ND Supreme Court Rules against the NDSBoHE

[The Sicatoka]

I said you had to be very, very observant while watching the WMU/UND game on television. That's all I'll say.

[Siouxperfan7]

I said you had to be very, very observant while watching the WMU/UND game on television. That's all I'll say.

Well since you won't tell us, I would have to guess it was a very small logo that was on the sticks. Am I close??!!

[UNDBIZ]

By "true University of North Dakota supporter" what you really mean is somebody who is willing to trade the Fighting Sioux team for a team of a different name. You just want a team, and you could care less if it is the same team we all grew up rooting for. Shame on you (and those who share your warped view). A real UND Fighting Sioux fan would say I want my Fighting Sioux team or no team at all. Now go ahead and have the last word that you so desperately crave, I am done for tonight.

A guy who is a fan of both the Sioux and the Gophers is trying to tell the rest of us what a real fan is....

[Goon]

A guy who is a fan of both the Sioux and the Gophers is trying to tell the rest of us what a real fan is....

Exactly, a "Real" Sioux fan wouldn't cheer for the Gophers hockey team in any situation.

[dmksioux]

Well since you won't tell us, I would have to guess it was a very small logo that was on the sticks. Am I close??!!

I thought I heard or read something about the "line up" card that's typically posted on the glass behind the benches either referenced the "Fighting Sioux" or had a logo. Am I close?

[southpaw]

I said you had to be very, very observant while watching the WMU/UND game on television. That's all I'll say.

I'm wondering what's the point of even posting anything about it in the first place? You said UND self-reported and the NCAA was ok with it because it was an oversight.

It just makes it seem like you're begging for attention and for people to wait on your every word.

[Siouxperfan7]

I'm wondering what's the point of even posting anything about it in the first place? You said UND self-reported and the NCAA was ok with it because it was an oversight.

It just makes it seem like you're begging for attention and for people to wait on your every word.

Yeah seriously. Just tell us. Don't be that guy!!

[The Sicatoka]

Why throw someone under the bus?

If you know what it was you'd know who it was.

[Hawkster]

Why throw someone under the bus?

If you know what it was you'd know who it was.

That almost makes it sound like it was intentional, and yet you said UND is claiming it was unintentional.

[The Sicatoka]

Someone self-reported a simple error. Unintentional and over.

[82SiouxGuy]

It's funny that so many other schools have changed their nickname over the past 30 or 40 years because of Native American issues, at both the high school and collegiate levels, and they survived quite well without "selling their souls". I have a great deal of confidence that UND could do as well. If your soul is involved with a sports nickname maybe you ought to examine your life to see whether your priorities are in the right place.

[dlsiouxfan]

Every last one of them sold their souls. The athletic dept. may still be alive and well at each school, but that isn't the point. The fact of the matter is that they turned their back on their heritage, which is the ultimate display of dishonor.

PS - It isn't "my" soul that I was referring to, it is the soul of the UND athletic programs. To tell UND they can't be the Sioux anymore is like telling Motey Crue they can't be a rock band anymore. UND, you have to play under a different nickname = Motley Crue, you have to change to either rap or country music. That is about how absurd this situation is, to make an abstract analogy.

The school, the coaches,the athletes, most alumni and fans no longer want to be the Fighting Sioux anymore. They'd rather be something else and have a chance to be successful. They've "sold their soul" according to you so please go find another team to root for and move on. If being the Fighting Sioux is a condition for you to continue being a fan then your no longer a fan we want anymore.

[82SiouxGuy]

Every last one of them sold their souls. The athletic dept. may still be alive and well at each school, but that isn't the point. The fact of the matter is that they turned their back on their heritage, which is the ultimate display of dishonor.

PS - It isn't "my" soul that I was referring to, it is the soul of the UND athletic programs. To tell UND they can't be the Sioux anymore is like telling Motey Crue they can't be a rock band anymore. UND, you have to play under a different nickname = Motley Crue, you have to change to either rap or country music. That is about how absurd this situation is, to make an abstract analogy.

Wow, Dave. You just insulted hundreds of schools all in one post. That must be a record. Congratulations!

Oh, by the way, does that mean that UND sold its soul in 1930 when it changed the nickname from Flickertails to Sioux? They turned their back on their heritage, and someone once said that was the ultimate display of dishonor. I don't know how you could ever support a school that would do that.

[JohnboyND7]

Wow, Dave. You just insulted hundreds of schools all in one post. That must be a record. Congratulations!

Oh, by the way, does that mean that UND sold its soul in 1930 when it changed the nickname from Flickertails to Sioux? They turned their back on their heritage, and someone once said that was the ultimate display of dishonor. I don't know how you could ever support a school that would do that.

I still hate the Bison for changing their name from the Farmers way back when.....OUR HERITAGE IS RUINED I TELL YA!

[Chewey]

I don't know if Sioux fans envy the rodents. I think it's the other way around.

[southpaw]

Someone self-reported a simple error. Unintentional and over.

Over til you decided to post partial details for no reason. Sure, you didn't call someone out but you intentionally intrigued enough people that at least one person is going to search for it. When it comes out, you can tout you had nothing to do with it, all the while knowing it likely never would have come to light without your intentionally generic post.

[darell1976]

No, because the Flickertails name was never as heavily marketed as the Fighting Sioux name. The Fighting Sioux name has become the identity and the soul of UND sports in ways that the Flickertails name never came close to. Granted, that happened way before my time but I would be willing to bet if we were to go back and look at old GF Herald microfilms from that era we would not find anything to suggest that people had a sentimental attachment to that name the way we now have to the Fighting Sioux name.

So any team that changes their name and or logo is selling their soul...so just this year the now Miami Marlins (with a new logo) sold their soul so they can move out of Sun Life Stadium and into a park of their own? The Washington Wizards sold their soul when they changed their name from the Bullets? Stanford from Indians to Cardinals? All because of marketing? Just think Stanford and Dartmouth would have to change their name now if they still had Indians as their nickname because of NCAA sanctions. Do you think marketing the Fighting SIoux name and logo is going to help UND when they can't schedule games (or have games cancelled..ex. Iowa Track meet)? Is marketing going to help when UND cannot sell those jerseys or shirts with the name on them at NCAA tournaments? Is marketing going to make up for lost revenue at the Alerus Center because our team if they are good enough to make the playoffs play all the playoff games on the road? Look at the $$$ of the future. If we get booted out of the BSC and have to field DII/NAIA teams or drop football or basketball because there is no conference home is marketing going to save our athletic department?

[Goon]

That's just sad. This obsession with the Gophers that so many of our fanbase fixates on really reflects poorly on us. They aren't even a rival school. We play them in one sport, and they are merely one of many conference opponents in that one sport. They're no more or less of a hockey rival than Wisconsin, Denver, MN-Duluth, Colorado College, etc... You know the inferiority complex that so many Bison fans have towards the Sioux? Well, it shames me to say that unfortunately a lot of Sioux fans have that very same inferiority complex towards the Gophers. I mean, for f*ck's sake, did you hate the 1980 USA olympic team because they were made up of roughly 30% Gophers? Good god people, these are upper midwest kids. The decent thing to do would be root for them against anybody but the Sioux, but I understand how it is to be set in your ways. I know I won't make anybody see the light, so off the soapbox for now.

Wow!!!!! Did you forget to take your meds today or did you have a bad shift at Stop and Go last night? The reason I like UND is that I actually attended UND and I have to degrees from the University of North Dakota making me an alumnus and I consider the Gophers a hated rival and could in no way shape or form cheer for them under any circumstances. Kind of like expecting someone from Oklahoma University to cheer for the University of Texas because if they were in the BCS championship for football after OU’s season has finished.

[Goon]

If you're willing to be a fan of a UND team by another nickname then you're no longer a fan I want anymore (at least for as long as the Sioux name remains).

That type of logic is moronic and childish at best.

[Goon]

I don't know if Sioux fans envy the rodents. I think it's the other way around.

I don't know any UND/Sioux fans that envy them, most fans I know hate them.

[Goon]

No. As a matter of fact I don't have to be, nor am I being, a child. Do you have to be such an instigator?

no not me...

[ScottM]

Watching Dave "spin" his way through this issue is a pretty amusing way to start the day.

Then again, my coffee is just starting to kick in ...

[homer]

And then there's your side... the side that thinks giving up our nickname is a small price to pay.

Yeah, I would like to keep sports at UND too but not at that cost. That is the equivalent of selling our souls, but sadly some of you just can't (or don't want to) see it for what it is.

Wow Dave, I really hope you are kidding with some of these posts. There have been more people who have devoted more of their time and energy into UND programs than you ever will who have come out and openly admit it is time to change the name. Hakstol, Mussman, Lennon, Kleinsasser, O'Keefe, Martinson, Williamson and Klosterman come to mind right away. Don't forget Lamoureux admitting the team wasn't at all concerned about what was on their jersey before regionals started. These are guys have invested more "heart and soul" into building the nickname than you ever have and they are willing to part ways with it. I don't think they are selling their souls, I'd say they are able to not let emotion blind them and are willing to let UND do whats best for the athletic dept. They actually care about UND athletics, not the nickname attached to it.

[jdub27]

Every last one of them sold their souls. The athletic dept. may still be alive and well at each school, but that isn't the point. The fact of the matter is that they turned their back on their heritage, which is the ultimate display of dishonor.

PS - It isn't "my" soul that I was referring to, it is the soul of the UND athletic programs. To tell UND they can't be the Sioux anymore is like telling Motey Crue they can't be a rock band anymore. UND, you have to play under a different nickname = Motley Crue, you have to change to either rap or country music. That is about how absurd this situation is, to make an abstract analogy.

First off, having the athletic department alive and well is what is important to people, not the nickname. And historical references will continue to be around, there will be no turning of backs on UND's proud history. I have not once seen an instance where the NCC titles won as the Flickertails count less than those won as the Sioux or Fighting Sioux. Can you show me an instance where that is the case?

As for your analogy, it is not even close. No one is telling UND they can't play football, basketball, hockey, etc (rock music in your analogy). No one is forcing them to change what they do or who they represent. They saying it is best for them to change names. This has nothing to do with what they do. Things change, accept it.

[The Sicatoka]

PS - It isn't "my" soul that I was referring to, it is the soul of the UND athletic programs. To tell UND they can't be the Sioux anymore is like telling Motey Crue they can't be a rock band anymore. UND, you have to play under a different nickname = Motley Crue, you have to change to either rap or country music. That is about how absurd this situation is, to make an abstract analogy.

Wrong analogy.

It would be like the company that manages all the concert arenas in the country telling Motley Crue they can still be a rock band, but if they want to play in arenas they manage Motley Crue can't use the name "Motley Crue".

What are Motley Crue's choices in this scenario?

(a) Change the name to "The Dr. Feelgood Band" and get the venues (and revenues), or

(b) Keep the name and only be playing at backyard bar mitzvahs.

In DaveK's world the decision is clear: Lech haim, Vince Neil, lech haim!