Game Day @ Da Birds 7pm

[green_sioux]

Individually, we can expect, or wish or demand that our football team wins the Natty every year.   It’s simple, easy and free to have wishes, demands and expectations.  But, that doesn’t affect the reality in any way.  Unless, you’re one of those guys cutting a big check to UND every year.   It is what it is. None of our expectations can affect the reality.

I’ve never been a real big Bubba fan, but one thing he got across to UND when hired was the need to pay a living wage to his staff.   I’ve been told the amount of dollars for Bubba and staff went up by a factor of close to 2.5 times over the last Mussman staff.  He would only take the job if money was freed up to pay for some experience on the staff.  UND went extremely cheap in the initial FCS years.  Bubba pushed for being able to hire –and pay- a more veteran staff.  Half of the staff in the Mussman years were kids.   How many first year coordinators did he have in his run?   Bubba pushed for being able to hire –and pay- a more veteran staff.  Young guys on those Mussman staffs kept looking for better coaching jobs based largely on what UND was paying. 

So here we are.  Bubba’s and his staff have been relatively stable during his run.  The staff reflects his personality and coaching philosophy.   I don’t think Bubba personally does anything to shake up his staff after the season.   Maybe the AD will want to, or maybe someone will leave on their own,  but I don’t think Bubba will initiate it.  He’s a good rah-rah guy and I personally like him.  But, I think he’s an average recruiter\evaluator and someone who doesn't like to make in-game adjustments.   He’s a 1990’s style DII coach applying his style in an FCS world. 

I don’t know what the answer is.  I’m sure Bubba is safe and with Faison exiting, and I don’t expect any changes for next year.   I think Mussman got better FCS talent than Bubba in most of his classes, but the Mussman staff as a whole was learning how to operate in their new roles.   First time head coach, first time coordinators, etc.  They got outcoached in many games in the Mussman years.   (and for you Muss haters out there, no I'm not Mrs. Mussman)

This year, we are getting outplayed physically and schematically.  And, Bubba’s coaching style is partially responsible for letting it happen.   All I know is I will be there Saturday, like I have been for 50 seasons.   And, hope I am back for next year.  I made it to Florence, AL twice, I hope to get to the UND Natty game in Frisco before I tip over.

[90siouxfan]

2 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

That 30% you talk about will jump on whichever bandwagon is on top.  Late 80's was NDSU, late 90's, early 00's it was UND.  It will be UND again soon.

You have stated this several times, is it just wishful thinking or do you have some evidence that football is cyclical in an intrastate rivalry?

[Midwestern Hawk]

11 minutes ago, 90siouxfan said:

You have stated this several times, is it just wishful thinking or do you have some evidence that football is cyclical in an intrastate rivalry?

There is evidence that the UND-NDSU rivalry is very cyclical in nature.  Most rivalries are somewhat cyclical based on the coaches and programs involved or they would not be rivalries.    UND was on top when NDSU decided to jump to D1 and Roger Thomas and the university made a strategic mistake not joining them for a few years.  About the time UND became D1, NDSU was getting a huge roll and UND is still trying to catch up.  I think NDSU program is faltering a bit and many thought UND was ascending, that is one of the most frustrating things about this season for so many of us.

[Mama Sue]

17 hours ago, gundy1124 said:

Brown couldn't cover my grandma in a phone booth.  Anyone was an upgrade from him.

Well that's a new one...great visual in my mind!

[Irish]

41 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

There is evidence that the UND-NDSU rivalry is very cyclical in nature.  Most rivalries are somewhat cyclical based on the coaches and programs involved or they would not be rivalries.    UND was on top when NDSU decided to jump to D1 and Roger Thomas and the university made a strategic mistake not joining them for a few years.  About the time UND became D1, NDSU was getting a huge roll and UND is still trying to catch up.  I think NDSU program is faltering a bit and many thought UND was ascending, that is one of the most frustrating things about this season for so many of us.

Agree with all of this - UND football is also a victim of poor decisions by the Athletic Department - beginning with Roger Thomas, but compounded by several others who didn't value producing winners and a series of weak Presidents.  Time to get this train on track.  I don't think that people in Grand Forks notice that much, but it is disheartening for small town residents to see almost the entire town suit up in yellow and following the Bison.  

 

[geaux_sioux]

1 hour ago, green_sioux said:

Individually, we can expect, or wish or demand that our football team wins the Natty every year.   It’s simple, easy and free to have wishes, demands and expectations.  But, that doesn’t affect the reality in any way.  Unless, you’re one of those guys cutting a big check to UND every year.   It is what it is. None of our expectations can affect the reality.

I’ve never been a real big Bubba fan, but one thing he got across to UND when hired was the need to pay a living wage to his staff.   I’ve been told the amount of dollars for Bubba and staff went up by a factor of close to 2.5 times over the last Mussman staff.  He would only take the job if money was freed up to pay for some experience on the staff.  UND went extremely cheap in the initial FCS years.  Bubba pushed for being able to hire –and pay- a more veteran staff.  Half of the staff in the Mussman years were kids.   How many first year coordinators did he have in his run?   Bubba pushed for being able to hire –and pay- a more veteran staff.  Young guys on those Mussman staffs kept looking for better coaching jobs based largely on what UND was paying. 

So here we are.  Bubba’s and his staff have been relatively stable during his run.  The staff reflects his personality and coaching philosophy.   I don’t think Bubba personally does anything to shake up his staff after the season.   Maybe the AD will want to, or maybe someone will leave on their own,  but I don’t think Bubba will initiate it.  He’s a good rah-rah guy and I personally like him.  But, I think he’s an average recruiter\evaluator and someone who doesn't like to make in-game adjustments.   He’s a 1990’s style DII coach applying his style in an FCS world. 

I don’t know what the answer is.  I’m sure Bubba is safe and with Faison exiting, and I don’t expect any changes for next year.   I think Mussman got better FCS talent than Bubba in most of his classes, but the Mussman staff as a whole was learning how to operate in their new roles.   First time head coach, first time coordinators, etc.  They got outcoached in many games in the Mussman years.   (and for you Muss haters out there, no I'm not Mrs. Mussman)

This year, we are getting outplayed physically and schematically.  And, Bubba’s coaching style is partially responsible for letting it happen.   All I know is I will be there Saturday, like I have been for 50 seasons.   And, hope I am back for next year.  I made it to Florence, AL twice, I hope to get to the UND Natty game in Frisco before I tip over.

Pretty spot on. I will add, though, that Mussman and co could not find a decent corner to save their lives and had a serious culture/buy-in problem. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 hours ago, UND-1 said:

Football.  We are not talking about the colleges.  We are talking about football.  Their program has a much, much larger budget than UND's.  Their locker room and coaches offices blow UND's out of the water.

Unfortunately, this is true. Another reason for a top-notch state-of-the-art (not reduced budget form) phase 2 to get completed for UND as soon as possible. 

[UND-1]

6 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Unfortunately, this is true. Another reason for a top-notch state-of-the-art (not reduced budget form) phase 2 to get completed for UND as soon as possible. 

The hockey team renovates their locker room every what, 5-7 years?  Their locker room at the OLD Ralph would be an upgrade for the football team.  

[90siouxfan]

1 hour ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

There is evidence that the UND-NDSU rivalry is very cyclical in nature.  Most rivalries are somewhat cyclical based on the coaches and programs involved or they would not be rivalries.    UND was on top when NDSU decided to jump to D1 and Roger Thomas and the university made a strategic mistake not joining them for a few years.  About the time UND became D1, NDSU was getting a huge roll and UND is still trying to catch up.  I think NDSU program is faltering a bit and many thought UND was ascending, that is one of the most frustrating things about this season for so many of us.

I agree that rivalries are at their most potent when it is a see saw battle for dominance but surely there are plenty examples of rivalries in which one party is left in the dust?  I hate to be a debby downer but MooU may created a lead that will make your cycle out of wack.

[fightingsioux4life]

3 hours ago, green_sioux said:

Individually, we can expect, or wish or demand that our football team wins the Natty every year.   It’s simple, easy and free to have wishes, demands and expectations.  But, that doesn’t affect the reality in any way.  Unless, you’re one of those guys cutting a big check to UND every year.   It is what it is. None of our expectations can affect the reality.

No one is talking about winning a Natty every year. People are talking about changing the narrative in the region so that we aren't "that other school in North Dakota". And I cut a check to UND every year, so I will "expect, wish or demand" excellence from our teams. Got that? #iwillnotputupandshutup

PS: I am not arguing for Regime Change. If next year is like this year without the injuries, then I might change my mind.

[shep]

10 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Congrats, you're an outlier. Doesn't change the fact the masses are not conditioned to winning. If you don't like the truth, don't read it. A lot of ignorance around here in order to handle this disaster of a season. Deal with it and don't resort to pure banter. The folks on this board are the exception, not the norm; don't forget that. It's the GF community and UND alumni base that needs to rally around UND football more.

No one is ignorant of the injuries which is the reason for the disaster of a season.

You're displeased with this season. SO ARE THE REST OF US!! You're standards are not higher just because we have acknowledged that 9 injuries to starters on D sucks but also has an impact on the team Defense. To say otherwise, doesn't mean a person has higher standards; it just means the person isn't credibly assessing the situation.

I bet EVERYONE on here would be absolutely livid if Harris, Reyes, Rodgers and others were playing every game and the team was still giving up 40 points a game. 

This is NOT pure banter. This is reality. 

[UND Fan]

5 hours ago, UND-1 said:

Football.  We are not talking about the colleges.  We are talking about football.  Their program has a much, much larger budget than UND's.  Their locker room and coaches offices blow UND's out of the water.

SU's Team Makers' (4,100+ members) annual contribution to SU Athletics exceeded $5M this year (an increase of over $1M more than the previous year).  For the first time, this contribution now covers ALL of SU's M & F scholarship costs.    

UND's Champion's Club (2,600+ members) produced somewhere north of $3M this year.  

While I don't know the numbers but would guess that the $ received from the REA is offset by the ongoing sellout of all SU FB games and much higher men's BB attendance.  I also don't know the specifics but I am sure the revenue generated from media and advertising is significantly higher at SU.

Bottom line - SU has much more $ available on an annual basis for salaries, facilities, recruiting, etc.  

I sincerely hope that everyone who truly cares about UND athletics is writing as large of a check as they can afford to assist the program.  If you are doing so - thanks!  If you aren't, please don't continually question why UND doesn't offer higher salaries, bring in more name competition in FB & BB, etc.  It all takes $. 

On a related note, I have stated to UND leadership that I believe a 20% increase in contributions will happen immediately with a new energetic and personable AD. 

[fightingsioux4life]

21 minutes ago, UND Fan said:

Bottom line - SU has much more $ available on an annual basis for salaries, facilities, recruiting, etc.  

Then why did it take so long to raise enough money to renovate the BSA? And outside of FB, none of their other programs have accomplished much in recent years.

[geaux_sioux]

8 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Then why did it take so long to raise enough money to renovate the BSA? And outside of FB, none of their other programs have accomplished much in recent years.

Outside of track and softball

[UNDBIZ]

Perhaps UND champions club should join ndsu teammakers in screwing over legitimate local nonprofit organizations by taking over charitable gambling in the area. 

[UND Fan]

12 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Then why did it take so long to raise enough money to renovate the BSA? And outside of FB, none of their other programs have accomplished much in recent years.

You will need to ask the folks at SU that question.  My comments were about annual budgets.

[Hambone]

21 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Perhaps UND champions club should join ndsu teammakers in screwing over legitimate local nonprofit organizations by taking over charitable gambling in the area. 

Umm, what?  Am I reading this that NDSU Teammakers gets money from charitable gambling?

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

4 minutes ago, Hambone said:

Umm, what?  Am I reading this that NDSU Teammakers gets money from charitable gambling?

If I remember the UND Alumni association had a ND gaming license, don't know if they still do. What about the raffle money (50/50) at the hockey games, that's gaming, isn't it?

[UND-FB-FAN]

3 hours ago, shep said:

No one is ignorant of the injuries which is the reason for the disaster of a season.

You're displeased with this season. SO ARE THE REST OF US!! You're standards are not higher just because we have acknowledged that 9 injuries to starters on D sucks but also has an impact on the team Defense. To say otherwise, doesn't mean a person has higher standards; it just means the person isn't credibly assessing the situation.

I bet EVERYONE on here would be absolutely livid if Harris, Reyes, Rodgers and others were playing every game and the team was still giving up 40 points a game. 

This is NOT pure banter. This is reality. 

So what's the plan now with Reyes' eligibility expired and Harris' post-injury ability in question? Blame the injuries for any of 2018's potential flaws? You can only attribute so much of this to injuries. I'm sorry you feel it is that simple, but then again, some find solace in thinking that way. UND's senior QB and two all-conference RBs have been healthy all season. Studsrud's receiving corps returned intact from 2016 and those guys have played in most all the games. In the preseason, UND's offensive line was looked at as bening more experienced relative to 2016. Heck, the defensive line (which was supposed to be the strength of the defense) has been deep and remained healthy all season.

All in all, I think this team has bought into this injury explanation as much as some gullible fans have, and as such, mailed it in a few games ago. The second half of this season has been embarrassing and it goes beyond injuries. It extends to the young guys (who are available) putting in the work and the coaches guiding them along the way to improve game by game. I haven't seen much improvement; in fact, its been quite the roller coaster ride in that regard. This season has been horrid, but that is only partially due to injuries. The injury situation has revealed several other deficiencies within this program. To think everything will be just fine in 2018 while going about the same flawed tactics is insanity. I think we've witnessed how UND and Bubba handle success, and its not good. There needs to adjustments to the way everyone in the program goes about their business (and the health of the players is only part of that). 

[UNDBIZ]

8 hours ago, Hambone said:

Umm, what?  Am I reading this that NDSU Teammakers gets money from charitable gambling?

Pretty sure I've made "donations" to teammakers in the past via the blackjack table. 

[shep]

8 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

So what's the plan now with Reyes' eligibility expired and Harris' post-injury ability in question? Blame the injuries for any of 2018's potential flaws? You can only attribute so much of this to injuries. I'm sorry you feel it is that simple, but then again, some find solace in thinking that way. UND's senior QB and two all-conference RBs have been healthy all season. Studsrud's receiving corps returned intact from 2016 and those guys have played in most all the games. In the preseason, UND's offensive line was looked at as bening more experienced relative to 2016. Heck, the defensive line (which was supposed to be the strength of the defense) has been deep and remained healthy all season.

All in all, I think this team has bought into this injury explanation as much as some gullible fans have, and as such, mailed it in a few games ago. The second half of this season has been embarrassing and it goes beyond injuries. It extends to the young guys (who are available) putting in the work and the coaches guiding them along the way to improve game by game. I haven't seen much improvement; in fact, its been quite the roller coaster ride in that regard. This season has been horrid, but that is only partially due to injuries. The injury situation has revealed several other deficiencies within this program. To think everything will be just fine in 2018 while going about the same flawed tactics is insanity. I think we've witnessed how UND and Bubba handle success, and its not good. There needs to adjustments to the way everyone in the program goes about their business (and the health of the players is only part of that). 

You've made up your mind and no one will change it and that's fine-you're free to believe and feel what you want.

You said you don't want regime change but it seems you really do. Again, that's fine to have that opinion.

Please stop telling the rest of us we're nuts for NOT wanting regime change. You say the injury situation has revealed other deficiencies in the program. and my response is the same: We are playing guys who were NOT expected to play this year. We are at times playing guys out of position (Nevermann is still playing LB). You'll say the recruiting sucks because we didn't have ready backups. I just don't see how a coach can plan to have so many guys in such keys spots.

Again, IF next year, with guys healthy, ends like this year, you will have MANY on this board joining you for a regime change.

[jdub27]

11 hours ago, Hambone said:

Umm, what?  Am I reading this that NDSU Teammakers gets money from charitable gambling?

Yes. They "sponsor" 5-6 sites in Fargo. Gross proceeds (after prizes and taxes, before expenses) were about $1.1 million last fiscal year.

 

12 hours ago, UND Fan said:

SU's Team Makers' (4,100+ members) annual contribution to SU Athletics exceeded $5M this year (an increase of over $1M more than the previous year).  For the first time, this contribution now covers ALL of SU's M & F scholarship costs.    

UND's Champion's Club (2,600+ members) produced somewhere north of $3M this year.  

Their actual donations from members were between $4.3 and $4.7 million, depending on which release you read. They had another $300K that was "trade" and another $700K that was "other revenues", which I'm guessing is mostly related to the the gaming numbers. I'm also not sure how they counted their "one-time" donation to cover half of FCOA for the first 3 years. The USA Today number doesn't match anything they've put out, but NDSU also don't make the report used to generate those number public. There number was also inflated a little bit this past year because of additional donations to get basketball tickets in their new arena. I expect the funds they got from that to drop this year for various reasons.

The Champion's Club will see a natural increase of at least $350-400K just from the adjustment on donation levels, which hadn't been changed in the last 5+ years.

Obviously NDSU has passed UND in this regard, but with the demand they currently have for football tickets, it isn't a surprise.

[UND-FB-FAN]

5 hours ago, shep said:

You've made up your mind and no one will change it and that's fine-you're free to believe and feel what you want.

You said you don't want regime change but it seems you really do. Again, that's fine to have that opinion.

Please stop telling the rest of us we're nuts for NOT wanting regime change. You say the injury situation has revealed other deficiencies in the program. and my response is the same: We are playing guys who were NOT expected to play this year. We are at times playing guys out of position (Nevermann is still playing LB). You'll say the recruiting sucks because we didn't have ready backups. I just don't see how a coach can plan to have so many guys in such keys spots.

Again, IF next year, with guys healthy, ends like this year, you will have MANY on this board joining you for a regime change.

... but, but, but ... one more year, please ...

Got to love that attitude. 

I'll be taking a dirt nap by the time UND football makes it back to the playoffs. I'm just asking for raised expectations and for people to put their money where their mouth (typing) is. I donate in order to see a proud winning program belonging to my alma mater, not a hesitant overly-modest roller coaster of a program. Let's hope this year is just a fluke. 

This season is over and done with after Saturday, I agree with that much. What should happen to rectify the situation and the 2018 expectations is a different situation and is interesting. Better coaches and players is an obvious answer but I think it's also legitimate. Bubba shouldn't and won't go anywhere. Changes can be made beneath him. 

People don't want to hear but it is what it is. Let's see how Saturday goes and then on to productive, proactive changes for 2018.

[shep]

23 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

... but, but, but ... one more year, please ...

Got to love that attitude. 

I'll be taking a dirt nap by the time UND football makes it back to the playoffs. I'm just asking for raised expectations and for people to put their money where their mouth (typing) is. I donate in order to see a proud winning program belonging to my alma mater, not a hesitant overly-modest roller coaster of a program. Let's hope this year is just a fluke. 

This season is over and done with after Saturday, I agree with that much. What should happen to rectify the situation and the 2018 expectations is a different situation and is interesting. Better coaches and players is an obvious answer but I think it's also legitimate. Bubba shouldn't and won't go anywhere. Changes can be made beneath him. 

People don't want to hear but it is what it is. Let's see how Saturday goes and then on to productive, proactive changes for 2018.

Your last points are already being presented and discussed at the Fire RUDY post. I think most agree with that, though I've frequently said that Rudy is doing what Bubba wants and you have to look to him as you look at Rudy. If that's all you seek we are in agreement.

I don't know how old you are or if you have some terminal condition, but I hope, for your sake and the team's, you get to see a playoff game.

[lets eat]

39 minutes ago, shep said:

Your last points are already being presented and discussed at the Fire RUDY post. I think most agree with that, though I've frequently said that Rudy is doing what Bubba wants and you have to look to him as you look at Rudy. If that's all you seek we are in agreement.

I don't know how old you are or if you have some terminal condition, but I hope, for your sake and the team's, you get to see a playoff game.

I'm actually surprised UND hasn't offered UND-FB-FAN the OC and AD job.  He sure seems to know what it takes to do both jobs.  He's quite the player evaluator, recruiting guru, player development expert' and much more.  He's been telling us for years how the Alerus center should be run and by golly if we would just implement his ideas in the athletic department everything would be great!!!! .   Not only that, but apparently he has coaching and medical backround.  I'm a former player with no children in the game but it pains me to see guys like him pretend to believe they are relevant or have a clue. Opinions are great but when someone's child is being belittled by a posser, that's where I draw the line.  (Yes, I understand they are under scholarship, doesn't matter).  Pick on the coaches all you want but keep your distance saying something around their wives or mothers