Saving Private Baseball

[82SiouxGuy]

39 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Devil's Advocate time:

If Shanks is doing that is giving fuel to the anti-FCOA crowd. They'll say it's a sign that the athletes don't need it. 

 

32 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

Well...they don't.  They haven't had it up to this point...

If a single athlete, or even a few, does something like this it doesn't prove a thing. If a significant number did it they may be right. But lawsuits against the NCAA by athletes who don't believe they are getting enough money is what has driven the FCOA topic. A lot of people argue that the NCAA and the schools are making huge money off the kids, and that the kids deserve more. The argument has been more about who deserves what versus whether athletes need it.

As far as whether they need it or not, some do and some don't. If an athlete comes from a family that has money they may not need it. Some of these kids are barely scraping by. FCOA is huge for them. Just because they haven't had it before doesn't mean they don't need it.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

2 hours ago, UND-1 said:

They will get the first million, IMO.  The next 12 is going to be the issue.  

I would think if we get the 1st million in 2 years (half this year & half next), that would be all spent, and we would still need the 13mill to create the endowment, under today's plan. Or, raise a 1/2 mill every year?

But, in two years things could change again and the endowment could be dropped by then. Oil and agricultural products are presently at low prices, which could also change. Two by far largest industries in ND.

To me, baseball just seems like it belongs at UND.  I agree 21 teams at UND is to many. However if we ever move up in football, and we need to keep a minimum of 16 teams and we decide to do that, wouldn't baseball be a good fit in that mix?

There's been talk that these financial talks have been about the future, also.  Then one would think the athletic department and president must of had some conversation about the potential of FBS.  For baseball to have a second chance, there's more than meets the eye here.  UND is not going to let this 2nd chance happen with every cut they are planning on making. 

[Cratter]

3 hours ago, UND-1 said:

They will get the first million, IMO.  The next 12 is going to be the issue.  

The problem is that first million would be gone in two years and they'll be back at ground zero.

Edit: See barn winter beat me to it.

[UND-1]

25 minutes ago, Cratter said:

The problem is that first million would be gone in two years and they'll be back at ground zero.

Edit: See barn winter beat me to it.

By then they would already know their fate.  I would also say they wouldn't even play year two without the big gift in hand during year one.  

Gotta let em try if they want.  No different than any other program fighting to stay alive on campus.

If BF and his boss Irle can justify throwing away two million dollars a year on women's hockey, they can also justify letting baseball try to fundraise for its life.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

34 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

By then they would already know their fate.  I would also say they wouldn't even play year two without the big gift in hand during year one.  

Gotta let em try if they want.  No different than any other program fighting to stay alive on campus.

If BF and his boss Irle can justify throwing away two million dollars a year on women's hockey, they can also justify letting baseball try to fundraise for its life.

I agree with they would already know their fate after the next season. See Ya at the BALLGAME!

[SiouxVolley]

Interesting that today, St Jude Medical just got a buy out offer from Abbott for $30 B, which is almost 30% higher than yesterday.   Executives often get bonuses and a golden parachute when buyouts happen.  Andrew Thome's dad and friends may be much more generous now.

[CMSioux]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/local-sports/4022509-unc-baseball-coach-und-making-mistake

Pretty easy for a coach from another school to spend UND's money.

"Hey Coach" what do you think about UND dropping baseball?" - response - "I think that was a tough decision UND had to make based on their budget and their goals for the future." (What no college baseball coach would ever say.)

So if you asked 100 college baseball coaches their opinion on whether UND should keep its baseball team what do you think they would say? It's not like UND just put programs in a hat and pulled them out. 

[UND-1]

58 minutes ago, CMSioux said:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/local-sports/4022509-unc-baseball-coach-und-making-mistake

Pretty easy for a coach from another school to spend UND's money.

"Hey Coach" what do you think about UND dropping baseball?" - response - "I think that was a tough decision UND had to make based on their budget and their goals for the future." (What no college baseball coach would ever say.)

So if you asked 100 college baseball coaches their opinion on whether UND should keep its baseball team what do you think they would say? It's not like UND just put programs in a hat and pulled them out. 

It's easy for a Women's AD to cut Men's sports, also.  Then lie to everyone about Title IX.  

Cutting baseball is surface level stuff.  The real problem is over at Hyslop.  

[The Sicatoka]

3 hours ago, CMSioux said:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/local-sports/4022509-unc-baseball-coach-und-making-mistake

Pretty easy for a coach from another school to spend UND's money.

"Hey Coach" what do you think about UND dropping baseball?" - response - "I think that was a tough decision UND had to make based on their budget and their goals for the future." (What no college baseball coach would ever say.)

So if you asked 100 college baseball coaches their opinion on whether UND should keep its baseball team what do you think they would say? It's not like UND just put programs in a hat and pulled them out. 

No kidding. That coach knows a precedent could be set. He's worried for his program (and job). 

[The Sicatoka]

2 hours ago, UND-1 said:

It's easy for a Women's AD to cut Men's sports, also.  Then lie to everyone about Title IX.  

I'm seeing this consistent theme. Please explain to me what is behind your statements. Does UND not have to follow Title IX (Federal law). I want to find out what you know about this and what the concern is. Otherwise it just seems to be generalized complaining about a law (that I'll plainly admit I have some issues with). 

I'm looking for an open, honest answer about what the issues and concerns are, not just "women's hockey is too expensive". 

[UND-1]

14 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

I'm seeing this consistent theme. Please explain to me what is behind your statements. Does UND not have to follow Title IX (Federal law). I want to find out what you know about this and what the concern is. Otherwise it just seems to be generalized complaining about a law (that I'll plainly admit I have some issues with). 

I'm looking for an open, honest answer about what the issues and concerns are, not just "women's hockey is too expensive". 

Ask around if you know people in the athletic department.  There is following Title IX.  Then, there is using "Title IX" as a tool to make sure nobody messes with women's sports on campus.  Per my sources, nobody really looks into what can be done with scholarships, opportunities, etc.  It's always rammed down their throats that nothing can be changed and Men's sports need to be cut or taken scholarships from (like when Irle took a baseball scholarship and gave it to soccer so they had 14).  Isn't UND's M to W enrollment ratio around 53 to 47?

People are thinking that Title IX is some hardline, clear cut process and it is the exact opposite as far as I know.  It is extremely confusing, actually, and I am not trying to act like an expert.  A lot of gray area with some major "guidelines" to follow.  

[UNDvince97-01]

UND does have to follow Title IX.

To what extent is the subjective question?

Where are we at now for the 3 prong system?  Is it more than we need to be regarding compliance?  How do we compare to our regional peer institutions and their compliance figures? 

Some of these complaints and problems exist because we are exceedingly Title IX compliant when we don't have to be.  We will be even more compliant than we already are now after cutting 40 more mens participants and 6 mens scholarships.

Could we have/should we have cut a womens sport? 

This false assumption that we cannot cut a certain womens sport because of Title IX is false and borderline fear mongering.  We could allocate all or some of their scholarships and/or participants to the other womens sports and still be laughing about our compliance.

This is where the beef lies with the athletics department and their Title IX bullies.

[petey23]

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 10:58 AM, JohnboyND7 said:

Well...they don't.  They haven't had it up to this point...

Well, it is a pay cut for the average SEC football player.

[petey23]

Not an expert on title 9 by any stretch but did a little research using some recent numbers.

UND has a 57/43 men to women ratio and offers sports that allow for 150 scholarships for men and 135 for women which puts us ahead of the curve at 53/47. As far as participation we are at 250 males and 212 females which again is ahead of the curve at 54/46.

NDSU has a 55/45 men to women ration and offers sports that allow for 127 scholarships for men and 95 for women which slightly puts them on the wrong side at 57/43 and they have participation numbers of 292 males and 149 female athletes which throw them way out of whack at 66/34.

Maybe we should model our Title 9 compliance program after theirs?

I think the answer for UND is to add Women's Rowing to the mix and get rid of some of the money draining women's sports like Hockey and Soccer(I know Big sky....but exceptions can and have been made to other schools). I believe it is 14 scholarships but looking at participation numbers, schools like Iowa and Minnesota have around 90 female athletes in rowing......I am guessing they probably have 15-20 or more ladies on campus who are on the rowing team and may not even realize it.

[Cratter]

Here's the thought for the day:

Isn't title nine discrimination?

A college can have 51% female athletes on scholarship.

But if they have 49% females on scholarships it's against the law.

(Given the school is 50/50 males to females.)

[fightingsioux4life]

11 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Here's the thought for the day:

Isn't title nine discrimination?

A college can have 51% female athletes on scholarship.

But if they have 49% females on scholarships it's against the law.

(Given the school is 50/50 males to females.)

It doesn't have to be discrimination. If we do it right, we can offer opportunities for women without hurting men. Whether or not we are doing it right is open for debate.

[SIOUXFAN97]

5 hours ago, UNDvince97-01 said:

UND does have to follow Title IX.

To what extent is the subjective question?

Where are we at now for the 3 prong system?  Is it more than we need to be regarding compliance?  How do we compare to our regional peer institutions and their compliance figures? 

Some of these complaints and problems exist because we are exceedingly Title IX compliant when we don't have to be.  We will be even more compliant than we already are now after cutting 40 more mens participants and 6 mens scholarships.

Could we have/should we have cut a womens sport? 

This false assumption that we cannot cut a certain womens sport because of Title IX is false and borderline fear mongering.  We could allocate all or some of their scholarships and/or participants to the other womens sports and still be laughing about our compliance.

This is where the beef lies with the athletics department and their Title IX bullies.

maybe someone at the heraldo could do some real checking on this...brad?

[The Sicatoka]

I believe UND is using the first prong test to comply with Title IX: "Provide athletic participation opportunities that are substantially proportionate to the undergraduate enrollment."

[dakotadan]

4 hours ago, Cratter said:

Here's the thought for the day:

Isn't title nine discrimination?

A college can have 51% female athletes on scholarship.

But if they have 49% females on scholarships it's against the law.

(Given the school is 50/50 males to females.)

No, it's not discrimination. Males are "technically" covered by Title IX too. If the school has a 50/50 ratio but offers 51% of their sports scholarships to females a male student could take them to court for not following Title IX. 

[82SiouxGuy]

1 hour ago, dakotadan said:

No, it's not discrimination. Males are "technically" covered by Title IX too. If the school has a 50/50 ratio but offers 51% of their sports scholarships to females a male student could take them to court for not following Title IX. 

I doubt that a 1% difference either way is going to make a difference. Those numbers fluctuate from year to year, even from semester to semester. The test would be a significant under representation consistently over time. NDSU's ratio of male athletes to female athletes compared to the ratio in the student body is an example that could be a red flag to authorities. It hasn't been found to be a problem yet, but that doesn't mean it won't become one. I don't believe there are any Title IX cops looking for problems. Most Title IX cases come when someone, often students, file formal complaints. All it takes is one complaint to cause a huge problem.

You are right about it covering males and females. The other thing that most people don't realize is that Title IX doesn't just cover athletics or dollars spent on athletics. Title IX was meant to make sure that people get equivalent opportunities across the board in higher education.  It protects against sexual discrimination. It protects against sexual harassment. Schools can't tell pregnant students they can't come to class, or that they have to take specific classes because they are pregnant. Schools can't discourage girls from taking STEM programs, or boys from going into nursing or elementary education. Title IX is much bigger than athletics,

[SWSiouxMN]

2 hours ago, dakotadan said:

No, it's not discrimination. Males are "technically" covered by Title IX too. If the school has a 50/50 ratio but offers 51% of their sports scholarships to females a male student could take them to court for not following Title IX. 

wasn't there a school not too long ago that had too few males and they moved to football team to FBS to comply with title IX?

[Cratter]

I heard there's a rivalry baseball game today that nobody is talking about...

[nodak651]

Did they take out the bleachers behind the UND dugout?  Good crowd tonight.

[Wildfan]

Email from President Schafer

 

Quote

You likely have heard about efforts to create a fundraising opportunity designed to keep the Baseball program at UND. 

With the budget reduction decisions in Athletics, which included eliminating Baseball and Golf, total revenue and expenses within the department are balanced. Athletics is supported by a number of revenue streams. Some are specific to Athletics or a particular sport, while others are institutional support for the department as a whole. Decisions on the level of institutional support are ultimately made by the President through approval of the annual budget.

With that in mind, a plan was sought to reinstate Baseball based on the ability to attract external funding. Athletics Director Brian Faison and I worked and met with supporters of the program and we have reviewed potential fundraising plans. In the end, there was not a workable plan that would have generated enough revenue to sustain the program in the long run. So, with deep understanding of the pain experienced by our students who play baseball, as well as their supporters, we have been unable to reach agreement. 

I want to thank the supporters for their interest, their passion, and their efforts. I know this has been difficult for students as well as for their for supporters. I wish we had a different result. However, in the end, we made the decision that we believe is in the best interest of Athletics and the university.
 

Ed Schafer
President

 

[SIOUXFAN97]

3 minutes ago, Wildfan said:

Email from President Schafer