Standing Rock Protests

[SiouxVolley]

5 minutes ago, Hockeygirl97 said:

Couple things. . . they're moving their water intake 70 miles south (because of low water, I believe) in the next month or two.  They've killed at least 30 cows and last week, shot a horse and mutilated it to retrieve the bullet.  They've dumped sugar in tractor tanks, and spray painted the pick up of a farmer just driving down his long drive way to his house.  The farmers and ranchers down there are not happy.  On a funnier note, in the Bismarck Tribune yesterday, the protesters asked the city of Cannonball if they could move their camp from the river bottoms to a spot north of town and the leaders told them that it would take at least 2 years to sort out all the paperwork to give them permission.  I don't think the Indians that live down there want these freaks around any more.   

P.S.  Only 9% of the protesters arrested before yesterday are from North Dakota. 

 

The new water intake is at Mobridge, which has some oil trains that could be in an accident crossing Lake Oahe.  How much sense does it make to kill a much safer pipeline?

[Siouxperfan7]

40 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

The new water intake is at Mobridge, which has some oil trains that could be in an accident crossing Lake Oahe.  How much sense does it make to kill a much safer pipeline?

Understanding reason and logic is not a trait that these protesters rioters generally have.  

[jdub27]

11 hours ago, dlsiouxfan said:

So Dalrymple is going to use military and police forces to attack, beat and arrest unarmed women and children to protect his personal investment in this pipeline.  I guess we can officially start referring to the state of ND as a third world petro state.     

 

Yeah, totally unarmed and non-violent people who were blocking public roadways and trespassing on private property:

Quote

At sun up Friday, the confrontation appeared to have subdued after a day in which officers faced a barrage of homemade explosives, rocks, logs, bottles and debris thrown by protesters.

One of two military trucks set on fire continued to smolder Friday morning next to Backwater Bridge, located between two camps set up by protesters

Law enforcement reported two instances of shots being fired, including one in which a woman who was being arrested along the front line on Highway 1806 pulled a .38-caliber revolver and fired three shots near officers before being taken into custody.

Thursday a massive fire fueled by logs and tires kept more than 75 officers at bay for hours. Protesters allowed firefighters to extinguish the blaze, but at 4:40 p.m. they set fire to logs and hay around a pickup truck parked on the bridge and began to disperse.

 

[Hockeygirl97]

3 hours ago, TBR said:

I recently attended an event on the topic of sustainability. My assumption was that there would be presentations and discussions about limiting wastefulness and promoting renewable forms of energy, but most of the speakers pivoted towards Standing Rock. At one point it was mentioned that the Tribal members had plenty of winter clothes, blankets and food, but what they really needed were gas cards. I had to wonder to how many people in attendance the irony of this statement was lost.

I actually understand how the Standing Rock population feels like they are being dumped on, but it seems to me that their angst should be directed at their leadership for opting out of the public comment phase of the permitting process. Had their leadership expended as much effort at opposing the permit as the local population is now expending on protesting, the permits probably would not have been approved.

Also, just a note. . . you really have to be aware of what's going on w/ the latest environmentalist "buzz word".  Any research you do on the subject will inevitably lead you to population control.  It's not just humans "polluters" that are bad, it's all humans in general and there needs to be a limit on how many are on the earth.  But no one ever really reads up on this stuff.  That's why you'll see more and more big companies and corporations changing their tiny print tag-lines from "a green company" to a "sustainable company", not because they have any idea what it means, they just want to be the right kind of "pc cool".   

[Oxbow6]

Would be nice to at least see some "Fighting Sioux" apparel/gear on some of these protesters?

 

Oh wait................................................never mind.  

[Oxbow6]

One of the ladies I work with just said her father can't get to his farm due to the road blocks and a farm neighbor's dog was shot dead yesterday by someone promoting peace and prayer.

#waterislifebutwewillshootdogs

[darell1976]

52 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

One of the ladies I work with just said her father can't get to his farm due to the road blocks and a farm neighbor's dog was shot dead yesterday by someone promoting peace and prayer.

#waterislifebutwewillshootdogs

More and more people are losing sympathy with the protesters even though social media are trying to spin the truth. A protest without violence is a protest, a protest with violence is a riot. 

[Cratter]

3 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

More and more people are losing sympathy with the protesters even though social media are trying to spin the truth. A protest without violence is a protest, a protest with violence is a riot. 

Social media, Twitter, means the world gets its "news" from just 140 characters...

[fight on sioux]

20 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

Sorry Rev. Jesse Jackson...............

Hope you're as offended by all the illegal BS that's taking place day after day after day by all these folks who finally decided to stand up for a "cause".

By degrading a certain race with a negative stereotype doesn't do any good. That's just straight up wrong and it isn't needed. If you wanna make racist comments do it elsewhere please.

[darell1976]

5 minutes ago, fight on sioux said:

By degrading a certain race with a negative stereotype doesn't do any good. That's just straight up wrong and it isn't needed. If you wanna make racist comments do it elsewhere please.

What racist comment?

[Oxbow6]

34 minutes ago, fight on sioux said:

By degrading a certain race with a negative stereotype doesn't do any good. That's just straight up wrong and it isn't needed. If you wanna make racist comments do it elsewhere please.

Ahhhhh......the "racist" card.  Always love that one. I think they are doing just fine on their own degrading themselves behind this "protest" charade. They should start by cleaning up their own societal ills.....and there are plenty but that would require a mirror and some accountability. Never has happened and never will so they'll latch onto a "noble cause" to deflect from their real issues.  It's a generational thing.  Yet pointing a gun and shooting dogs, livestock, or at someone else and blatantly breaking the law obviously aren't issues...and isn't "straight up wrong".

 

[The Sicatoka]

Go to Google. Put in "mandan nd to cannonball nd". Click on the map. 

Note the orange sections (plural) on Highway 1806 just north of Cannon Ball. That's not road construction. That's a Class C felony in progress.

[UNDBIZ]

33 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

What racist comment?

This one

On 10/26/2016 at 3:12 PM, Oxbow6 said:

........and this is over "clean water". 

Yet that isn't even the main drink of choice with most of those folks protesting............................... 

 

[fight on sioux]

27 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Ahhhhh......the "racist" card.  Always love that one. I think they are doing just fine on their own degrading themselves behind this "protest" charade. They should start by cleaning up their own societal ills.....and there are plenty but that would require a mirror and some accountability. Never has happened and never will so they'll latch onto a "noble cause" to deflect from their real issues.  It's a generational thing.  Yet pointing a gun and shooting dogs, livestock, or at someone else and blatantly breaking the law obviously aren't issues...and isn't "straight up wrong".

 

There is no "race card" being played. If you are that ignorant to the reasons and causes for the social problems Native Americans face today, and find it right to degrade them by labeling all of them alcoholics, then that is your problem. I just have more respect for the struggles Native Americans face today and have faced in the past to make snide remarks like this. I'm not saying all of them are doing the right thing during this protest, but I don't make generalized comments that put a negative label on an entire culture. That's all I have to say about this... 

 

[Cratter]

8 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

It could leak into Lake Oahe over time, but oil floats so it would be visible.  Many water systems run their water through charcoal or activated carbon, which removes organics.  Right now the falling and decaying leaves in the river are a problem.  Pipelines are instrumented to show significant leaks.

There are major natural oil leaks into some oceans and seas where oil sludge is common at the surface.  Environmentalists tried to blame oil tankers and Big ships, but there have been studies have shown oil has been seeping for eons in some spots.  The lighter stuff evaporates and much of it is eaten by biolife like bacteria and amoebas eventually, which are natural.  The earth is really good at cleaning itself up.  Oil is natural BTW.

Article on natural oil seepage:  http://www.whoi.edu/oil/natural-oil-seeps

I guess it was more of a science question. What's the water content of the soil 90 feet below a river? How much water needs to be mixed with soil and oil before its able to float upwards? 

We know more about planets light years away than we do about a few miles below our feet.

[UNDBIZ]

Let's get back on track here. This thread is for discussion of the protest and pipeline. 

[Esoteric]

To understand these protests, one area to focus on is understanding the history of what has been happening over water rights and movement of the tribes.  Under Lake Sakakawea you will find lost tribal land and lost tribal communities.  You will also find broken promises from the Pick-Sloan Missouri Basin Program.  It is also important to understand the decisions that were made to the benefit of farmers who now are being inconvenienced.  There is still angry about how inconvenient it was for the tribes to be moved.  Those moves led to a breakdown in their income, their community support structure, and other things that helped destroy their family life.  I would encourage anyone who is truly wanting to have a better understanding of this protest to read or at least review the book, “Coyote Warrior: One Man, Three Tribes, and the Trial That Forged a Nation” by Paul Van Develder.

[SiouxVolley]

39 minutes ago, Cratter said:

I guess it was more of a science question. What's the water content of the soil 90 feet below a river? How much water needs to be mixed with soil and oil before its able to float upwards? 

We know more about planets light years away than we do about a few miles below our feet.

There is groundwater below the lake, so the oil would rise gradually.  The rock or soil might partially get saturated with oil first before oIl would be released into the Lake.  Read the pipeline under the lake would have double containment (pipe within a pipe with anticorrosion coating applied to both) so the chances of a leak are much smaller than in other locales.   The depth and pumping pressure of the pipe and pressure of the rock/soil matrix would also impact how fast any oil could escape.  It's complicated to model, compared to pipelines near the surface.  There is also microbes that would munch on oil before it even gets to open water.  All these factors would slow another oil ingress into the lake.

[SiouxVolley]

18 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

To understand these protests, one area to focus on is understanding the history of what has been happening over water rights and movement of the tribes.  Under Lake Sakakawea you will find lost tribal land and lost tribal communities.  You will also find broken promises from the Pick-Sloan Missouri Basin Program.  It is also important to understand the decisions that were made to the benefit of farmers who now are being inconvenienced.  There is still angry about how inconvenient it was for the tribes to be moved.  Those moves led to a breakdown in their income, their community support structure, and other things that helped destroy their family life.  I would encourage anyone who is truly wanting to have a better understanding of this protest to read or at least review the book, “Coyote Warrior: One Man, Three Tribes, and the Trial That Forged a Nation” by Paul Van Develder.

The Fort Berthold people had agricultural roots and lost much of their valued land, but the Sioux people are more inclined to ranching and the open plains.  The Mandan, Arikawa and Hidatsa cultures were much more adversely affected by Pick-Sloan than the Siouxan culture.  The Sioux's legitimate gripe is the Black Hills, which this has nothing to do with this.  Siouxan people seem to detest growing crops as beneath them.  Never seen a garden on a Sioux reservation.

Edited October 28, 2016 by SiouxVolley

[Oxbow6]

On 10/26/2016 at 3:12 PM, Oxbow6 said:

........and this is over "clean water". 

Yet that isn't even the main drink of choice with most of those folks protesting............................... 

 

1 hour ago, fight on sioux said:

There is no "race card" being played. If you are that ignorant to the reasons and causes for the social problems Native Americans face today, and find it right to degrade them by labeling all of them alcoholics, then that is your problem. I just have more respect for the struggles Native Americans face today and have faced in the past to make snide remarks like this. I'm not saying all of them are doing the right thing during this protest, but I don't make generalized comments that put a negative label on an entire culture. That's all I have to say about this... 

 

Wow.........so you, and UNDBIZ, can infer all that from my post? Pretty big leap.........."labeling them all alcoholics"..."negative label on an entire culture". Maybe you're right.....or maybe you're so ignorant and arrorogant in your PC thinking that you just assumed that what I was thinking. Maybe I'm a racist in so much that I'll post a picture of me in my KKK Halloween custom or maybe I'm not and you interjected what you wanted to......because that's what you were thinking?

[Esoteric]

The protesters are not exclusively Sioux tribal members but many are from all the tribes that have been affected over the years.  You mention what I believe was a language tie to the Sioux called the Siouan Language which is spoken by the Mandan, Hidatsa, not sure of the Arikara, and a number of other tribes.  I first was introduced to this by a professor at the University of North Dakota named Art Raymond who I believe at the time was writing a dictionary of the language.  I do not know the exact make-up and number of the protesters as to which tribes they belong to, however the water involved potentially affects a large amount of the United States.  The question I have for my home state is… how has the oil cleanup of the Williston Basin progressed and are we relying on the similar type of government rules and government oversight to move the oil without additional damage to North Dakota and to the water that flows from North Dakota to other parts of the country? 

 

[TBR]

1 hour ago, Cratter said:

I guess it was more of a science question. What's the water content of the soil 90 feet below a river? How much water needs to be mixed with soil and oil before its able to float upwards? 

We know more about planets light years away than we do about a few miles below our feet.

The pore space of sand is typically about 25%, while the pore space in clay is about 40%, which might seems counterintuitive. It is the degree of interconnectedness of the pore spaces that determines the material's transmissivity, and sand is more transmissive than clay.  Below the river 90 feet you will find sand. Below that sand in the area we are talking about you will get into silty, clayey formations like the Hell Creek Formation. Below the river you have essentially 100% saturation so the oil, being lighter than and immiscible with water, moves upward. Now beneath a reservoir groundwater movement is downward, but the density gradient between the oil and the water will trump the hydraulic gradient.

And yes, I am a hydrogeologist.

[TBR]

4 hours ago, Hockeygirl97 said:

Any research you do on the subject will inevitably lead you to population control. 

Sorry, but that simply is not true.

[Nodak78]

19 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

The protesters are not exclusively Sioux tribal members but many are from all the tribes that have been affected over the years.  You mention what I believe was a language tie to the Sioux called the Siouan Language which is spoken by the Mandan, Hidatsa, not sure of the Arikara, and a number of other tribes.  I first was introduced to this by a professor at the University of North Dakota named Art Raymond who I believe at the time was writing a dictionary of the language.  I do not know the exact make-up and number of the protesters as to which tribes they belong to, however the water involved potentially affects a large amount of the United States.  The question I have for my home state is… how has the oil cleanup of the Williston Basin progressed and are we relying on the similar type of government rules and government oversight to move the oil without additional damage to North Dakota and to the water that flows from North Dakota to other parts of the country? 

 

It is the eco terrorists, NA or not that are rioting and supported by EarthJustice.  EarthJustice is against any oil development.   SRST are just long for the ride and will suffer negative feelings from North Dakotans after all is done.

[Sioux>Bison]

40 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

The protesters are not exclusively Sioux tribal members but many are from all the tribes that have been affected over the years.  You mention what I believe was a language tie to the Sioux called the Siouan Language which is spoken by the Mandan, Hidatsa, not sure of the Arikara, and a number of other tribes.  I first was introduced to this by a professor at the University of North Dakota named Art Raymond who I believe at the time was writing a dictionary of the language.  I do not know the exact make-up and number of the protesters as to which tribes they belong to, however the water involved potentially affects a large amount of the United States.  The question I have for my home state is… how has the oil cleanup of the Williston Basin progressed and are we relying on the similar type of government rules and government oversight to move the oil without additional damage to North Dakota and to the water that flows from North Dakota to other parts of the country? 

 

You realize they already installed the same pipeline across the Missouri near Williston. There is no harm in installing this pipeline. Do you know how many pipelines are installed across rivers in the US? Thousands