UND1983 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Eli Manning or Payton Manning....Who you picking? Brett Favre or Trent Dilfer.....Who you picking? Horrible analogies. You realize they all won the big one, right?
siouxfan512 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Horrible analogies. You realize they all won the big one, right? Fine, I will alter his analogy Marino or Dilfer
Siouxperfan7 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Of course those are those that hate it when people bring up other coaches and compare their success to Hak. But it just furthers the point that everyone that that thinks Hak should be fired is literally our of their mind. Look at another NCHC counterpart. Enrico Blasi. Let's look at his career at Miami: Years at Miami - 16 Regular Season Championships - 3 Conference Tournament Championships - 2 Playoff appearences - 10 Frozen Four appearences - 2 Championship game appearences - 1 National Championships - 0 Also, 5 of the 10 seasons Miami made the NCAA tournament, they failed to win a game. Do you think they are screaming for Blasi's head in Oxford? Just trying to put things in perspective when you consider the success of other coaches in college hockey. 1
UND1983 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Put Dean or Gino in the exact same Frozen Four games that Hak has been in, and I am betting we still have 7 titles. Some of those games we were just outplayed; BC usually got the best of us, because they were dominating teams. They were just better. Some games have no explanation, that is just the way the sport is. We outplayed BU and lost, and that is the coach's fault. Had we showed up like Lucia's Goofers did and played completely flat and uninspired in the first game of the tourney, I would have been a little more upset. Their coaching history says otherwise and that you are completely 100% wrong. Once they get to the big game they get sprinkles on their dessert. 2 1
siouxfan512 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Of course those are those that hate it when people bring up other coaches and compare their success to Hak. But it just furthers the point that everyone that that thinks Hak should be fired is literally our of their mind. Look at another NCHC counterpart. Enrico Blasi. Let's look at his career at Miami: Years at Miami - 16 Regular Season Championships - 3 Conference Tournament Championships - 2 Playoff appearences - 10 Frozen Four appearences - 2 Championship game appearences - 1 National Championships - 0 Also, 5 of the 10 seasons Miami made the NCAA tournament, they failed to win a game. Do you think they are screaming for Blasi's head in Oxford? Just trying to put things in perspective when you consider the success of other coaches in college hockey. Well put, and Blasi is a great coach despite his number of "Natty's". That being said, i'd still take Hak.
Irish Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Of course those are those that hate it when people bring up other coaches and compare their success to Hak. But it just furthers the point that everyone that that thinks Hak should be fired is literally our of their mind. Look at another NCHC counterpart. Enrico Blasi. Let's look at his career at Miami: Years at Miami - 16 Regular Season Championships - 3 Conference Tournament Championships - 2 Playoff appearences - 10 Frozen Four appearences - 2 Championship game appearences - 1 National Championships - 0 Also, 5 of the 10 seasons Miami made the NCAA tournament, they failed to win a game. Do you think they are screaming for Blasi's head in Oxford? Just trying to put things in perspective when you consider the success of other coaches in college hockey. Because Oxford isn't Grand Forks and Miami doesn't have UND's tradition of championships and Blasi didn't take over a team whose previous two coaches had won 5 championships. 1
The Sicatoka Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Four teams go to a Frozen Four (Capt. Obvious moment). One of those four wins it; statistically, you should win 25% of those you attend. UND has seven titles. Has UND been to 28 Frozen Fours? Early franchise enormous success is meeting up with statistics. See: Central Limit Theorem or Regression to the Mean
The Sicatoka Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 And I'm going to say it again: As long as UND brings the "S word" to their showcase*, UND will receive the "Marco Hunt" treatment from the NCAA. http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/20534-closing-in-on-epic-title-drought/?p=783655 *By not subscribing to something new.
UND1983 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Four teams go to a Frozen Four (Capt. Obvious moment). One of those four wins it; statistically, you should win 25% of those you attend. UND has seven titles. Has UND been to 28 Frozen Fours? Early franchise enormous success is meeting up with statistics. See: Central Limit Theorem or Regression to the Mean How long have they actually had a "Frozen Four" or Final Four type of tournament?
The Sicatoka Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 How long have they actually had a "Frozen Four" or Final Four type of tournament? Change "Frozen Four" to "made national semifinals game" and the statistics don't change. Make nation semis --> 1 in 4 chance of winning it all. Has UND made the national semis 28 times?
Benny Baker Posted April 13, 2015 Author Posted April 13, 2015 Four teams go to a Frozen Four (Capt. Obvious moment). One of those four wins it; statistically, you should win 25% of those you attend. UND has seven titles. Has UND been to 28 Frozen Fours? Early franchise enormous success is meeting up with statistics. See: Central Limit Theorem or Regression to the Mean Spot on, except that UND has been to 21 frozen fours, so they've actually won more than 25% of the time. That is--all other coaches except Hakstol have brought UND to the frozen four on 14 occasions and won it all 7 times. Hakstol has brought UND to the frozen four on 7 occasions and, well . . . .
The Sicatoka Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Spot on, except that UND has been to 21 frozen fours, so they've actually won more than 25% of the time. That is--all other coaches except Hakstol have brought UND to the frozen four on 14 occasions and won it all 7 times. Hakstol has brought UND to the frozen four on 7 occasions and, well . . . . Let me clarify the bolded portion: We got spoiled, and now statistics are catching up.
Shawn-O Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 I think we should extend him. I don't understand the fire Hakstol mindset, nor do I understand this.
Benny Baker Posted April 13, 2015 Author Posted April 13, 2015 Let me clarify the bolded portion: We got spoiled, and now statistics are catching up. But this is exactly the basis for the "Fire Hak" brigade's animosity. May, Thorndycraft, Gasparini, and Blais would win the national title every other time UND made the frozen four. Save his first, Hakstol simply has been unable to win a game.
mksioux Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 If he is let go (I'll be upset but I'd get over it) there better not be a F&*$ing dog and pony show to hire the replacement. Good point. Between North Dakota's open records laws and UND's ridiculous procedures, it would definitely be a sh!tshow. Although it looks like Bubba was ultimately a good selection, the process of hiring the football coach was laughable and the it would ten times worse for hockey. I doubt many fans who are primarily hockey fans even realize how bad the process would be. All applicants are published in the Herald (depressing the pool of candidates), the process is dragged out to last forever with no possibility of a quick hire - even if the AD is targeting a particular coach, and the HR department selects the finalists based on a "points process" as if they're hiring a chemistry professor. It's a real gem of a process. Hakstol was hired internally, so we haven't seen what North Dakota's stupid hiring laws would like in the internet age when applied to hiring the head hockey coach at UND.
squirtcoach Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 I think we can all agree the real problem here is hockey uses goals to measure wins and losses. No, the REAL problem is basketball does not allow goaltending and checking like hockey does.
squirtcoach Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Four teams go to a Frozen Four (Capt. Obvious moment). One of those four wins it; statistically, you should win 25% of those you attend. UND has seven titles. Has UND been to 28 Frozen Fours? Early franchise enormous success is meeting up with statistics. See: Central Limit Theorem or Regression to the Mean The roulette wheel does not remember if the ball landed on red four times in a row, but the NCAA never forgets.
cberkas Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 How long have they actually had a "Frozen Four" or Final Four type of tournament? Since 1948 the first NCAA championship.
Benny Baker Posted April 13, 2015 Author Posted April 13, 2015 Four teams go to a Frozen Four (Capt. Obvious moment). One of those four wins it; statistically, you should win 25% of those you attend. UND has seven titles. Has UND been to 28 Frozen Fours? Early franchise enormous success is meeting up with statistics. See: Central Limit Theorem or Regression to the Mean The roulette wheel does not remember if the ball landed on red four times in a row, but the NCAA never forgets. No kidding. The biggest folly with the regression to the mean argument is that it applies both ways; Hakstol should have won at least 25% of UND's 7 most recent frozen fours. Put another way, Hakstol should have at least one, if not two, titles by now.
Irish Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Four teams go to a Frozen Four (Capt. Obvious moment). One of those four wins it; statistically, you should win 25% of those you attend. UND has seven titles. Has UND been to 28 Frozen Fours? Early franchise enormous success is meeting up with statistics. See: Central Limit Theorem or Regression to the Mean Probably the most applicable to this would be either Central Limit Theorem or The Law of Large Numbers, both of which refer to things evening out to the expected outcomes or norm "given a sufficiently large number of trials" 28 trials is absolutely too small a sample for either to kick in. Not even close. Think of flipping coins. If someone flipped 10 times and got heads 8 times it would be mildly unusual but not even close to being incredible. If someone flipped 10,000 times and got 80% heads it would be off the charts amazing. You need a large sample for either "law" to work. If people are saying that the reason that Hak is having such a tought time in the Frozen Four is that Gino and Dean did so well they are searching for explanations in areas where none are to be found. The fact is that no one knows why we are snakebit. Seems to be a little bit of everything with two common elements - less that stellar goaltending and falling behind early. I like many of the things Hak does with our program. My question is - can he be flexible - can he find a fix for this? I really wonder what his take-away is from watching recent Frozen Four game tapes - not trying to be snotty, I really wonder what he sees after study and analysis like no lay person does - what does he see and what if anything is he planning on doing differently. I personally would really like to open up the offense and carry the puck in more, but that's just my layman's opinion. 2
Irish Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 No kidding. The biggest folly with the regression to the mean argument is that it applies both ways; Hakstol should have won at least 25% of UND's 7 most recent frozen fours. Put another way, Hakstol should have at least one, if not two, titles by now. However, most aren't quoting the "odds" when they talk about our failures - they refer more to our tradition and expectations.
gfhockey Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Point plain and simple When haks teams dt to the big show They don't perform Maybe espn 2 and real espn gets to Hak
Benny Baker Posted April 13, 2015 Author Posted April 13, 2015 However, most aren't quoting the "odds" when they talk about our failures - they refer more to our tradition and expectations. But this is exactly the basis for the "Fire Hak" brigade's animosity. May, Thorndycraft, Gasparini, and Blais would win the national title every other time UND made the frozen four. Save his first, Hakstol simply has been unable to win a game. Exactly. May, Thorndycraft, Gasparini, Blais, and a few others were winning every other frozen four that UND went to; i.e, tradition and expectations. Hakstol's record does not equal the tradition and expectations set by his predecessors.
90siouxfan Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Point plain and simpleWhen haks teams dt to the big showThey don't performMaybe espn 2 and real espn gets to HakMaybe he just needs you in his corner, instead of the negatives vibes. Did you mentally harass Dean with your backwardian voodoo mind chit? Simple question.
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