bincitysioux Posted January 4, 2014 Author Posted January 4, 2014 You are forgetting that they built all new facilities after they hired Lennon (not just a new stadium). That is probably why people are restless at SIU; people can't understand why the success didn't immediately follow. I think over time, they will have more success, but not if they change regimes every couple of years. The Ralph is living proof that facilities aren't always followed by championships. 1 Quote
Sioux95 Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 I want to know what did people expect was going to be the new coach? Nick Saban or Bo Pelini wasn't going to apply. UND is not exactly on top of the football world. I have faith in the new coaching crew and I think UND's dark days are over. I think we all expected the next Craig Bohl. Someone from and FBS school that was on their way up. In hindsight, I think it would be fair to say that NDSU got Bohl because he had some off the field issues at Nebraska that made him have to take a step back on his way up the chain. Seeing Bohl leave NDSU for Wyoming only makes it more obvious that getting an FBS assistant to take an FCS head coaching position is a long shot. At best, it would be a lateral move for them, and that is only if they came from a weak FBS school. I feel we have a solid group of coaches in place so far. They will provide UND with the experience and discipline the program needs. If I were a recruit and wanted to play early, these guys are the type of coaches I would want in place - coaches whose experience will identify what a kid needs to do to be ready to play. Quote
shep Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 The Ralph is living proof that facilities aren't always followed by championships. But according to Haks supporters, that doesn't matter. 2 Quote
siouxweet Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Why even respond to this garbage? so why can't I be upset about this hire that was done for one reason and one reason only, an attempt to keep season ticket holders from bailing because hey look we got a sexy name from und's past. bubba won't won't come close to sniffing a title any time soon and I will go even farther an say hak will one before ole bubba does. Quote
homer Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 so why can't I be upset about this hire that was done for one reason and one reason only, an attempt to keep season ticket holders from bailing because hey look we got a sexy name from und's past. bubba won't won't come close to sniffing a title any time soon and I will go even farther an say hak will one before ole bubba does. That's not really a bold prediction for many reasons Quote
sioux24/7 Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 and I will go even farther an say hak will one before ole bubba does. Woah now that's bold! Any more bold predictions you have! Quote
choyt3 Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 I don't see the logic either - I appreciate that the coaches are fired up and want to make a difference - Can anyone answer why they couldn't make a difference in Carbondale and what they will do different here? Is there something I'm missing or is this just Magical Thinking? so let's see here, SIU is a program that has been nothing of late and yet UND raids their coaching staff and thinks it will lead them to the promised land. way to go Mr. AD. for a program that seriouslyt needed to cut ties with former players and coaches for its current staff this is brilliant I say, just brilliant...not. The pattern here is puzzling. Neither of you are required to support UND. If these hires are so offensive, why put yourselves through the anguish it is obviously causing you? Quote
Irish Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Success can be a hard thing to quantify. I admit, I thought Lennon would do better at SIU than he has, basically because of his prolific tenure here. However one probably has to consider the heirarchy of DII and DI when measuring his success. For instance, did you know that Lennon has the 2nd highest winning percentage at SIU, behind only Jerry Kill? It is not like SIU is to DI what North Dakota was to DII, which is/was a perennial top program. In 95 years of football they are 50 games under .500. North Dakota is 250 games over .500. SIU has had just 6 head coaches with winning records. North Dakota has had 15. My point is, it is probably easier for a good head coach to have success at North Dakota than it is at SIU, for whatever reason. Money, institutional support, regional competition, etc. I'm sure the SIU faithful and Lennon himself would have preferred to make the playoffs the last couple years, but I'm not sure what they realisticaly expect (the fanbase that is). It is not like SIU is a Montana that has been a favorite to win a conference title for like 25 straight years. He's already the 3rd most successful coach they've ever had, and his teams have improved each of the last two years. Jut my 2 cents....... Actually success is very easy to quantify - won/lost and championships As to Lennon's record the 9-3 and 11-2 first two years are with Kills people (using the exact same argument that people here are using about Bubba's record at Duluth - namely the last coach can take credit for the following two years) After that it is 5-6, 4-7, 6-5, 7-5 Not the stuff of legends. Why do we place such a high premium on his staff? Just not seeing it. Quote
Irish Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 The pattern here is puzzling. Neither of you are required to support UND. If these hires are so offensive, why put yourselves through the anguish it is obviously causing you? Some people are frustrated with the process in which the politically correct HR committee winnows out the good candidates and our two finalists are on the staff of our former coach. 1 Quote
tnt Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 so why can't I be upset about this hire that was done for one reason and one reason only, an attempt to keep season ticket holders from bailing because hey look we got a sexy name from und's past. bubba won't won't come close to sniffing a title any time soon and I will go even farther an say hak will one before ole bubba does. You can! But life is too short to always be negative and always look at the downside of everything, especially for those that can't look at the positive side of anything. People can say duckies and bunnies all they want, but there is an opposite side of that spectrum, and I choose not to be part of the doom and gloom crowd led by Irish. 3 Quote
Irish Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 You can! But life is too short to always be negative and always look at the downside of everything, especially for those that can't look at the positive side of anything. People can say duckies and bunnies all they want, but there is an opposite side of that spectrum, and I choose not to be part of the doom and gloom crowd led by Irish. Same kind of herd thinking that gave us 6 years of Muss - never criticize or question anything - If we hire one of us things are always fine - never question the good old boy network - If you do, you're not one of us Quote
choyt3 Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Same kind of herd thinking that gave us 6 years of Muss - never criticize or question anything - If we hire one of us things are always fine - never question the good old boy network - If you do, you're not one of us They haven't played one game. Relax. Or cheer for someone else. The act is tired. We get it. 1 Quote
Matt Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Same kind of herd thinking that gave us 6 years of Muss - never criticize or question anything - If we hire one of us things are always fine - never question the good old boy network - If you do, you're not one of us You bring up legitimate points, but it is a conversation few want to have until the wheels have already fallen off the bus. Quote
Siouxperman8 Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't hold any ill will towards Lennon. I think that in retrospect he made a mistake going where he did. And yes, it was the worst possible time for him to go, at least from UND's perspective. But nevertheless he did a lot for UND football, and is still a great coach no matter what has happened, or will happen at SIU. Dale is a great football guy and a very quality person. We aren't great friends but I played with him at UND and have followed the program closely since I was 13 years old. Based on my observations and that of guys that played for him and coached with him, I would have welcomed him back as the head coach and was hoping Faison would seek him out this time. Things haven't gone as well as he had hoped at SIU and I don't know the reason for that. He has lost a ton of close games over the years for some reason. Quote
Westside Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Dale is a great football guy and a very quality person. We aren't great friends but I played with him at UND and have followed the program closely since I was 13 years old. Based on my observations and that of guys that played for him and coached with him, I would have welcomed him back as the head coach and was hoping Faison would seek him out this time. Things haven't gone as well as he had hoped at SIU and I don't know the reason for that. He has lost a ton of close games over the years for some reason. I'm wondering if the ND open records law was not in place, would Lennon have applied for the UND job? Wouldn't have surprised me at all if he did... Quote
homer Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 You bring up legitimate points, but it is a conversation few want to have until the wheels have already fallen off the bus. Who is to say someone with no UND ties would have been a guarantee? Just cause someone doesn't have UND ties, doesn't make them an automatic to succeed. Either scenario we are assuming failure before giving anyone a chance Quote
Csonked Out Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 My hope is that Bubba and company will be recruiting a slightly different footprint with ND/Minn/Wisc while keeping a presence in Illinois. SIU's roster consists of 0/1/3 players respectively from those first three states. Maybe that is why he is struggling. He was at Umary prior to UND and then moved to an entirely new recruiting footprint. The same can also be said for most of th assistants, that is why I like the hires, they all have extensive recruiting experience and success in the area 1 Quote
UND Fan Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Actually success is very easy to quantify - won/lost and championships As to Lennon's record the 9-3 and 11-2 first two years are with Kills people (using the exact same argument that people here are using about Bubba's record at Duluth - namely the last coach can take credit for the following two years) After that it is 5-6, 4-7, 6-5, 7-5 Not the stuff of legends. Why do we place such a high premium on his staff? Just not seeing it. Why don't you put it to rest for now - feel free to do an "I told you so" a couple of years from now if appropriate. This is getting kind of old! 1 Quote
NDSIOUXFAN1 Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 I don't think it would matter who we had gotten on staff, Irish would have found something to complain about. The fact is we have 3 North Dakota guys that have had successful coaching careers and are extremely familiar with recruiting the region is a big plus. Not every situation is ideal for a coach and not every great coach can succeed in every situation. Ask Bilichick how he did in Cleveland or Saben about Miami. Irish, do everyone a favor including yourself and give the new staff time to prove you right or wrong, but at least be supportive in the mean time. Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Same kind of herd thinking that gave us 6 years of Muss - never criticize or question anything - If we hire one of us things are always fine - never question the good old boy network - If you do, you're not one of us You make good points about some people backing Muss no matter what happened on the field; I also got tired of that. But let's give Bubba Ball a chance to work. Believe me, if things go down the same path it did under Mussman, I'll be on here with you calling for heads. But I just don't think it will come to that. Quote
Irish Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 I don't think it would matter who we had gotten on staff, Irish would have found something to complain about. The fact is we have 3 North Dakota guys that have had successful coaching careers and are extremely familiar with recruiting the region is a big plus. Not every situation is ideal for a coach and not every great coach can succeed in every situation. Ask Bilichick how he did in Cleveland or Saben about Miami. Irish, do everyone a favor including yourself and give the new staff time to prove you right or wrong, but at least be supportive in the mean time. Ok, Ok - I hear you - I'm not saying we shouldn't be supportive of Bubba - I think he brings some things to our program that were sadly lacking including a passion for the program and an emphasis on the type of football we need. I'll be the first to admit that I am extremely disgusted with the process and hoped we would have a wider range of choices and backgrounds to pick from - Bubba still may have been the best hire. When I say that I just don't understand Dale's lack of success at Carbondale I mean just that - i just don't get it and am not sure why his staff is so desireable given their DI record the last 4 years. I'm not trying to criticize the guys, just not understanding. Having said that, I'll drop it and cheer on the new staff. 2 Quote
UND92,96 Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Ok, Ok - I hear you - I'm not saying we shouldn't be supportive of Bubba - I think he brings some things to our program that were sadly lacking including a passion for the program and an emphasis on the type of football we need. I'll be the first to admit that I am extremely disgusted with the process and hoped we would have a wider range of choices and backgrounds to pick from - Bubba still may have been the best hire. When I say that I just don't understand Dale's lack of success at Carbondale I mean just that - i just don't get it and am not sure why his staff is so desireable given their DI record the last 4 years. I'm not trying to criticize the guys, just not understanding. Having said that, I'll drop it and cheer on the new staff. I'm not sure there is a simple explanation. The thing that makes it all the more difficult to understand, as I've mentioned probably too many times in the past, is the relative success Stiegelmeier has had at SDSU after being essentially a mediocre dII coach for seven seasons. I think he was something like 1-6 vs. Lennon at UND, and had zero playoff appearances. So all of a sudden they go division I, Lennon moves to an established FCS program, Stieg got better and Lennon got worse? It makes no sense. Lennon was great here, but no so much at SIU. Stieg has been very good of late at SDSU, but would he be anywhere else? Doubtful, IMO. Nielsen was great at UMD, but if Western Illinois never makes the playoffs, does that mean he's not still a good coach? I think the point is that at least at this level, coaches are often uniquely suited to certain parts of the country. I can't really come up with an alternative explanation, but that's not to say there aren't others. Quote
Irish Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 I'm not sure there is a simple explanation. The thing that makes it all the more difficult to understand, as I've mentioned probably too many times in the past, is the relative success Stiegelmeier has had at SDSU after being essentially a mediocre dII coach for seven seasons. I think he was something like 1-6 vs. Lennon at UND, and had zero playoff appearances. So all of a sudden they go division I, Lennon moves to an established FCS program, Stieg got better and Lennon got worse? It makes no sense. Lennon was great here, but no so much at SIU. Stieg has been very good of late at SDSU, but would he be anywhere else? Doubtful, IMO. Nielsen was great at UMD, but if Western Illinois never makes the playoffs, does that mean he's not still a good coach? I think the point is that at least at this level, coaches are often uniquely suited to certain parts of the country. I can't really come up with an alternative explanation, but that's not to say there aren't others. I get that - what about this makes his staff very desireable? - Not trying to bash them - just wondering what people see. Quote
NDSIOUXFAN1 Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Coaches know coaches all over the country. Typically a coach isn't sought after if he isn't considered to be good by his piers or others wouldn't recommend him. A good friend of mine coached college football for 15 years and knows nearly every coach across the midwest or could call someone that he knows on that staff to learn about him. Most coaches have coached on multiple staffs, so if you haven't coached with them, it doesn't take long to find someone you know that has coached with them. Quote
jdub27 Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 I'm wondering if the ND open records law was not in place, would Lennon have applied for the UND job? Wouldn't have surprised me at all if he did... From what I have heard, there was virtually no chance of Dale applying, open record laws or not. Quote
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