UND1983 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Ummm going against the rights of native americans who want the name to stay as they feel its an honor. Ignoring them. And not obeying what the overall population wants. Is that enough? So the Native Americans in Fort Totten have more rights and say on UND's campus than the student-athletes and coaches do. The ones who are actually on the campus every single day attending college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Ummm going against the rights of native americans who want the name to stay as they feel its an honor. Ignoring them. And not obeying what the overall population wants. Is that enough? And yes I kind of agree with this. But peoples rights are peoples rights and it shouldn't matter what organization you are Did you get dropped on your head as a baby? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambone Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 So do I, as a person of Scandanavian descent, have the right to have the UND sports teams named after me? Are my rights not being violated because they are not knows as the Fighting Norse? Should I start a petition to get that nickname in the constitution? I guess what I'm saying is I don't understand how anyone's rights are being violated because a team will not have their heritage as a nickname. Someone please explain to me how their rights are being violated......Thank you in advance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny Baker Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Ummm going against the rights of native americans who want the name to stay as they feel its an honor. Ignoring them. And not obeying what the overall population wants. Is that enough? Wait, this conversation needs to end before the Constitution is further tarnished. We have natural rights that the federal government and, for the most part, state governments cannot infringe. I don't agree with what the NCAA is doing, but they simply are not a state actor. Even if we assumed that the NCAA was the government, what section of the Constitution protects anyone's "right" to feel honored by an athletic nickname? Honor is not a protected right under the constitution. Neither is what the overall population wants, otherwise Al Gore would have been our President. Please stop abusing the meaning of our nation's Constitution. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Ummm going against the rights of native americans who want the name to stay as they feel its an honor. Ignoring them. And not obeying what the overall population wants. Is that enough? We have been over this for years now. The NCAA doesn't (and doesn't HAVE to) care. The NCAA SUCKS! But, they are the only organization out there other than NAIA, which would be death to our athletic program, hockey included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post siouxu31 Posted March 1, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted March 1, 2012 I attacked the comment, not the person making the comment. You, on the other hand, attacked the person making the comment. "Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul." 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luapsided Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 The tribes had an opportunity a few years ago to speak up and be heard about how honored they were by the name. They chose not to and the timeframe for the agreement past. The NCAA is following an agreement that was in place. I wish they didn't wait so long. None of this would be going on still.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvinbe Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Maybe someone out there can help me out on this one. It is my current understanding that current state law (which was repealed, but is now again active due to the petition) mandates use of the Fighting Sioux name by UND sports teams. It is also my understanding that the settlement with the NCAA and NCAA policy mandate forfeiture of NCAA playoff games if the Fighting Sioux name continues to be used by UND sports teams. Thus, either state law or the NCAA will have to be defied by UND if we qualify for NCAA playoff competition. There is no longer any middle ground on this issue. Legally, UND is now in the position of either having to defy the NCAA and forfeit playoff games, or defy state law. This is my current interpretation of the facts before us. If my understanding of the current legal situation is wrong, I look foward to being corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Maybe someone out there can help me out on this one. It is my current understanding that current state law (which was repealed, but is now again active due to the petition) mandates use of the Fighting Sioux name by UND sports teams. It is also my understanding that the settlement with the NCAA and NCAA policy mandate forfeiture of NCAA playoff games if the Fighting Sioux name continues to be used by UND sports teams. Thus, either state law or the NCAA will have to be defied by UND if we qualify for NCAA playoff competition. There is no longer any middle ground on this issue. Legally, UND is now in the position of either having to defy the NCAA and forfeit playoff games, or defy state law. This is my current interpretation of the facts before us. If my understanding of the current legal situation is wrong, I look foward to being corrected. UND doesn't have to forfeit playoff games. They won't be able to host playoff games. They can't wear the nickname or logo during the playoffs, and the NCAA won't use the nickname or logo in any way. UND would just be known as UND or North Dakota. UND doesn't use the nickname or logo on all uniforms, and the state law doesn't require it. They can wear uniforms that just say UND, North Dakota, or use the interlocking ND logo. UND can officially be known as the Fighting Sioux (which meets the state law), but not have the name or logo on display in any way during the playoffs. However, if UND does try to use the nickname or logo in any way during the playoffs, they could forfeit the games and have to reimburse the NCAA for any expenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny Baker Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Maybe someone out there can help me out on this one. It is my current understanding that current state law (which was repealed, but is now again active due to the petition) mandates use of the Fighting Sioux name by UND sports teams. It is also my understanding that the settlement with the NCAA and NCAA policy mandate forfeiture of NCAA playoff games if the Fighting Sioux name continues to be used by UND sports teams. Thus, either state law or the NCAA will have to be defied by UND if we qualify for NCAA playoff competition. There is no longer any middle ground on this issue. Legally, UND is now in the position of either having to defy the NCAA and forfeit playoff games, or defy state law. This is my current interpretation of the facts before us. If my understanding of the current legal situation is wrong, I look foward to being corrected. UND can comply with both state law and the settlement agreement. The settlement simply provides that if UND continues using the nickname then the school will be sanctioned and cannot, among other things, host playoff games, rather than entirely forfeit the game, itself. Even the NCAA has stated that "the Settlement Agreement did not compel the SBHE to retain or retire the nickname. Rather, the Agreement simply set forth possible scenarios in relation to UND’s nickname and outlined the impact of each scenario under the NCAA championships Policy." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvinbe Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 UND can comply with both state law and the settlement agreement. The settlement simply provides that if UND continues using the nickname then the school will be sanctioned and cannot, among other things, host playoff games, rather than entirely forfeit the game, itself. Even the NCAA has stated that "the Settlement Agreement did not compel the SBHE to retain or retire the nickname. Rather, the Agreement simply set forth possible scenarios in relation to UND’s nickname and outlined the impact of each scenario under the NCAA championships Policy." I wasn't aware that state law allowed UND to NOT display the logo. Are you sure that it allows UND to go without the logo on the uniforms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I wasn't aware that state law allowed UND to NOT display the logo. Are you sure that it allows UND to go without the logo on the uniforms? The law says that the intercollegiate athletic teams sponsored by the University of North Dakota shall be known as the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux. It says nothing about what is on the uniforms. The school already has teams that don't use the nickname or logo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvinbe Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 UND doesn't have to forfeit playoff games. They won't be able to host playoff games. They can't wear the nickname or logo during the playoffs, and the NCAA won't use the nickname or logo in any way. UND would just be known as UND or North Dakota. UND doesn't use the nickname or logo on all uniforms, and the state law doesn't require it. They can wear uniforms that just say UND, North Dakota, or use the interlocking ND logo. UND can officially be known as the Fighting Sioux (which meets the state law), but not have the name or logo on display in any way during the playoffs. However, if UND does try to use the nickname or logo in any way during the playoffs, they could forfeit the games and have to reimburse the NCAA for any expenses. Is it your particular legal interpretion that state law does not require either the logo or nickname on the uniforms, or is that generally accepted as legally factual by those on either side of this issue? Couldn't it just as easily be argued that the law requires the logo and/or nickname on the uniforms in order to meet the wording of the law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 UND doesn't have to forfeit playoff games. They won't be able to host playoff games. They can't wear the nickname or logo during the playoffs, and the NCAA won't use the nickname or logo in any way. UND would just be known as UND or North Dakota. UND doesn't use the nickname or logo on all uniforms, and the state law doesn't require it. They can wear uniforms that just say UND, North Dakota, or use the interlocking ND logo. UND can officially be known as the Fighting Sioux (which meets the state law), but not have the name or logo on display in any way during the playoffs. However, if UND does try to use the nickname or logo in any way during the playoffs, they could forfeit the games and have to reimburse the NCAA for any expenses. which will be a cake walk to do - follow their assnine rules until this is done one & for all but don't use it as fear to drop the name 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvinbe Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 The law says that the intercollegiate athletic teams sponsored by the University of North Dakota shall be known as the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux. It says nothing about what is on the uniforms. The school already has teams that don't use the nickname or logo. I hope you're right on this one. Under the current legal circumstances, UND and its student-athletes are already suffering enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 UND doesn't have to forfeit playoff games. They won't be able to host playoff games. They can't wear the nickname or logo during the playoffs, and the NCAA won't use the nickname or logo in any way. UND would just be known as UND or North Dakota. UND doesn't use the nickname or logo on all uniforms, and the state law doesn't require it. They can wear uniforms that just say UND, North Dakota, or use the interlocking ND logo. UND can officially be known as the Fighting Sioux (which meets the state law), but not have the name or logo on display in any way during the playoffs. However, if UND does try to use the nickname or logo in any way during the playoffs, they could forfeit the games and have to reimburse the NCAA for any expenses. which will be a cake walk to do - follow their assnine rules until this is done one & for all but don't use it as fear to drop the name When would that be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvinbe Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 The law says that the intercollegiate athletic teams sponsored by the University of North Dakota shall be known as the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux. It says nothing about what is on the uniforms. The school already has teams that don't use the nickname or logo. It is my understanding that the uniforms all have something relating to the Fighting Sioux logo and nickname...even if it is just a small logo that is not prominent. If this is still the case, all such logos would have to be removed for playoff competition. I hope that this would still satisfy the wording of the law. As I said in a prior post, I don't want UND and its student-athletes to have to suffer further under this controversey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 stay in the great west for another year, they seem nice. 80) We get it, all you care about is Men's Hockey. Please go back to the Men's Hockey forum and leave the intelligent debate to the rest of us that have a clue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 "Cowards are usually seen to have avoided or refused to engage in a confrontation or struggle which has been deemed good or righteous by the wider culture in which they live. On a more mundane level, the label may be applied to those who are regarded as too frightened or overwhelmed to defend their rights or those of others from aggressors in their lives." So that means Dave Hakstol is a coward? Should he lose his job? Nope, didn't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGreyAnt41 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 It is my understanding that the uniforms all have something relating to the Fighting Sioux logo and nickname...even if it is just a small logo that is not prominent. If this is still the case, all such logos would have to be removed for playoff competition. I hope that this would still satisfy the wording of the law. As I said in a prior post, I don't want UND and its student-athletes to have to suffer further under this controversey. Here's the law: http://und.edu/university-relations/statements-announcements/hb-1263.pdf It says nothing about logos or uniforms or anything. And I'm pretty sure most teams have already removed the logos and "Sioux" from their uniforms, with the exception of the men's hockey team, and they're not "breaking the law" by not having them on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 when the world ends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Dear potential student athletes, If home NCAA playoff game(s) are important to you, don't go to UND. Problem solved. Dear Cratter, If the nickname and logo are more important to you than the University of North Dakota and it's student-athletes, don't go to the games anymore, don't support the institution anymore and get the heck off of this forum while you are at it! Problem solved. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvinbe Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Here's the law: http://und.edu/unive...nts/hb-1263.pdf It says nothing about logos or uniforms or anything. And I'm pretty sure most teams have already removed the logos and "Sioux" from their uniforms, with the exception of the men's hockey team, and they're not "breaking the law" by not having them on there. Thanks! I appreciate the clarification. Now if we can just figure out a way to start hosting NCAA playoff games again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Thanks! I appreciate the clarification. Now if we can just figure out a way to start hosting NCAA playoff games again. That was cleared up, until Clueless Al attempted to usurp the state constitution with his asinine legislation last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luapsided Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Dear Cratter, If the nickname and logo are more important to you than the University of North Dakota and it's student-athletes, don't go to the games anymore, don't support the institution anymore and get the heck off of this forum while you are at it! Problem solved. I am simply supporting the majority of the sioux tribe who want to keep their believed to be honored name. Until that changes or goes away, I know how I will vote when it shows up on the ballot 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.