NORTH DAKOTA @ DU - SATURDAY Gameday

[OgieOgilthorpe]

8 minutes ago, UNDMOORHEAD said:

The fact a player got injured should not turn an obvious 2 in to a 5 in any league at any level. This is why players pretend they got shot and lay on the ice all the time.

It shouldn't but it does. 

[burd]

1 minute ago, siouxforce19 said:

I basically was partially glad he got kicked out because I foolishly thought it meant we’d get less penalties as that was his 4th of the weekend... 

I had some of those thoughts as well.   From the team's perspective, the story here is that the whole mess could all have been avoided if he'd played smart.   Not even real smart:  average smart.

[UNDMOORHEAD]

3 minutes ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

It shouldn't but it does. 

I hear a lot of talk about taking diving out of the game, but I've seen nothing that makes me think they're taking it seriously. Even on the rare occasion they call diving they're taking two to the box and not just one. They need to change the way the game is called in order to change the way the game is played.

[stoneySIOUX]

19 minutes ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

With me seeing JUST the clip (even in slow motion instead of real time speed), I see it as a clear cut 2:00 interference. There is no direct head contact, no high elbows, no high speed running before hand (both gliding), no awkward landing into the boards, and no leaving the feet. No major, just a indisputable interference call. 

Now, hearing he was down and hurt after the play makes it tough for me to think the refs could've called it any other way though. Majors have to happen, and need to happen, and an unsuspecting and unprepared player getting nailed out of no where and getting hurt over it is always going to turn into a major. On top of that, whether the refs are supposed to or not, or tried to or not, I'm sure they were influenced by the crowd, Monty, and the physical play of the game leading up to that point and the style Smith had been playing with leading up to that point. With all of that said, it only adds on top of the reasoning for them to call it a 5. It sucks for UND, but I think any ncaa ref, at any rink, between any 2 teams will call a major in that situation. By no means am I defending the refs in the game as a whole, as I did not see the game. I do agree that something seems fishy about the extremely lop sided penalty calling and no goal challenge/not challenge ordeal. Especially with what happened against St. Cloud just last weekend.  

What injury was Plant recovering from before Saturday? A concussion? If not a concussion I don't see how that factors into this conversation? Playing tentative and not able to protect himself the same as normal maybe?  Either way, even if he did come back too early I doubt that was something the ref considered when he was thinking about his call during his 2-3 second window...he just saw a blatantly obvious interference where a player got injured. Stupid play by Smith. 

 

11 minutes ago, UNDMOORHEAD said:

The fact a player got injured should not turn an obvious 2 in to a 5 in any league at any level. This is why players pretend they got shot and lay on the ice all the time.

Anyone else think Borgstrom and the other DU player kneeling next to Plante while he was down contributed to the major? 

I 100% respect the fact that he was hurt and hope he's going to be ok and they are looking out for their guy, but for cryin' out loud, get the players out of there, refs. No business being there.

[OgieOgilthorpe]

1 minute ago, stoneySIOUX said:

 

Anyone else think Borgstrom and the other DU player kneeling next to Plante while he was down contributed to the major? 

I 100% respect the fact that he was hurt and hope he's going to be ok and they are looking out for their guy, but for cryin' out loud, get the players out of there, refs. No business being there.

Did they call it a major right off the bat, or was it a delayed decision? If it was later on, then all of the above contributed to their decision. Consciously and Subconsciously I'm sure. 

[sprig]

4 minutes ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

Did they call it a major right off the bat, or was it a delayed decision? If it was later on, then all of the above contributed to their decision. Consciously and Subconsciously I'm sure. 

It did not get called right away.  And either player could have avoided the contact. Neither did. 

[SiouxTupa]

As others have said (a lot) in this thread, the Smith call was an easy 2 min, but major...probably not, especially if Plant springs right up. But go back and look at the JJ elbowing call. That should've been an easy 5 with direct elbow-to-head contact. I thought major penalties were reviewable, and they probably could've taken the time to do so on these two. It wouldn't have helped our cause much, but might've taken some of the questioning away from us fans. I agree though about Smith, he could not get out of his own way this weekend. Four penalties in a little over a game of work...he might have to sit a game this week.

[UNDMOORHEAD]

Just now, SiouxTupa said:

As others have said (a lot) in this thread, the Smith call was an easy 2 min, but major...probably not, especially if Plant springs right up. But go back and look at the JJ elbowing call. That should've been an easy 5 with direct elbow-to-head contact. I thought major penalties were reviewable, and they probably could've taken the time to do so on these two. It wouldn't have helped our cause much, but might've taken some of the questioning away from us fans. I agree though about Smith, he could not get out of his own way this weekend. Four penalties in a little over a game of work...he might have to sit a game this week.

Should've been three.

[OgieOgilthorpe]

15 minutes ago, UNDMOORHEAD said:

I hear a lot of talk about taking diving out of the game, but I've seen nothing that makes me think they're taking it seriously. Even on the rare occasion they call diving they're taking two to the box and not just one. They need to change the way the game is called in order to change the way the game is played.

Unfortunately, with the increasingly strong push for player protection within all contact sports including hockey, there will continually be more serious consequential decisions made about collisions, which will result in more major calls and more suspensions which will result in the undeniable incentive for players to draw those penalties, which will result in even more flopping. Long story short, I think it's only going to get worse...

It makes me miss the rough and tough days of hockey, even just 15 years ago. Sure the cleaner, faster and smoother hockey is awesome to watch, but I think the flopping trumps it all in the other direction. This isn't basketball, this isn't soccer, but we're getting closer to that mentality everyday. 

[UNDMOORHEAD]

1 minute ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

Unfortunately, with the increasingly strong push for player protection within all contact sports including hockey, there will continually be more serious consequential decisions made about collisions, which will result in more major calls and more suspensions which will result in the undeniable incentive for players to draw those penalties, which will result in even more flopping. Long story short, I think it's only going to get worse...

It makes me miss the rough and tough days of hockey, even just 15 years ago. Sure the cleaner, faster and smoother hockey is awesome to watch, I think the flopping trumps it all in a negative way. This isn't basketball, this isn't soccer, but we're getting closer to that mentality everyday. 

If it continues to get worse it may make hockey hard to watch.

[OgieOgilthorpe]

6 minutes ago, sprig said:

It did not get called right away.  And either player could have avoided the contact. Neither did. 

Smith could've but it didn't look like Plant could've. Who would be expecting a trailing player to come straight at him when he doesn't even have the puck? 

[OgieOgilthorpe]

3 minutes ago, UNDMOORHEAD said:

If it continues to get worse it may make hockey hard to watch.

It already has with teams like the Goofs taking full advantage of it. 

[UNDMOORHEAD]

3 minutes ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

It already has with teams like the Goofs taking full advantage of it. 

If it goes from some doing it to everyone doing it that's the nightmare.

[petey23]

14 minutes ago, UNDMOORHEAD said:

Should've been three.

Yeah the dive on Friday night on his second penalty was pretty ridiculous.

[AJS]

46 minutes ago, UNDMOORHEAD said:

The fact a player got injured should not turn an obvious 2 in to a 5 in any league at any level. This is why players pretend they got shot and lay on the ice all the time.

This is my thought as well, it's a shame Plant got hurt, but that's not a 5 minute major.

[stoneySIOUX]

33 minutes ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

Did they call it a major right off the bat, or was it a delayed decision? If it was later on, then all of the above contributed to their decision. Consciously and Subconsciously I'm sure. 

It was ABSOLUTELY delayed. 

[siouxforce19]

2 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

It was ABSOLUTELY delayed. 

Yup. Then all the DU fans cheered when he was kicked out even though 90% of them didn’t see what happened. 

[OgieOgilthorpe]

1 minute ago, AJS said:

This is my thought as well, it's a shame Plant got hurt, but that's not a 5 minute major.

Yet if the tables turned and that was a UND player laying on the ice with a concussion and their player hadn't gotten a major this board would all be saying the opposite. 

I agree, the play itself was not a major. But him staying down hurt, Smith's reputation within the series, the angry home crowd + coach, and the fact that it was and outright cheap shot hit in a non-hitting situation led it to be a major. Every time 

[UNDMOORHEAD]

1 minute ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

Yet if the tables turned and that was a UND player laying on the ice with a concussion and their player hadn't gotten a major this board would all be saying the opposite. 

I agree, the play itself was not a major. But him staying down hurt, Smith's reputation within the series, the angry home crowd + coach, and the fact that it was and outright cheap shot hit in a non-hitting situation led it to be a major. Every time 

If Smith's hit was a major, Paukovich should've got a lifetime ban.

[Oxbow6]

Watched both games on ALT while hunting in western ND.........solid play by UND, DU has terrific skill, NCHC officiating is on par with WWE refs and Monty is an embarrassing pathetic fool.

[stoneySIOUX]

3 minutes ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

Yet if the tables turned and that was a UND player laying on the ice with a concussion and their player hadn't gotten a major this board would all be saying the opposite. 

I agree, the play itself was not a major. But him staying down hurt, Smith's reputation within the series, the angry home crowd + coach, and the fact that it was and outright cheap shot hit in a non-hitting situation led it to be a major. Every time 

I don't agree with this. In the moment, maybe. But seeing the replay, that is a terrible, terrible call. 

[PCM]

I haven’t seen a good replay of UND’s disallowed goal, but in the one I saw, it appeared to be a bang-bang scoring play. Adams’ pass and Kawaguchi’s shot occurred so quickly that it appeared impossible for Jaillet to have any chance of making a save. If Adams’ stick contact with Jaillet was so egregious, why didn’t either referee call it? Why didn’t Jaillet immediately react to the alleged interference? I suspect it’s because what happened falls within the realm of incidental contact, which is covered in the NCAA ice hockey rules.

Quote

73.1 Interference on the Goalkeeper

Officials are encouraged to use their discretion in determining the effect of an attacking player making contact with a goaltender or with goaltender equipment. Referees are instructed to give more significant consideration to the degree and nature of the contact than to the exact location of the goalkeeper at the time of the contact. If, in the opinion of the official, the incidental contact had no effect on the goaltender’s ability to defend the goal, a goal may be allowed in such situations.

From the viewpoint of the two referees who the NCAA says should make the determination about whether contact with the goalie was significant enough to warrant a penalty, neither of them made the call because neither of them saw a penalty—even after conferring with the linesman who claimed to have seen such interference. However, the on-ice judgement of the two referees was overruled by an irate coach relying on the advice of a backup goalie sitting on the DU bench.

Plus, even if a linesman actually witnessed goalie interference, the officials didn’t do what they’re supposed to do. The NCAA rules don’t give linesmen any authority to wave off goals. The correct procedure would have been for a referee to disallow the goal based on a penalty for goalie interference—if the ref believed the linesman’s version of events. If it’s a penalty, call the penalty and say goalie interference was the reason for the goal being disallowed. Not that this outcome would have been more palatable to UND fans, but at least it would have made sense. Allowing a linesman to wave off a goal for an uncalled penalty not only makes no sense, but is also contrary to the NCAA rules.

However, don’t expect any type of coherent explanation from the league because like the old WCHA, when the league screws up, it never admits it. You just have to accept whatever sort of nonsensical explanation the league provides and leave it at that.

Edited November 20, 2017 by PCM
Because I suck at proofreading.

[UNDColorado]

46 minutes ago, UNDMOORHEAD said:

I hear a lot of talk about taking diving out of the game, but I've seen nothing that makes me think they're taking it seriously. Even on the rare occasion they call diving they're taking two to the box and not just one. They need to change the way the game is called in order to change the way the game is played.

Pains me to say this but maybe it is time for our guys to start diving. I have always been proud of the fact that you rarely see our guys doing this but after Saturday watching their guy dive and act like his cage has nerves and feelings I have changed my tune.

[AJS]

1 minute ago, OgieOgilthorpe said:

Yet if the tables turned and that was a UND player laying on the ice with a concussion and their player hadn't gotten a major this board would all be saying the opposite. 

I agree, the play itself was not a major. But him staying down hurt, Smith's reputation within the series, the angry home crowd + coach, and the fact that it was and outright cheap shot hit in a non-hitting situation led it to be a major. Every time 

This is well said, I can get on the same page that although I don't think it was a major, I can see why it was called a major. My overall problem with Saturday wasn't any one call in particular, but them collectively. Probably will never see another game called like it.

[stoneySIOUX]

5 minutes ago, UNDColorado said:

Pains me to say this but maybe it is time for our guys to start diving. I have always been proud of the fact that you rarely see our guys doing this but after Saturday watching their guy dive and act like his cage has nerves and feelings I have changed my tune.

I don't care what the situation is and I don't care of the benefit... diving isn't UND hockey and it never will be.