UND and the Big Sky could go FBS

[UND1983]

Actually... The logical thing to do would be looking at average number of fans... None of und's sports they share with ndsu are close to averaging 100% capacity anyway... So your building argument doesn't hold water

You have really taken a nasty tone on here lately. You used to contribute neutral a bit. True colors?

[jdub27]

Actually... The logical thing to do would be looking at average number of fans... None of und's sports they share with ndsu are close to averaging 100% capacity anyway... So your building argument doesn't hold water

I guess I would want to leave out a niche sport that produces more revenue than your number one sport does as well if I were you.

[CMSioux]

You have really taken a nasty tone on here lately. You used to contribute neutral a bit. True colors?

Actually he has proudly posted numerous times that he hates UND and wishes they would lose every game. But he's like a stray dog he really has no home so he just keeps coming back as long as someone will throw him a bone now and then.

[nd1sufan]

Please explain the prerequisite for joining the FBS? NC? Nope. Big city, nope. A conference invite...ding ding there it is.

Actually, a prerequisite for FBS football is a stadium large enough to hold and to average 15,000 fans for a certain number of years. That is something that is not attainable at UND right now. However, NDSU actually qualifies right now. Unless Ralph Engelstad rises from the grave and they somehow convince him to build a new stadium they can play hockey and football in, it isn't happening at UND.

[Siouxperfan7]

Stop replying to all the Bison trolls who make every thread on this site an NDSU vs UND argument. If we ignore them enough, maybe they will go away. If you are a bison fan, talk about the topic being discussed. If you want to talk about NDSU, Bisonville is just a click away. Thanks. Signed every member of Siouxsports.com.

[The Sicatoka]

Actually, a prerequisite for FBS football is a stadium large enough to hold and to average 15,000 fans for a certain number of years. That is something that is not attainable at UND right now. However, NDSU actually qualifies right now.

Partial credit. Going sentence by sentence ...

You have to average 15k attendance (actual or ticket sold) once every two years. You are allowed to use a different stadium to count as one of your "home" games (and thus toward your attendance numbers).

Not attainable? Things as they are now always will be this way? Alerus can't be modified? UND attendance can't improve?

No, NDSU does not qualify for FBS right now. The attendance aspect? Yes. The bona fide* invitation from an FBS conference? Not so much.

*If you've read the NCAA manual on the subject you'll know I'm quoting.

[Smoggy]

You have really taken a nasty tone on here lately. You used to contribute neutral a bit. True colors?

I thought johnny had promised to never come back? I can't remember why he was leaving the board tho.

[darell1976]

Actually, a prerequisite for FBS football is a stadium large enough to hold and to average 15,000 fans for a certain number of years. That is something that is not attainable at UND right now. However, NDSU actually qualifies right now. Unless Ralph Engelstad rises from the grave and they somehow convince him to build a new stadium they can play hockey and football in, it isn't happening at UND.

Most MAC teams can't reach 15,000, the same with Idaho.

[SIOUXFAN97]

Please explain the prerequisite for joining the FBS? NC? Nope. Big city, nope. A conference invite...ding ding there it is.

most sane thing posted on here...thank you

[JohnboyND7]

I thought johnny had promised to never come back? I can't remember why he was leaving the board tho.

I believe I promised if Notre Dame beat USC or something I would leave for a month or so until my foot surgery.

Which I did...

[JohnboyND7]

most sane thing posted on here...thank you

First time anyone has ever said that to _arell

[darell1976]

First time anyone has ever said that to _arell

So without putting a D in my name you saying I don't have a defense? Or can't you find the D on the keyboard?

[darell1976]

Actually, a prerequisite for FBS football is a stadium large enough to hold and to average 15,000 fans for a certain number of years. That is something that is not attainable at UND right now. However, NDSU actually qualifies right now. Unless Ralph Engelstad rises from the grave and they somehow convince him to build a new stadium they can play hockey and football in, it isn't happening at UND.

2013: Eastern Michigan 4,051

2012: Eastern Michigan 3923

2011: Eastern Michigan 4267

2010: Eastern Michigan 15,885

2009: Eastern Michigan 5016

You tell me 15,000 people actually showed up at EMU in 2010?

Oh wait here is how they did it:

http://www.annarbor.com/news/eastern-michigan-university-struggles-to-increase-football-attendance/

In fact, for the past decade EMU has kept its FBS status by selling tens of thousands of tickets to Pepsi —one of the corporate sponsors for the athletic department— during NCAA count years, which are every other year.

Last year, an NCAA count year, average attendance was about 6,400. To reach the 15,000-attendance level required for an FBS team, EMU sold Pepsi 50,000 tickets at $3 apiece. Tickets are normally sold at $9 apiece. EMU students receive free entry.

EMU also sold tickets to Pepsi in 2008 and 2006. Both years were NCAA count years.

[mksioux]

I'm not going to go back to the other thread and try to find Sioux Volley's theory as to how the Big Sky ends up FBS, but can someone summarize it for me? I know it has something to do with the Sun Belt and the old WAC. Seems extremely far-fetched to me, but I don't mind keeping tabs on the latest crack-pot theories out there.

If an existing FBS conference wants to add schools, why don't they just cherry pick the schools they want rather than inviting an entire conference, particularly when some of the schools in that conference are not close to FBS-ready?

[SiouxVolley]

I'm not going to go back to the other thread and try to find Sioux Volley's theory as to how the Big Sky ends up FBS, but can someone summarize it for me? I know it has something to do with the Sun Belt and the old WAC. Seems extremely far-fetched to me, but I don't mind keeping tabs on the latest crack-pot theories out there.

If an existing FBS conference wants to add schools, why don't they just cherry pick the schools they want rather than inviting an entire conference, particularly when some of the schools in that conference are not close to FBS-ready?

When Idaho and NMSU were left in the WAC, the WAC could have merged with the MVC or the WAC could have added teams from the southeast. Both options were hated by the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt added NMSU and Idaho as affiliate members to rid itself of a competing league: Idaho is only a temporary add. Idaho insisted that it wanted to stay FBS but wanted a regional league of its own. The Sun Belt wants to shed Idaho and leave the relationship gracefully and is willing to grant the Big Sky FBS status, as it wouldn't have another rival league in its footprint. Idaho itself is planning to expand the Kibbie Dome to 26k with cantilevered sections.

Idaho football is contracted through the 2015-16 season to the Sun Belt. There is a two year extension to 2017-18 available. Idaho has contracted FBS games well beyond 2018, indicating that it will stay FBS even though the Big Sky is FCS. To fulfill its contract with Idaho, I believe the Sun Belt will temporarily absorb Big Sky football for two years to allow it to transition to FBS, and then release all the Big Sky teams after they have finished the 2018 seasons and then the Big Sky will be an FBS conference.

So by the spring of 2016, stadium additions are needed at UC Davis, Cal Poly, EWU, and UND. Extra sports are needed at Montana, Montana State, Portland St, and EWU by that date. If those expansions are not under construction by 2016, the Sun Belt isn't required to temporarily add any Big Sky squad, and Idaho will return to FCS and an FCS Big Sky. Having NAU, Idaho St, UNC, Weber St and SUU ready isn't likely and isn't needed.

The Big Sky doesn't normally allow a school to join without adding football. Idaho was an allowed exception because the promise of FBS and the relationship with the Sun Belt.

I have shown that NDSU with the MVFC almost certainly was involved with the WAC and an FBS project. If that WAC / MVC merger had happened, NDSU would have entered last year as an FBS transition school, and would not have been a part of the FCS playoffs.

Instead, UND will be the first and likely only school from the Dakotas to play FBS

[Bison Dan]

When Idaho and NMSU were left in the WAC, the WAC could have merged with the MVC or the WAC could have added teams from the southeast. Both options were hated by the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt added NMSU and Idaho as affiliate members to ride itself of a competing league: Idaho is only a temporary add. Idaho insisted that it wanted to stay FBS but wanted a regional league of its own. The Sun Belt wants to shed Idaho and leave the relationship gracefully and is willing to grant the Big Sky FBS status, as it wouldn't have another rival league in its footprint. Idaho itself is planning to expand the Kibbie Dome to 26k with cantilevered sections.

Idaho is contracted through the 2015-16 to the Sun Belt. There is a two year extension to 2017-18 available. Idaho has contracted FBS games well beyond 2018, indicating that it will stay FBS even though the Big Sky is FCS. To fulfill its contract with Idaho, I believe the Sun Belt will temporarily absorb Big Sky football for two years to allow it to transition to FBS, and then release all the Big Sky teams after they have finished the 2018 seasons and then the Big Sky will be an FBS conference.

So by the spring of 2016, stadium additions are needed at UC Davis, Cal Poly, EWU, and UND. Extra sports are needed at Montana, Montana State, Portland St, and EWU by that date. If those expansions are not under construction by 2016, the Sun Belt isn't required to temporarily add any Big Sky squad, and Idaho will return to FCS and an FCS Big Sky. Having NAU, Idaho St, UNC, Weber St and SUU ready isn't likely and isn't needed.

The Big Sky doesn't normally allow a school to join without adding football. Idaho was an allowed exception because the promise of FBS and the relationship with the Sun Belt.

I have shown that NDSU with the MVFC almost certainly was involved with the WAC and an FBS project. If that WAC / MVC merger had happened, NDSU would have entered last year as an FBS transition school, and would not have been a part of the FCS playoffs.

Instead, UND will be the first and likely only school from the Dakotas to play FBS

Great news. I sincerely hope you go FBS. You posters open up your check books.....

[SiouxVolley]

Great news. I sincerely hope you go FBS. You posters open up your check books.....

Nicest thing you've ever said here.

[CMSioux]

Great news. I sincerely hope you go FBS. You posters open up your check books.....

Unlike in FU-ville - no one here is DEMANDING UND goes FBS - the dream of FU-FBS is brought up ad nasium in just about every comment section of the Fargo Forum - it's like they can't understand - you need to be invited.

[SiouxVolley]

A poster on the csnbbs realignment board found these FCS schools were most likely to be successful with a crack at FBS. They are most like other FBS schools. Thought UC Davis, Portland St, Montana, and Sac St should be listed too. An eight or nine team Big Sky looks like an FBS conference.

Stony Brook

Illinois State

New Hampshire

[gap]

Towson

North Dakota State

Cal Poly

SUNY - Albany

Montana State

North Dakota

[mksioux]

When Idaho and NMSU were left in the WAC, the WAC could have merged with the MVC or the WAC could have added teams from the southeast. Both options were hated by the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt added NMSU and Idaho as affiliate members to ride itself of a competing league: Idaho is only a temporary add. Idaho insisted that it wanted to stay FBS but wanted a regional league of its own. The Sun Belt wants to shed Idaho and leave the relationship gracefully and is willing to grant the Big Sky FBS status, as it wouldn't have another rival league in its footprint. Idaho itself is planning to expand the Kibbie Dome to 26k with cantilevered sections.

Is there anything contractual that makes the Sun Belt exit its relationship with Idaho "gracefully"? Can't they just not renew with Idaho and ship them out on their own?

Idaho football is contracted through the 2015-16 season to the Sun Belt. There is a two year extension to 2017-18 available. Idaho has contracted FBS games well beyond 2018, indicating that it will stay FBS even though the Big Sky is FCS. To fulfill its contract with Idaho, I believe the Sun Belt will temporarily absorb Big Sky football for two years to allow it to transition to FBS, and then release all the Big Sky teams after they have finished the 2018 seasons and then the Big Sky will be an FBS conference.

I have no doubt that Idaho has no intention to go back to FCS football. I don't doubt that they are scheduling FBS beyond their current contract with the Sun Belt. I also don't doubt they have plans for a stadium expansion. But that is a far-cry from the Sun Belt inviting the entirety of the Big Sky conference into its conference. I just can't see that happening, even on a temporary basis.

Perhaps the Sun Belt extends Idaho past 2017-18 season? Or maybe Idaho gets into the Mountain West and abandons the Big Sky entirely? I suspect Idaho is going forward without a definite concrete plan and has multiple options it will be exploring.

Would the NCAA even allow a new FBS conference to form through a temporary merger followed by a split? It seems to me that is just an end-around of forming a new FBS conference. I'm skeptical the NCAA would allow this.

So by the spring of 2016, stadium additions are needed at UC Davis, Cal Poly, EWU, and UND. Extra sports are needed at Montana, Montana State, Portland St, and EWU by that date. If those expansions are not under construction by 2016, the Sun Belt isn't required to temporarily add any Big Sky squad, and Idaho will return to FCS and an FCS Big Sky. Having NAU, Idaho St, UNC, Weber St and SUU ready isn't likely and isn't needed.

I'm confused. Are you saying there is an agreement in place that the Sun Belt will add ALL the Big Sky teams if stadium expansions are underway at the four schools you mentioned above? Why don't the other schools matter?

The Big Sky doesn't normally allow a school to join without adding football. Idaho was an allowed exception because the promise of FBS and the relationship with the Sun Belt.

Or Maybe Idaho was added because they are Idaho. They are a state flagship institution with good academics and a higher profile than most of the existing Big Sky teams, and a former member as well. The Big Sky never had an affiliate for football schools either, but went ahead with that. I doubt a promise of FBS football was necessary for Idaho to get into the Big Sky in their non-football sports.

[darell1976]

When Idaho and NMSU were left in the WAC, the WAC could have merged with the MVC or the WAC could have added teams from the southeast. Both options were hated by the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt added NMSU and Idaho as affiliate members to rid itself of a competing league: Idaho is only a temporary add. Idaho insisted that it wanted to stay FBS but wanted a regional league of its own. The Sun Belt wants to shed Idaho and leave the relationship gracefully and is willing to grant the Big Sky FBS status, as it wouldn't have another rival league in its footprint. Idaho itself is planning to expand the Kibbie Dome to 26k with cantilevered sections.

Idaho football is contracted through the 2015-16 season to the Sun Belt. There is a two year extension to 2017-18 available. Idaho has contracted FBS games well beyond 2018, indicating that it will stay FBS even though the Big Sky is FCS. To fulfill its contract with Idaho, I believe the Sun Belt will temporarily absorb Big Sky football for two years to allow it to transition to FBS, and then release all the Big Sky teams after they have finished the 2018 seasons and then the Big Sky will be an FBS conference.

So by the spring of 2016, stadium additions are needed at UC Davis, Cal Poly, EWU, and UND. Extra sports are needed at Montana, Montana State, Portland St, and EWU by that date. If those expansions are not under construction by 2016, the Sun Belt isn't required to temporarily add any Big Sky squad, and Idaho will return to FCS and an FCS Big Sky. Having NAU, Idaho St, UNC, Weber St and SUU ready isn't likely and isn't needed.

The Big Sky doesn't normally allow a school to join without adding football. Idaho was an allowed exception because the promise of FBS and the relationship with the Sun Belt.

I have shown that NDSU with the MVFC almost certainly was involved with the WAC and an FBS project. If that WAC / MVC merger had happened, NDSU would have entered last year as an FBS transition school, and would not have been a part of the FCS playoffs.

Instead, UND will be the first and likely only school from the Dakotas to play FBS

I can't see the Alerus adding seats to accomodate this....best bet is to get the remodel of Memorial Stadium going.

[mksioux]

I can't see the Alerus adding seats to accomodate this....best bet is to get the remodel of Memorial Stadium going.

I can't see stadium expansions underway by 2016 at any of the four schools Sioux Volley cited. That's just not enough time.

[darell1976]

I can't see stadium expansions underway by 2016 at any of the four schools Sioux Volley cited. That's just not enough time.

I see UND exploring the FBS option no earlier than the beginning of the next decade.

[SiouxVolley]

I have no doubt that Idaho has no intention to go back to FCS football. I don't doubt that they are scheduling FBS beyond their current contract with the Sun Belt. I also don't doubt they have plans for a stadium expansion. But that is a far-cry from the Sun Belt inviting the entirety of the Big Sky conference into its conference. I just can't see that happening, even on a temporary basis.

Perhaps the Sun Belt extends Idaho past 2017-18 season? Or maybe Idaho gets into the Mountain West and abandons the Big Sky entirely? I suspect Idaho is going forward without a definite concrete plan and has multiple options it will be exploring.

Would the NCAA even allow a new FBS conference to form through a temporary merger followed by a split? It seems to me that is just an end-around of forming a new FBS conference. I'm skeptical the NCAA would allow this.

The NCAA will allow it because the rules allow it. It is an end-around and it is legal. If the NCAA doesn't want it to happen, they should legislate prior to the move. Ruling after it is done would have legal issues. Some times the little guy has to perform an end around to have a shotl

No chance Idaho ever gets in the MWC. Montana would be picked before Idaho. UC Davis would have the inside track if it stayed west. The MWC has shown it like Texas schools: Rice, UTSA, UTEP, UNT could all get shots.

I'm confused. Are you saying there is an agreement in place that the Sun Belt will add ALL the Big Sky teams if stadium expansions are underway at the four schools you mentioned above? Why don't the other schools matter?

Eight of the 14 Big Sky schools have to be FBS before the conference can be FBS. The others could be FCS. Nothing prevents a conference from sponsoring both.

Or Maybe Idaho was added because they are Idaho. They are a state flagship institution with good academics and a higher profile than most of the existing Big Sky teams, and a former member as well. The Big Sky never had an affiliate for football schools either, but went ahead with that. I doubt a promise of FBS football was necessary for Idaho to get into the Big Sky in their non-football sports.

Seattle and Denver wanted to get in but the BSC wanted them to start football. From a market and TV standpoint, either Seattle or Denver would be much greater than Idaho without football. Denver has better academics than Idaho, but Denver couldn't get a look. The BSC is a football conference, but they took in Idaho without its most valuable team. That isn't logical. Why not wait til Idaho was forced to FCS? The only answer is that the Big Sky sees Idaho as an opening to FBS. Cal Poly, UCDavis, Portland St, and Sac St have to convert to FBS to have any shot at their football programs being relevant to their areas. FCS is a losers game for them and they know it and they plan on changing the game.

[SiouxVolley]

It is possible that UND doesn't plan on converting right away. Leave it to the eight: MSU, Montana, Idaho, EWU, Portland St and the Calif schools. But that leaves zero room for error if one the those seven can't pass the transition. The plan has to be for at least nine schools, so if one fails the others don't fail.

That would leave UND being a minor partner with little sky teammates: NAU, UNC, Weber, ISU, SUU. That's unacceptable.