College Hockey Expansion

[jdub27]

35 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Financial sense...one exit fee. The rest would be essentially the same. Keep their own tv contract minus any national games (cbs vs big ten). Midco contract would probably be more valuable and possible have to compete with Fox Sports.

Don't accept and they risk losing money thanks to the Big poaching another NCHC team and making the conference weaker. The ball starts rolling.

Financial sense as in what kind of cut does UND get of B1G revenues along with the obvious exit fee.

You think Fox Sports is going to start bidding on UND's contracts? Are they going to offer the sports wide coverage along with all the extras that Midco does?

How exactly is losing UMD or Omaha (in the odd chance the B1G is actually truly considering them) some sort of huge financial risk when they would be replaced by Mankato in a heartbeat or ASU if they ever get their arena figured out? The REA is at or near sellout regardless of the opponent and neither of the schools bring a huge contingent to the Final Five, which is dependent on UND making it every year or that they don't miss it multiple years in a row and eat up their contingency fund.

UND doesn't need to accept an offer on the B1G's terms. UND and the NCHC will be just fine even if they were to lose UMD or Omaha.

[Cratter]

1 minute ago, jdub27 said:

UND doesn't need to accept an offer on the B1g's terms, they and the NCHC will be just fine even if they were to lose UMD or Omaha.

UND will be fine either way. If the "financial sense" works (which I believe no doubt it will...maybe the Big will make UND pay two mill a year to be in the conference ) UND will not to turning down a Big Ten Hockey Conference Invite.

 

[jdub27]

10 minutes ago, Cratter said:

UND will be fine either way. If the "financial sense" works (which I believe no doubt it will...maybe the Big will make UND pay two mill a year to be in the conference ) UND will not to turning down a Big Ten Hockey Conference Invite.

So you are stating that if UND is offered a spot in the B1G with no financial incentives (which is what Notre Dame and Johns Hopkins get) and no guarantee of continued affiliation down the road (say if another B1G starts hockey), they still wouldn't turn it down? Seems like it would be an absolute train wreck of an idea to me. In that kind of scenario, UND is paying a bunch of money to give up all their leverage just to say they get to sit at the cool kids table without a permanent spot.

[Cratter]

5 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

So you are stating that if UND is offered a spot in the B1G with no financial incentives.

What financial incentives do the NCHC give? There's no revenue sharing.

[GFG]

2 minutes ago, AJS said:

No, but that wasn't my argument. If I were to chose to either have Duluth or Mankato in UND's conference, it would be Duluth. Duluth is a stronger program than Mankato, but it wouldn't make a difference financially to UND. They would sell the same amount of tickets regardless. Also, we are talking one hockey series at home a year. So, I'm with you that Duluth is a stronger program, but it also wouldn't really affect anything to do with the conference if it were to happen.

My bad, I misinterpreted your comment a bit. This isn't as much about financial matters at it is interest (which could help financially with tickets/merchandise). If UND loses one of the major draws they have every year to a conference with Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan that they themselves could have joined it could cause problems with a lot of fans. It can make casual fans start to lose some interest. On the contrary, you would likely see interest among those many casual fans skyrocket with Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State and Notre Dame coming to Grand Forks every year. Those big names may not necessarily mean a ton to the UND hockey die hards, but to the larger majority of casual UND hockey fans it can make a difference because they like to see their supposed "small" school in Grand Forks competing with the large, top level universities. 

[GFG]

10 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

So you are stating that if UND is offered a spot in the B1G with no financial incentives (which is what Notre Dame and Johns Hopkins get) and no guarantee of continued affiliation down the road (say if another B1G starts hockey), they still wouldn't turn it down? Seems like it would be an absolute train wreck of an idea to me. In that kind of scenario, UND is paying a bunch of money to give up all their leverage just to say they get to sit at the cool kids table without a permanent spot.

Notre Dame and Johns Hopkins get no financial incentives because they wanted to keep their primary media contracts in return for no financial incentives from the B1G. If UND lets the B1G have primary media rights they can get revenue share from the B1G

[Big Green]

1 hour ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

One row at a time, if President Kennedy chose which team UND would rather play every year, which would it be?

B1G                    vs                        NCHC

MN                                                 Mn Duluth

Wis                                                 Denver

Mich                                               Omaha

Mich St                                           St. Cloud

Ohio St                                           W Mich

Penn St                                          Miami Oh

Notre Dame                                   Col C

Every selection could possible be in the left column.

The 7 teams on the left had higher average attendance last season than the 7 on the right, by nearly something like 1,800. 

Minn and Mich on the left.  All the Rest on the right.  Michigan only because Omaha has very little interest to me long run.  Once Blais is gone I thing they take over CC's spot at the bottom of the standings.

 

[AJS]

10 minutes ago, GFG said:

My bad, I misinterpreted your comment a bit. This isn't as much about financial matters at it is interest (which could help financially with tickets/merchandise). If UND loses one of the major draws they have every year to a conference with Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan that they themselves could have joined it could cause problems with a lot of fans. It can make casual fans start to lose some interest. On the contrary, you would likely see interest among those many casual fans skyrocket with Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State and Notre Dame coming to Grand Forks every year. Those big names may not necessarily mean a ton to the UND hockey die hards, but to the larger majority of casual UND hockey fans it can make a difference because they like to see their supposed "small" school in Grand Forks competing with the large, top level universities. 

I still think it's a pretty big stretch to think UMD leaving would truly have any impact on UND, basically at all. I think you may be overestimating the rivalry. It's a good one, but really no different than St. Cloud or Omaha for that matter.

I agree that the casual fan would be more excited about the Big 10 matchups over the NCHC ones.

 

[Big Green]

9 minutes ago, GFG said:

My bad, I misinterpreted your comment a bit. This isn't as much about financial matters at it is interest (which could help financially with tickets/merchandise). If UND loses one of the major draws they have every year to a conference with Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan that they themselves could have joined it could cause problems with a lot of fans. It can make casual fans start to lose some interest. On the contrary, you would likely see interest among those many casual fans skyrocket with Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State and Notre Dame coming to Grand Forks every year. Those big names may not necessarily mean a ton to the UND hockey die hards, but to the larger majority of casual UND hockey fans it can make a difference because they like to see their supposed "small" school in Grand Forks competing with the large, top level universities. 

I think the Casual fan goes to be at the REA.  Die hard fan is there to see UND no matter who they play.  All about the TV Money IMO.

 

[AJS]

2 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

One row at a time, if President Kennedy chose which team UND would rather play every year, which would it be?

B1G                    vs                        NCHC

MN                                                 Mn Duluth

Wis                                                 Denver

Mich                                               Omaha

Mich St                                           St. Cloud

Ohio St                                           W Mich

Penn St                                          Miami Oh

Notre Dame                                   Col C

Every selection could possible be in the left column.

The 7 teams on the left had higher average attendance last season than the 7 on the right, by nearly something like 1,800. 

 

[jdub27]

26 minutes ago, Cratter said:

What financial incentives do the NCHC give? There's no revenue sharing.

Are you sure about that? UND's financials show conference distributions for men's hockey.

 

24 minutes ago, GFG said:

Notre Dame and Johns Hopkins get no financial incentives because they wanted to keep their primary media contracts in return for no financial incentives from the B1G. If UND lets the B1G have primary media rights they can get revenue share from the B1G

Until a dollar amount is put on that revenue share, I'm skeptical. B1G hockey is a time-slot filler for the B1G Network, not a money maker. How much money are the other schools (especially those that don't have hockey) willing to give up to add an affiliate member that doesn't do anything to move the needle for the conference as a whole, thus adding value to the TV contract? Like I've stated from the beginning, the guarantee of a revenue share and guaranteed future affiliation regardless of other circumstances are the two things that have to make sense for UND to consider the deal. If those two things are in place, then it makes sense from UND's point of view. Without both of them, I don't see it making sense.

[cowboys5xsbs]

9 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Are you sure about that? UND's financials show conference distributions for men's hockey.

 

Until a dollar amount is put on that revenue share, I'm skeptical. B1G hockey is a time-slot filler for the B1G Network, not a money maker. How much money are the other schools (especially those that don't have hockey) willing to give up to add an affiliate member that doesn't do anything to move the needle for the conference as a whole, thus adding value to the TV contract? Like I've stated from the beginning, the guarantee of a revenue share and guaranteed future affiliation regardless of other circumstances are the two things that have to make sense for UND to consider the deal. If those two things are in place, then it makes sense from UND's point of view. Without both of them, I don't see it making sense.

See this is debatable,  the only reason they would come knocking on UND's door is because they believe we will move the needle for the conference and bring in more ticket sales and eyeballs for the away games.  I mean look at the Minnesota game it was probably their biggest regular season game of the year.  

[GFG]

5 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Like I've stated from the beginning, the guarantee of a revenue share and guaranteed future affiliation regardless of other circumstances are the two things that have to make sense for UND to consider the deal. If those two things are in place, then it makes sense from UND's point of view. Without both of them, I don't see it making sense.

I completely agree with that. This move can be beneficial to both parties and I think they'd find a way to make it work for both sides. The B1G clearly knows how to do the business side of things. If the B1G wants UND then UND will get a fair offer.

[Blackheart]

4 minutes ago, cowboys5xsbs said:

See this is debatable,  the only reason they would come knocking on UND's door is because they believe we will move the needle for the conference and bring in more ticket sales and eyeballs for the away games.  I mean look at the Minnesota game it was probably their biggest regular season game of the year.  

Yeah,..and there will still a ton of empty seats at the Friday night game.  How pissed off are the Minny fans about being in the B1G for hockey?

[GFG]

1 minute ago, cowboys5xsbs said:

See this is debatable,  the only reason they would come knocking on UND's door is because they believe we will move the needle for the conference and bring in more ticket sales and eyeballs for the away games.  I mean look at the Minnesota game it was probably their biggest regular season game of the year.  

It was. And it was definitely the best atmosphere of the year. Surprisingly I think PSU was #2. UND is a big draw in the college hockey world. The hockey schools know that and want them in. 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

1 minute ago, Blackheart said:

Yeah,..and there will still a ton of empty seats at the Friday night game.  How pissed off are the Minny fans about being in the B1G for hockey?

And yet, people want us to join this conference where hockey comes(at best) 3rd for every school in the conference. I'll take the NCHC and its proven track record for producing successful teams every day of the week.

[GFG]

1 minute ago, Blackheart said:

Yeah,..and there will still a ton of empty seats at the Friday night game.  How pissed off are the Minny fans about being in the B1G for hockey?

Those tickets are sold. Pretty much all tickets have been the last few years. People have tickets and don't show up for whatever reason. It's stupid because prices stay high since the tickets are "sold". That's why Minnesota started selling $10 standing room tickets the week of the games towards the end of last season. So people that wanted to go could buy them and use the seats

[The Sicatoka]

55 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

... guarantee of continued affiliation down the road (say if another B1G starts hockey) ... 

You know, that's a good point. UND risks getting kicked to the curb later on. That's not good.

So, I'm adding it to my list of things to negotiate should the opportunity arise. 
- UND conf home games must be Fri/Sat nights with current game times unless UND (and UND alone) changes it 
- media rights 
- "ejection" fee --> UND should have to pay < number > if they choose to leave; however, UND should say you owe us < number > if you try to eject us
- NCHC exit fees
- revenue sharing 
 

[The Sicatoka]

26 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Are you sure about that? UND's financials show conference distributions for men's hockey.

Is that NCAA tourney/Frozen Four distribution money? Aren't those dollars are normally distributed by conference, not school. 

[farce poobah]

Not understanding the internal Big Ten politics here, so welcome thoughts from those that do...

Is it realistic for Omaha to be dangled as a competing possibility?   I would think Nebraska U would say no and get their way (the same way that they squashed UNO football and wrestling).

And Is it realistic for UMD to be dangled as a competing possibility? In the U of M system, would UMD entering be a threat to U Minnesota?

In either scenario, how would the league's voting balance be affected since there's now two schools from Minnesota / Nebraska voting in lockstep on things?

[The Sicatoka]

farce, I see UMD or UNO as noise, leverage, pressure, on UND should an offer come. --> "Take it or we'll ... " 

I just don't see a "hyphen" (UM-D or UN-O) getting in with Big Brother. 

[jdub27]

9 minutes ago, cowboys5xsbs said:

See this is debatable,  the only reason they would come knocking on UND's door is because they believe we will move the needle for the conference and bring in more ticket sales and eyeballs for the away games.  I mean look at the Minnesota game it was probably their biggest regular season game of the year.  

Hockey has little to no bearing on the TV contract/revenues that the B1G schools get from the B1G Network, but that is where any money that UND gets would have to come from. There are 8 schools who don't play hockey and plus I really don't think UND is going to bring a huge amount of fans to Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State or Ohio State. I'm not saying its not possible and the original post even states it is an uphill battle, but you're going to have to convince over half the conference to give up some of their money regardless of how small of the amount is, relatively speaking.

 

11 minutes ago, GFG said:

I completely agree with that. This move can be beneficial to both parties and I think they'd find a way to make it work for both sides. The B1G clearly knows how to do the business side of things. If the B1G wants UND then UND will get a fair offer.

They very well may, and it needs to benefit both sides. I just see it as a hard sell to 8 out of 14 schools that it doesn't benefit at all plus a few more that will see minimal benefit.

 

Just now, The Sicatoka said:

Is that NCAA tourney/Frozen Four distribution money? Aren't those dollars are normally distributed by conference, not school. 

It is broken out separately from NCAA distributions, which also shows money directly attributed to men's hockey.

[GFG]

1 minute ago, farce poobah said:

Not understanding the internal Big Ten politics here, so welcome thoughts from those that do...

Is it realistic for Omaha to be dangled as a competing possibility?   I would think Nebraska U would say no and get their way (the same way that they squashed UNO football and wrestling).

And Is it realistic for UMD to be dangled as a competing possibility? In the U of M system, would UMD entering be a threat to U Minnesota?

In either scenario, how would the league's voting balance be affected since there's now two schools from Minnesota / Nebraska voting in lockstep on things?

Omaha hockey would be no threat to Nebraska athletics. Nebraska isn't adding hockey. In the end, I don't see why they wouldn't allow those schools in. It's pretty easy for them to claim that those 2 schools are part of the school system of current B1G universities. 

[GFG]

1 minute ago, The Sicatoka said:

farce, I see UMD or UNO as noise, leverage, pressure, on UND should an offer come. --> "Take it or we'll ... " 

I just don't see a "hyphen" (UM-D or UN-O) getting in with Big Brother. 

I don't either, but if it comes down to UND saying no I guess UMD wouldn't be the worst option.

[Yote 53]

I don't see anyway possible the Mighty UN-L, aka. Big Red, would be willing to share any sort of Big Ten spotlight with UNO, aka. Lil Bro.  No way, no how Lincoln allows that to happen.  UN-L would start a program first before they allow UNO to share the BIG spotlight.

I am still not convinced UN-L and/or Iowa are not starting programs.  Building a 6,000 seat arena in IC/Coralville for the fun of it?  Sure.