Legal question ?

[fightingsioux4life]

You've been zoned in on that one for a while now. You know something we don't?

I think it's just the example he likes to use for this topic. It also is the stupid name he hates the most. My favorite love-to-hate name is "Green and White".

[darell1976]

Some seem to be arguing that any new nickname would be better than having none - I disagree, I think it depends entirely on what the new nickname choices will be. I would be satisfied if after the list of choices has been decided upon that "continue remaining only as the University of North Dakota" is added to it. Of course for that to be meaningful, those voting on it would have to be a suitably wide cross section of those with real interest in UND and its athletic programs. I fear that will not be the case - I suspect President Kelley will choose a voting populace that is sure to give him exactly the name he wants, and that there will be no real "choices" - which is to say that a safe majority of those that will be allowed to vote on the issue will be vastly more concerned with confirming their PC credentials than with what is truly in the best interests of UND and its athletic programs.

Won't happen, UND will have a new nickname, this will be the last year of just being known as North Dakota, Next year it will be North Dakota (enter nickname here).

[jdub27]

I think it's just the example he likes to use for this topic. It also is the stupid name he hates the most. My favorite love-to-hate name is "Green and White".

People (particularly sportswriters) have been calling UND that longer than you or I have been alive. Unfortunately for you, it won't go away with a new nickname. But the good news is, it also won't end up being the new nickname either.

[darell1976]

I think it's just the example he likes to use for this topic. It also is the stupid name he hates the most. My favorite love-to-hate name is "Green and White".

Dartmouth has Big Green, and North Texas has Mean Green. Green and White is available. The things that will be up for debate is picking a name that will sell merchandise, have a mascot walking around the stadium, and unfortunately is PC (complies with NCAA rules).

[fightingsioux4life]

People (particularly sportswriters) have been calling UND that longer than you or I have been alive. Unfortunately for you, it won't go away with a new nickname. But the good news is, it also won't end up being the new nickname either.

I keep hearing this whole "Green and White has been used for years" statement, but when we used the Fighting Sioux name, people called us that, not "Green and White". The fight song was titled "Fight on Sioux", not "Fight on Green and White". The only example anyone was able to come up with was a Dean Blais quote after a game at Anchorage one year. And since it was a direct quote, that really doesn't count. If someone has the time (which I don't), maybe they could find better examples of this.

[jdub27]

I keep hearing this whole "Green and White has been used for years" statement, but when we used the Fighting Sioux name, people called us that, not "Green and White". The fight song was titled "Fight on Sioux", not "Fight on Green and White". The only example anyone was able to come up with was a Dean Blais quote after a game at Anchorage one year. And since it was a direct quote, that really doesn't count. If someone has the time (which I don't), maybe they could find better examples of this.

If you read newspaper stories, they have referred to UND as the Green and White for decades. Announcers would make the same comments as well. Referring to a team the same way through the course of an article/store or game gets monotonous.

[fightingsioux4life]

Dartmouth has Big Green, and North Texas has Mean Green. Green and White is available. The things that will be up for debate is picking a name that will sell merchandise, have a mascot walking around the stadium, and unfortunately is PC (complies with NCAA rules).

I disagree with you on this. "Green and White" belongs in the same category as "Sun Dogs", "Spirit" and "Flames". How much merchandise will we sell if our official name is "Green and White"? It's not a distinct enough brand; it's too similar to North Texas and Dartmouth. We need something that sets us apart and gives us a distinct identity. "Green and White" doesn't cut it.

[fightingsioux4life]

If you read newspaper stories, they have referred to UND as the Green and White for decades. Announcers would make the same comments as well. Referring to a team the same way through the course of an article/store or game gets monotonous.

I have been reading news stories about UND athletics for most of my life and I never saw Green and White until the Sioux name and logo were retired (I think Mike Jacobs enjoyed that a little too much, but that's another topic). Like I said, someone come up with examples. Maybe I was blind to it all those years; I just don't recall our colors being used all that much.

[darell1976]

I disagree with you on this. "Green and White" belongs in the same category as "Sun Dogs", "Spirit" and "Flames". How much merchandise will we sell if our official name is "Green and White"? It's not a distinct enough brand; it's too similar to North Texas and Dartmouth. We need something that sets us apart and gives us a distinct identity. "Green and White" doesn't cut it.

I agree Green and White will sell as much merchandise as what UND has now. I am sure UND can't be making any money or not much on merchandise as they were as the Fighting Sioux. Sun Dogs is fine if GF got a baseball team, but not for UND. UND needs to pick a name related to the school like using the aerospace. Flyers is used by Dayton, but something with planes or drones etc.

[darell1976]

I have been reading news stories about UND athletics for most of my life and I never saw Green and White until the Sioux name and logo were retired (I think Mike Jacobs enjoyed that a little too much, but that's another topic). Like I said, someone come up with examples. Maybe I was blind to it all those years; I just don't recall our colors being used all that much.

I remember games at Memorial with the cheerleaders cheering...."Green and White fight, fight, fight".

[fightingsioux4life]

I remember games at Memorial with the cheerleaders cheering...."Green and White fight, fight, fight".

I was only talking about use in the media (print and electronic). I know cheerleaders used it from time to time (like Michigan's "Go Blue!" cheer) and that doesn't bother me. For some reason, it just bugs the heck out of me to have sportswriters use it.

[darell1976]

I was only talking about use in the media (print and electronic). I know cheerleaders used it from time to time (like Michigan's "Go Blue!" cheer) and that doesn't bother me. For some reason, it just bugs the heck out of me to have sportswriters use it.

As for the media I have only heard it during the whole nickname phase either during the retiring of the name or just lately, I can't recall it being used in print prior to 2005 (when the whole nickname issue started by the NCAA).

[Big A HG]

Every school and team in the country gets called by their colors.  That's not a nickname, it's just an alternative to repeatedly saying UND/Sioux/North Dakota all game or in write-ups.

[90siouxfan]

I would suspect a reference to our winter weather, blech!  What is latin for  "you know who"?

[UNDBIZ]

Separate legal question.  Anybody seen these?  http://www.newsioux.com/ 

I'd think the little tongue sticking out isn't enough to avoid trademark infringement.....

[SWSiouxMN]

Separate legal question.  Anybody seen these?  http://www.newsioux.com/ 

I'd think the little tongue sticking out isn't enough to avoid trademark infringement.....

Yeah, I saw it the other day on my facebook feed.

My first question that popped in my head was, how is this legal? 

[petey23]

Yeah, I saw it the other day on my facebook feed.

My first question that popped in my head was, how is this legal? 

These guys might have a real bad day unless they are just lucky enough to get a cease and desist letter.

Hopefully they are producing it on their own but I doubt it since they wouldn't be set up directly with the vendors who provide the shirts and hoods. So probably going to be an embroidery and screen print shop that will get cracked as well.

How much trouble does a seller face for selling unlicensed gear?

Copyright and trademark infringements involve majorfines and possible jail time. A copyright violation, which involves the unlawful use of artistic or written work, carries a penalty of up to $150,000 per infringed work if the misconduct was willful and intentional. Likewise, a trademark violation involving the unlawful use of a word, name, symbol or device carries civil penalties matching the extent of the infringement, which hinges on whether the infringement is likely to cause consumer confusion.

Historically, courts have applied any of the following factors to decide if a reasonable consumer would be confused by the use of a certain logo or likeness:

• Strength of the trademark: Is it well known and recognized?
• Proximity of the fake goods to the real merchandise
• Similarity of the trademark to the knockoff
• Evidence of actual confusion by shoppers
• Marketing channels used by the alleged infringer
• Degree of scrutiny likely to be exercised by the consumer over whether the item is infringing on trademark rights
• Infringer’s intentions when creating the item, and
• Likelihood of the expansion of product lines.

How close is too close?

In many instances, a seller may simply combine two or three colors without using a logo and sell the item as a “Denver Broncos knit hat” or “Baltimore Ravens custom-made headband.” In these examples, the seller has merely united orange with blue or purple with black to create a product likely to sell with a certain fan base. Is this illegal?

It depends. Would a reasonably informed shopper be confused by the validity of this product? Could a shopper aiming to purchase licensed, official gear be diverted by this product? Blatant use of a logo or slogan is a clear violation. Use of a full team name is also a clear violation. Use of a team name with colors is unlawful; however, use of colors alone without any actual mention of the team may be acceptable, provided the seller is not actually touting the product with the team’s name attached. Therefore, the above examples would probably be an unlawful use of the team’s name for commercial gain.

Keep in mind that the law permits you to create, customize and cavort in your homemade team gear to your heart’s content  as long as you don’t make a profit. So, while your Etsy enterprise is probably a bad idea, your newborn baby won’t face an injunction for wearing his custom-made team onesie to the next neighborhood barbeque.

Looks like they may have taken steps to cover their tracks as far as their online presence goes.

 

newsioux.com registry whois

Updated 1 second ago - Refresh

Domain Name: NEWSIOUX.COM
Registrar: GOOGLE INC.
Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 895
Whois Server: whois.rrpproxy.net
Referral URL: http://domains.google.com
Name Server: NS1.BLUEHOST.COM
Name Server: NS2.BLUEHOST.COM
Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Updated Date: 16-sep-2015
Creation Date: 07-aug-2015
Expiration Date: 07-aug-2016

newsioux.com registrar whois

Updated 1 second ago

Domain Name: newsioux.com
Registry Domain ID: 1951751673_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.rrpproxy.net
Registrar URL: https://domains.google.com/
Updated Date: 2015-09-16T16:04:26.0Z
Creation Date: 2015-08-07T20:49:00.0Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2016-08-07T20:49:00.0Z
Registrar: Google Inc.
Registrar IANA ID: 895
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: registrar-abuse[at]google.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.877-237-6466
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: On behalf of newsioux.com OWNER
Registrant Organization: c/o whoisproxy.com Ltd.
Registrant Street: Plaza Level,41 Shortland Street
Registrant City: Auckland
Registrant State/Province:
Registrant Postal Code: 1010
Registrant Country: NZ
Registrant Phone: +64.48319528
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: @newsioux.com.whoisproxy.org
Registry Admin ID:
Admin Name: On behalf of newsioux.com ADMIN
Admin Organization: c/o whoisproxy.com Ltd.
Admin Street: Plaza Level,41 Shortland Street
Admin City: Auckland
Admin State/Province:
Admin Postal Code: 1010
Admin Country: NZ
Admin Phone: +64.48319528
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax:
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email: @newsioux.com.whoisproxy.org
Registry Tech ID:
Tech Name: On behalf of newsioux.com TECH
Tech Organization: c/o whoisproxy.com Ltd.
Tech Street: Plaza Level,41 Shortland Street
Tech City: Auckland
Tech Postal Code: 1010
Tech State/Province:
Tech Country: NZ
Tech Phone: +64.48319528
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax:
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email: @newsioux.com.whoisproxy.org
Name Server: ns1.bluehost.com
Name Server: ns2.bluehost.com
DNSSEC: unsigned
Whoisprivacy: 1
URL of the ICANN WHOIS Data Problem Reporting System: http://wdprs.internic.net/
>>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2015-09-24T21:08:24.0Z <<<

Registry Billing ID:
Billing Name: On behalf of newsioux.com BILLING
Billing Organization: c/o whoisproxy.com Ltd.
Billing Street: Plaza Level,41 Shortland Street
Billing City: Auckland
Billing State/Province:
Billing Postal Code: 1010
Billing Country: NZ
Billing Phone: +64.48319528
Billing Phone Ext:
Billing Fax:
Billing Fax Ext:
Billing Email: @newsioux.com.whoisproxy.org

 

[ericpnelson]

I know parodies are an exception to this law, but I'm not sure I see it.

[Fetch]

Nothing there I don't have plenty of but I hope they find / found a loophole

[petey23]

It comes down to intent and substantial similarity.

[The Sicatoka]

It comes down to intent and substantial similarity.

I see "cease and desist" in someone's future. 

[petey23]

I see "cease and desist" in someone's future. 

That would be their best result.

 

 

 

[Siouxphan27]

So how does this work-  does UND have to pay lawyers to defend the logo we cannot use?  

[CMSioux]

UND has lawyers on staff they don't have to hire lawyers to defend the logo. If you like this logo you better buy it now as it will be going away soon - another test of infringement is when you are obviously trying to link yourself to an organization to sell your goods. Siouxpride.com got a letter because one of the designs was a little too linked to hockey - which has nothing to do with native american clothing - that design is now a collectors item. 

Personally I don't see that design as a way to respectfully preserve the name or the logo. 

[UNDBIZ]

They were selling at the ndsu game out of a van. I'd like to see them made an example. They fully know what they're doing and they defaced a beautiful logo in an attempt at being cute.