. They just need to continue to gel. Coaches need to continue to hammer the recruiting trail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHeavenThereIsNoBeer Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Berry should just take on the Herb Brooks persona the rest of the year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneySIOUX Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, scpa0305 said: Completely agree. We have the horses, they just need to keep buzzing. Do we have the talent we used to? No. But we have talent. They just need to continue to gel. Coaches need to continue to hammer the recruiting trail. I like the looks of the forward groups coming in in the next couple of years. Thinking Halliday is our next big thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scpa0305 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said: I like the looks of the forward groups coming in in the next couple of years. Thinking Halliday is our next big thing. I have a good feeling about Pinto. Maybe not immediately but I think he'll be a nice player. I've seen him twice this year and he definitely passes the eye test. Fairly long kid that can skate. A lot of kids struggle in the USHL, which is the case with several of our recruits. Not Pinto though...and he's a rookie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneySIOUX Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, scpa0305 said: I have a good feeling about Pinto. Maybe not immediately but I think he'll be a nice player. I've seen him twice this year and he definitely passes the eye test. Fairly long kid that can skate. A lot of kids struggle in the USHL, which is the case with several of our recruits. Not Pinto though...and he's a rookie. Seems like he's flying up draft boards and that's always a good thing. Hopefully it continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 59 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said: Ok, so are you just venting? We know this. I guess I'm a solutions guys and all I see at this point is just play with energy and pace. We've been successful playing this way. Last week, for whatever reason, that didn't happen. I think you could say that of Saturday, but Friday was a pretty good effort, just need to put the puck in the net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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