College Hockey Expansion

[Shawn-O]

1 hour ago, TalonsUpPuckDown said:

It's a really good question.  If you're an FBS school, football runs your athletic department and the reality is that MAC schools simply can't compete with the FCS $chool$. But, due to the current college football landscape, they have to keep trying.  Take Miami and BG.  Miami is towards the top of the MAC in athletic department expenditures while BG is towards the bottom.  However, Miami is also towards the top of the MAC in borrowing from the general fund to cover athletics overruns while BG is toward the bottom.  And according to Bergeron, Miami's travel went up $200k in the NCHC's first year.  That's not sustainable with all that football cashola being shoveled out the door when neither school sniffs a New Year's Day bowl payday (you can count on two fingers the number of times a MAC team played on New Year's Day). Subsequently, the rest of the MAC schools fall somewhere in the middle but none of them escape the football wars.  Heck, Akron built a new football stadium which they don't have the money to pay for -- they ain't startin' hockey... 

For MAC schools, facilities aren't necessarily the issue...it's football and Title IX.  So yeah, ain't happenin'.  And Miami and Western aren't "hockey schools," they're FBS football schools.  Like BG, Akron, Buffalo, etc.  Follow the money.

D1's where hockey generates the lion's share of revenue, you're probably looking at Denver, Omaha, and North Dakota in the West and Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine in the East.  Throw BU in there too.  

[SiouxVolley]

1 hour ago, TalonsUpPuckDown said:

It's a really good question.  If you're an FBS school, football runs your athletic department and the reality is that MAC schools simply can't compete with the FCS $chool$. But, due to the current college football landscape, they have to keep trying.  Take Miami and BG.  Miami is towards the top of the MAC in athletic department expenditures while BG is towards the bottom.  However, Miami is also towards the top of the MAC in borrowing from the general fund to cover athletics overruns while BG is toward the bottom.  And according to Bergeron, Miami's travel went up $200k in the NCHC's first year.  That's not sustainable with all that football cashola being shoveled out the door when neither school sniffs a New Year's Day bowl payday (you can count on two fingers the number of times a MAC team played on New Year's Day). Subsequently, the rest of the MAC schools fall somewhere in the middle but none of them escape the football wars.  Heck, Akron built a new football stadium which they don't have the money to pay for -- they ain't startin' hockey... 

For MAC schools, facilities aren't necessarily the issue...it's football and Title IX.  So yeah, ain't happenin'.  And Miami and Western aren't "hockey schools," they're FBS football schools.  Like BG, Akron, Buffalo, etc.  Follow the money.

Have said G5's are unlikely to add hockey because fb costs to be competitive are almost always going up.

But Toledo could be an exception because of its existing hockey fan base and existing college sized arena.  Confident that they could be profitable day one.

But that begs the next question, why doesn't BGSU play some home hockey games in the Huntington Center, if your arena is in disrepair?

[TalonsUpPuckDown]

4 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Have said G5's are unlikely to add hockey because fb costs to be competitive are almost always going up.

But Toledo could be an exception because of its existing hockey fan base and existing college sized arena.  Confident that they could be profitable day one.

But that begs the next question, why doesn't BGSU play some home hockey games in the Huntington Center, if your arena is in disrepair?

Ice Breaker was just in the Huntington Center.  We play there every couple of years.  Toledo (my hometown -- mom, dad, sister still live there) is a fantastic IHL/ECHL town but sucks for college hockey.  There is zero local interest outside of the local BG alums who wouldn't be caught dead at a UT hockey game.  And we draw much better at home than we do in the Huntington Center.  UT might change that but only when BG would roll into town.  No one in Toledo has ever heard of Ferris State, St. Cloud, Minnesota Duluth, Lake Superior, or Mercyhurst.  And aside from the Buckeyes who have done a great job of ensuring they regularly play their smaller Ohio brethren, no other B1G team would put Toledo on their schedule.  They'd struggle.  And they're having enrollment issues which is odd for an open enrollment university so adding a high cost sport that won't be revenue neutral along with Title IX considerations makes it a non-starter. Which is bad because I'd love to kick the $hit out of them every year but good because they simply suck.

And while our barn is old and WAS in a state of disrepair 10 years ago, we've put a few mil into fixing it up including tearing up the concrete last year and redoing all the under ice plumbing.  It'll never be the Ralph or Goggin, but disrepair isn't an accurate word to describe the current state of our facilities.  Current plans include a revamp of the south end to include luxury boxes and alumni seating - fundraising has already started.  That would bring our seating capacity to roughly 5500.  So stop reading those Miami State press clippings...  ;-)

We are not the same program that existed when the last round of realignment took place.  When Bergeron, Eigner, and Schutte took over our moribund program they were probably the only three  in the country willing to sign up.  Fast forward 10 years; Eigner had over 80 applicants for the assistant coaching positions this past summer.  Bowling Green hockey is in a very good place right now.

[HockeyFan31]

11 hours ago, TalonsUpPuckDown said:

 And aside from the Buckeyes who have done a great job of ensuring they regularly play their smaller Ohio brethren, no other B1G team would put Toledo on their schedule. 

I think you're underestimating Penn St's cupcake non-conference schedule. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to schedule a D1 startup Toledo squad.

[TalonsUpPuckDown]

7 hours ago, HockeyFan31 said:

I think you're underestimating Penn St's cupcake non-conference schedule. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to schedule a D1 startup Toledo squad.

Touché!!!!

[Godsmack]

Does anyone here think that Air Force could be competitive in the WCHA? 

[SiouxVolley]

29 minutes ago, Godsmack said:

Does anyone here think that Air Force could be competitive in the WCHA? 

They probably could be competitive but they want conference rivals with the service academies.  Navy will add the sport some day, as they have an ice arena.  Travel costs are not an issue with them,

[Vegas_Sioux]

39 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

They probably could be competitive but they want conference rivals with the service academies.  Navy will add the sport some day, as they have an ice arena.  Travel costs are not an issue with them,

Load up a c130 and drop them off at the nearest Air Force or air guard base. 

[SiouxVolley]

Been talked about here, but St Thomas as a new team to the orphan 7 team leave that broke off the WCHA seems likely.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mankatofreepress.com/sports/local_sports/column-st-thomas-would-be-good-fit-in-new-hockey/article_cc898032-e940-11e9-bb89-ef0840308eaa.amp.html

[John W.]

FLOhockey....new network covering college hockey for the BIG, WCHA and Atlantic Hockey conferences.....great new exposure  in college hockey hotbeds....Minnesota , Great Lakes area, PA, NY and New England areas...Great exposure for to add to expansion  of the sport...

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

2 hours ago, John W. said:

FLOhockey....new network covering college hockey for the BIG, WCHA and Atlantic Hockey conferences.....great new exposure  in college hockey hotbeds....Minnesota , Great Lakes area, PA, NY and New England areas...Great exposure for to add to expansion  of the sport...

While it's nice to see your post not struggle to come full circle to "thumbs down for UND hockey" for once, in no way is a tech company overcharging for a compilation of single camera feeds with low production quality good for exposure. FLO is prohibitively expensive for casual fans (and price-sensitive hardcore fans as well), and the profits find their way to Austin rather than the hockey conferences themselves. The fact that B1G was willing to include their product suggests hockey is a low priority to them.

Streaming your games for free like RPI, Vermont, NEU, etc. do is good for exposure. 

[Rebel_Sioux]

On 10/23/2019 at 6:36 PM, Godsmack said:

Does anyone here think that Air Force could be competitive in the WCHA? 

 

On 10/23/2019 at 7:08 PM, SiouxVolley said:

They probably could be competitive but they want conference rivals with the service academies.  Navy will add the sport some day, as they have an ice arena.  Travel costs are not an issue with them,

I've always though that the AF and the WCHA would make a lot of sense as while. Unfortunately I think SiouxVolley is right. They are happy where they are at.

[Millsy]

Air Force had a tough time in the old CHA with BSU, UAH, Niagara and Robert Morris.  In the AHA, they are a big fish in that pond and content with where they are at.

[SiouxVolley]

It seems something is up with UW-Eau Claire..

Either they have given up on their dream of DI hockey in a new arena, or they will move to DII and drop football and start DI hockey..

https://www.dailyunion.com/sports/wiac-uw-eau-claire-officially-brings-back-baseball-adds-men/article_64b76d1b-2fe9-55af-98cf-d36f63cb9be8.html

Tite IX would be messed up except by the DII option, but they wouldn’t need the huge and expanding band then.  The GLIAC and WCHA would probably add them.  The GLIAC needs more baseball, M soccer and W lax teams too, and UW-Parkside is a member.

The new 4100 seat Sonnentag Arena is expected to start construction this month which UW-EC will pay for almost half.  UWEC also has the students voting on student fees next spring.

https://wqow.com/news/top-stories/2019/10/08/plans-move-forward-on-eau-claires-sonnentag-event-and-recreation-center/

[Yote 53]

I was told a year ago by my friends in the Wisconsin hockey world, people who do actually know what is going on, that Eau Claire was going D1 hockey.

After reading this article I question that.  This quote says a lot:

“Blugold student-athletes see higher retention and graduation rates than non-athletes,” Schmidt said. “And frankly, the costs of a Division III sports program are incredibly low by comparison to our sister institutions at DI and DII.”

It appears they are adding athletic programs as a way to increase enrollment.  A typical D3 school move.

 

[SiouxVolley]

7 hours ago, Yote 53 said:

I was told a year ago by my friends in the Wisconsin hockey world, people who do actually know what is going on, that Eau Claire was going D1 hockey.

After reading this article I question that.  This quote says a lot:

“Blugold student-athletes see higher retention and graduation rates than non-athletes,” Schmidt said. “And frankly, the costs of a Division III sports program are incredibly low by comparison to our sister institutions at DI and DII.”

It appears they are adding athletic programs as a way to increase enrollment.  A typical D3 school move.

 

Remember your post about Eau Claire wanting DI hockey.  But didn’t think they would get an exemption from DIII to take hockey DI so would be forced to DII if they are serious about DI hockey.

Those three sports being added are all sports that the GLIAC considers low participation in the league having only six or seven school participants.  The addition of UWEC would immediately firm those numbers up.

The fact the UWEC is paying almost half the capital cost of the arena is very significant too, as it shows commitment .

If St Thomas doesn’t get the exemption for going DI, the GLIAC would be almost it’s natural league and it would have a travel partner.  The Northern Sun doesn’t seem to want “ temporary” members for a DII transition and then five years.  The GLIAC has been expanding in northern Indiana and Illinois and southern Wisconsin as it lost most of its Ohio members and Michigan doesn’t have many more possible schools plus those new schools don’t have football.

Of course the WIAC would almost panic if it lost a long time school to the GLIAC, but it could offer UW-Superior to be a member again so they move from NAIA to DIII.

UWEC will face political issues from the WIAC and public so they will state some facts for PR purposes that they don’t necessarily follow.  They are betting that DI hockey will make UWEC the hockey school other than UW in the state..  That will bring more state and national attention than being a good compliant member of the WIAC.

[Rebel_Sioux]

I think the NCAA has too many dumb rules about how many sports schools need to have and at what level(s). 

[LuvHockey]

2 hours ago, Rebel_Sioux said:

I think the NCAA has too many dumb rules.

Fixed your post...….

[Rebel_Sioux]

27 minutes ago, LuvHockey said:

Fixed your post...….

I concur with your edits

[SiouxVolley]

A new 8000 seat arena was given final approval in Clarksville, TN. Austin Peay U will play there, but it hasn’t announced a team yet., but the local paper says it will.

https://www.wsmv.com/news/montgomery_county/clarksville-getting-downtown-arena/article_7dfb2272-067d-11ea-9000-e3619070e540.html

[cberkas]

7 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

A new 8000 seat arena was given final approval in Clarksville, TN. Austin Peay U will play there, but it hasn’t announced a team yet., but the local paper says it will.

https://www.wsmv.com/news/montgomery_county/clarksville-getting-downtown-arena/article_7dfb2272-067d-11ea-9000-e3619070e540.html

They're basketball team will play there nothing about hockey was mentioned. 

[SiouxVolley]

31 minutes ago, cberkas said:

They're basketball team will play there nothing about hockey was mentioned. 

The Bridgstone Arena will manage it, will have ice, and Austin Peay will claim 40 events there.  A hockey team might not be there, but it is also possible.

[MafiaMan]

3 hours ago, cberkas said:

They're basketball team will play there nothing about hockey was mentioned. 

Sooo disappointed in this, cberkas.  You’re better than that.  

[SiouxVolley]

On 5/1/2019 at 8:45 AM, IrishSiouxFan said:

Looks like Clarksville, TN is teaming up with the Nashville Predators and Austin Peay State University (APSU) to build a downtown event center that includes ice.  I'm a UND alumni currently working at APSU.  We are a small institution strapped for cash.  However, downtown Clarksville is literally across the street from campus (not even a mile), so I can't help but think there might be some interest in the sport (hockey is extremely popular in Nashville right now and the state doesn't have a college D1, D2, or D3 team to pull for).  Regardless of what happens, it'll be nice to see hockey grow in this area!

https://eu.theleafchronicle.com/story/news/local/clarksville/2019/04/25/clarksville-event-center-6-things-know-plan/3555012002/

People here don't seem to have memories. 

[SiouxVolley]

Utah has gone from <8000 registered hockey players prior to the Olympics to 54,000 today.  The rink system has similarly grown.

Couldn’t be too long before some school from Utah takes the plunge.

https://kslsports.com/423474/2002-olympics-spurred-massive-hockey-growth-in-utah/