UND and the Big Sky could go FBS

[jdub27]

Just to balance both sides, Idaho was, at least in the last month, looking for other avenues and may or may not be done pursuing them. It is zero secret there is a void in the western half of the US for another mid-level football conference. How, when or if that is filled is obviously still up in the air and likely will be for a while. However, for right now I fully believe Idaho belongs at the FCS level and should stay there unless there is some movement by the P5.

 

[the green team]

The only thing that I tend to be wary of when I hear news of a conference getting larger at our level and Fullerton has said it himself, when conferences get too big that is when they fracture.   For example the WAC many years ago, many schools left to form the Mountain West etc...   Not saying there will be, but sometimes when things get to a certain size, various members will be less than enthusiastic about some of the things that occur because of it.  Maybe some schools get frustrated because they only get Montana or Weber State on the schedule once a year instead of twice in basketball. Not getting a home game, with the perceived big dogs can be a big factor for a lot of schools because that may be one of their big attendance games of the year.   The same could happen with football, where various psuedo rivalries that developed when the league was much smaller no longer are regularly scheduled can wear on both fan bases and athletic departments.  Not saying something catastrophic will occur  and if it did I don't envision anything for several years down the road but it's best to constantly have the (little birds) out. (Sorry Game of Thrones reference)  Because history has at least shown that when conferences get to be on the larger end of the spectrum...things can and do happen.

[SiouxVolley]

1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:

There's probably some sort of "out" clause in the event of a change of status of one of the parties. 

Show the contracts, which Idaho hasn't done.

LSU, Florida, and Penn St don't want to play an FCS team from Idaho when they can get cheaper FCS games locally.

[The Sicatoka]

30 minutes ago, the green team said:

The only thing that I tend to be wary of when I hear news of a conference getting larger at our level and Fullerton has said it himself, when conferences get too big that is when they fracture.   For example the WAC many years ago, many schools left to form the Mountain West etc...   

Ah yes, the infamous "airport meeting". For those of you not aware of those events, read the History section here. 

[The Sicatoka]

18 hours ago, Cratter said:

In case you missed it, Idaho Vandals have a press conference set for tomorrow. Sources claiming UND will get another Big Sky football conference mate.

14 football playing schools.

Can anyone find this press conference online? I'm looking, but no success. 

[UNDColorado]

20 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Can anyone find this press conference online? I'm looking, but no success. 

Here is what I found: https://www.uidaho.edu/news/ui-live

 

[Cratter]

26 minutes ago, UNDColorado said:

Here is what I found: https://www.uidaho.edu/news/ui-live

 

Thanks for the link. They start Big Sky play in two years.

[UNDColorado]

1 minute ago, Cratter said:

Thanks for the link. They start Big Sky play in two years.

No problem. "working from home" recovering from ACL surgery last Friday. So yeah, I have a lot of time to dig up links lol.

[The Sicatoka]

Official: Idaho to Big Sky
http://missoulian.com/sports/college/big-sky-conference/idaho-confirms-return-to-big-sky-for-football/article_e29c89f3-72e6-5f1f-861f-a9fc10ff02f9.html

[zonadub]

New Mexico State on the clock ?

[darell1976]

1 hour ago, zonadub said:

New Mexico State on the clock ?

If they got into the BSC would they try to push us out as we are an outsider and odd teams isn't good.

[UNDBIZ]

10 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

If they got into the BSC would they try to push us out as we are an outsider and odd teams isn't good.

I'd imagine they're of a similar opinion as Idaho.

[UNDBIZ]

4 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Show the contracts, which Idaho hasn't done.

LSU, Florida, and Penn St don't want to play an FCS team from Idaho when they can get cheaper FCS games locally.

Wouldn't that be up to LSU, Florida, and Penn St to break the contract then?  Free money for Idaho.

[The Sicatoka]

27 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Wouldn't that be up to LSU, Florida, and Penn St to break the contract then?  Free money for Idaho.

It's all about the contract language. We don't know so we don't know. 

[SiouxVolley]

24 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Wouldn't that be up to LSU, Florida, and Penn St to break the contract then?  Free money for Idaho.

Those contracts stipulate that Idaho must be an FBS team.  If it's nkt, there would be penalties that Idaho has to pay.

Most P5 teams want FCS teams that are within a state or two, as the visitors can bus and therefore be given less money.  Those teams are effectively paying for an FBS win which Idaho says it can't deliver after 2017.

Most of those contracts can not be reduced to FCS games, as some already have an FCS game scheduled or is no longer allowed by the conference.  In addition, Idaho would WL record would be filled with FBS losses, which is not good for FCS unless they continue to reward good losses.

[The Sicatoka]

Quote

Idaho must shed 22 scholarships – dropping from 85 to 63 – during the move to the FCS. Should Idaho remain above the limit come 2018, the school would be ineligible for postseason play.

Say Idaho decided to play in the BSC but not go down to 63 (stay at 85). We see they'll be ineligible for the FCS playoffs; however, would it be worth it (guarantees) if they still counted as an FBS (85 scholarship) school on P5/G5 schedules? 

Disclaimer: I'm not sure what the NCAA would/could do if Idaho didn't drop down to 63 other than post season ineligibility. Anyone know? Could the NCAA declare them "FCS" even with 85 scholarships? .... This might require popcorn. 

[SiouxVolley]

3 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Say Idaho decided to play in the BSC but not go down to 63 (stay at 85). We see they'll be ineligible for the FCS playoffs; however, would it be worth it (guarantees) if they still counted as an FBS (85 scholarship) school on P5/G5 schedules? 

Disclaimer: I'm not sure what the NCAA would/could do if Idaho didn't drop down to 63 other than post season ineligibility. Anyone know? Could the NCAA declare them "FCS" even with 85 scholarships? .... This might require popcorn. 

Idaho won't count as an FBS team when it's schedule doesn't meet the FBS requirements.  Idaho would be shooting itself in the foot if it kept more than 63 and played a predominantly FCS schedule, as they would be banned from playoffs.

There is a lot of talk how Idaho players are going to transfer if this goes through.

[Cratter]

Also talk idaho only has 8 more schollys than fcs max currently.

[The Sicatoka]

2 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Idaho won't count as an FBS team when it's schedule doesn't meet the FBS requirements.

There's what I was forgetting about. 

[The Sicatoka]

Just now, Cratter said:

Also talk idaho only has 8 more schollys than fcs max currently.

To be FBS you must average 90% of the FBS limit of 85. That means Idaho must average 76.5 or not count as an FBS team to opponents. That's 13.5 more than the FCS (63) max. 

[UND1983]

Idaho already said they will be down to 63 by 2018 to be playoff eligible.

[jdub27]

2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

It's all about the contract language. We don't know so we don't know. 

Turns out someone was already on that. Looks like the majority don't have any sort of FBS/FCS stipulation and there are a few that leave it up to interpretation on conference scheduling (outside of LSU, who definitely accounted for it)

Quote

at Fresno State (2018)
Second game of a home-and-home series. No stipulation regarding a drop to FCS. $750,000 cancellation fee.

vs. Wyoming (2018-19)
First game of a home-and-home series (second in 2019). No stipulation regarding a drop to FCS. $500,000 cancellation fee per game.

at Northern Illinois (2018)
Copy of contract not obtained.

at Florida (2018)
No stipulation regarding a drop to FCS. Damages of $1.2 million for breach of contract.

at Penn State (2019)
No stipulation regarding a drop to FCS. Damages of $1.45 million for breach of contract. Contract states that either school may cancel due to a change in scheduling requirements that includes “without limitation, changes in the number of conference games to be played, or changes resulting from the addition or subtraction of conference members.”

at San Jose State (2019-23)
First game of a four-game series (2019-23). $1 million cancellation fee per game. Upon Idaho signing the contract, an amendment was added to include the following:

In the event any game to be played hereunder is canceled or rescheduled as a result of a change in the scheduling requirements of either party’s member conference, neither party shall be responsible to the other for any loss or damage resulting from such change. For purposes of this paragraph, a change in scheduling requirements shall include, without limitation, changes in the number of conference games to be played, or changes resulting from the addition or subtraction of conference members.

at Temple (2020)
Second game of a home-and-home series that started in 2013 in Moscow. $500,000 cancellation fee or $1 million if less than 365 days before the date of the game. Contract does have this stipulation:

In the event the Game is canceled or rescheduled as a result of a change in the scheduling requirements of either Party’s member conference, neither party shall be responsible to the other for any loss or damages resulting from such change. For purposes of this paragraph, a change in scheduling requirements shall include, without limitation, changes in the number of conference games to be played, changes from the addition or subtraction of conference members, or any other changes in conference schedules. If either Party moves from its current conference to another conference within two years following the execution of this Agreement, the Parties will in good faith attempt to reconcile any required scheduling changes that may occur as a result of such a move.

at LSU (2020)
Contract calls for LSU to pay Idaho a $1.4 million guarantee. Game cancellation fees are $700,000 (24 months or more from the date of the game); $950,000 (12 months or more, but less than 24 months from the date of the game); $1.2 million (Less than 12 months from the date of the game). Contract included the following stipulation:

It is understood and agreed by and between the parties here to that this Agreement is conditioned upon the participants (HOME TEAM and VISITING TEAM) being a Division 1A member of the NCAA at least twenty-four (24) months prior to the date the game is scheduled, and being a Division 1A member at the time the game is played. In the event either team fails to maintain Division 1A membership, the other team has the right to cancel the game without penalty upon reasonable notice to the other party.

at Indiana (2021 & 2022)
Guarantee to Idaho is $1.2 million for the game in 2021 and $1.3 million for the game in 2022. If Idaho cancels, they must pay IU $1 million (if notified two years before date of scheduled game) or $1.3 million (if notified less than two years before date of scheduled game). The contract does state the following regarding termination:

This Agreement may be terminated under the following conditions:
A. By mutual consent of both Parties, in writing.
B. By either party if that party has formally dropped NCAA participation in the sport identified in this Agreement.

at Old Dominion (2022)
Copy of contract not obtained.

vs. Nevada (2021 or 2022)
Game was originally scheduled for 2015 before being pushed back to 2019, and now 2021 or 2022. No stipulation regarding a drop to FCS. Contract includes the following regarding cancellation:

If either party fails to comply with the terms and conditions of this contract by unilaterally canceling the agreement to play the game, that party shall pay to the other the sum of Five Hundred Thousand Dollars ($500,000.00) as liquidated damages and not a penalty. If cancellation is by mutual consent, this contract shall be null and void.

 

[Cratter]

 brilliant idea to sign a bunch of years ahead FBS games getting much bigger paychecks and then dropped to FCS. Well played.

[SiouxVolley]

34 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Turns out someone was already on that. Looks like the majority don't have any sort of FBS/FCS stipulation and there are a few that leave it up to interpretation on conference scheduling (outside of LSU, who definitely accounted for it)

 

That why the whole moving to FCS is a ruse of a PR ploy.  Idaho can't afford to move down to FCS with those contracts.  The Indiana one was just signed recently.  Something is up with the NCAA rule changes.  Emmert knows Idaho's situation well since his previous job was at Washington, and he is rumored to want to help them.

[The Sicatoka]

31 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

The Indiana one was just signed recently.  

Indiana, like of the "we don't play FCS teams any more" Big Ten?