What happens if the first petition gains enough signatures?

[PhillySioux]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/228802/

Barcome seems to imply that the goal of the petitions is to get SR To vote. He can't be serious.

[Goon]

Certainty? Do you not base things in reality? Willard Romney is going to be the nominee...no doubt...and is losing to Obama...if that is your "certainty"

And that is of today....turn off Fox News. You will get true fair and balanced.

sorry this is my last post about this...its forbidden on these forums...and I will follow the rules.

You can appreciate this one, I lost 5 meals at the Golden Corral after the 2008 election and they want to know if I want to bet again this time.

[108498]

If the sioux are restored tomorrow will the transitions away fromt the sioux be redone to the Sioux? For example Sioux sports highlights Sioux kids club and Sioux sports network. Also are sioux items going to be sold more in sports stores around the country again?

[Cratter]

My prediction is the attorney general will find some thing "wrong" with the petition and it will not go to a vote....I think they have already started implying this with the "left alone" media campaign and

The pharmacy petition was deemed invalid a year or two ago based on it not being stapled to the proposal...(or something like that off the top of my head don't have time to look up the semantics).

Why would the attorney supporting the petition come out and say this today or yesterday or yester yesterday when the petitioners basically already said they had enough signatures?

Reed Soderstrom, the attorney representing nickname supporters says, he's not as confident as Frank Black Cloud they'll have enough signatures to restore the nickname. However, Soderstrom says he's very optimistic. He says it will probably be at least 9 p.m. on Tuesday, before they turn in their petitions to the Secretary of State.

[jimdahl]

The political discussions in this thread are deviating pretty far from relevant to the Fighting Sioux nickname. Discussion of the name controversy and politicians' actions will understandably lead to discussion of those politicians, but please refrain from unrelated partisan political commentary. Thanks.

[Goon]

The political discussions in this thread are deviating pretty far from relevant to the Fighting Sioux nickname. Discussion of the name controversy and politicians' actions will understandably lead to discussion of those politicians, but please refrain from unrelated partisan political commentary. Thanks.

Sorry Jim... It was a caucus tonight in a few states though...

[jimdahl]

Sorry Jim... It was a caucus tonight in a few states though...

No worries, looks like we're going to get plenty of Sioux nickname news to distract us tonight...

UPDATED #Savethesioux petition signature count: 17,213 to be submitted

[Chewey]

Duane Espegard says,

But let’s say the proponents are wrong and, indeed, the NCAA puts you under sanctions. The Big Sky says, ‘This is not going to work for us and you can’t be part of us.’ And the schools that said they wouldn’t schedule us hold to that

Wisconsin already indicated its intent to continue playing UND post 2013 to 2014. Minnesota will do the same. It's failure to say anything in response to SL's letter request is indicative of a school who has had representatives say too much already. Too much money involved and there is a sizable component of UND grads in the Twin Cities. Until this year, the hockey arena was a cemetery, unless the Sioux or the Badgers were in town, and the football stadium has been nothing short of a kasota stone mausoleum. In part, it will never be a Camp Randall stadium because of where it's located. In another part, it will never be one because the Gophers just suck in FB and probably will for the foreseeable future. They're going to need "puffs" from the lower-tier D1 schools to beat up on but even that strategy has not worked to garner a token 2 or 3 wins given the U's experience with NDSU. Maybe they wont want to schedule UND because then they'd lose to 2 ND schools instead of 1. Now, they're going to need to schedule my alma matter, St. John's, or even St. Thomas to get them evidently. Better yet, they're going to need to schedule Hamline or Macalester. They're already hurting for attendance and wins and can't afford the luxury of nitpicking nicknames.

[Cratter]

Watch tonight as they turn in the petitions live.

http://www.justin.tv/smj58501#/w/2578341744

[darell1976]

Nothing will change until the petitions are deemed legal correct? Just because its turned in doesn't mean we are automatically back on the H&A list. I would think this could take awhile to check every single name on the list.

[Cratter]

Nothing will change until the petitions are deemed legal correct? Just because its turned in doesn't mean we are automatically back on the H&A list. I would think this could take awhile to check every single name on the list.

No.

Pretty sure tomorrow it goes into effect. UND will be the "Fighting Sioux." If the quick count has the required number of signatures.

[Teeder11]

Cratter is correct.

[Hayduke]

Cratter is correct.

Appears so..

It just keeps getting weirder and weirder. What did Hunter S. Thompson say?

Oh yeah, "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."

[PhillySioux]

If the SBoHE is considering seeking injunctive relief, would they do it now or wait for election results?

[Chewey]

IIRC both SR and SL leadership at the time of the settlement were either hostile or neutral towards UND's fight to keep the Sioux moniker. I believe a previous SL administration told Kupchella it wasn't their fight at some point. Yeah, pipe ceremonies are nice relics, but have the legal force of a handshake.

I find it interesting that Chewy is actually advocating a legal relativism. Justice Scalia would not be pleased.

If I even had the ability to register as a disappointment on his level, it would be a success.

[82SiouxGuy]

Duane Espegard says,

But let’s say the proponents are wrong and, indeed, the NCAA puts you under sanctions. The Big Sky says, ‘This is not going to work for us and you can’t be part of us.’ And the schools that said they wouldn’t schedule us hold to that

Wisconsin already indicated its intent to continue playing UND post 2013 to 2014. Minnesota will do the same. It's failure to say anything in response to SL's letter request is indicative of a school who has had representatives say too much already. Too much money involved and there is a sizable component of UND grads in the Twin Cities. Until this year, the hockey arena was a cemetery, unless the Sioux or the Badgers were in town, and the football stadium has been nothing short of a kasota stone mausoleum. In part, it will never be a Camp Randall stadium because of where it's located. In another part, it will never be one because the Gophers just suck in FB and probably will for the foreseeable future. They're going to need "puffs" from the lower-tier D1 schools to beat up on but even that strategy has not worked to garner a token 2 or 3 wins given the U's experience with NDSU. Maybe they wont want to schedule UND because then they'd lose to 2 ND schools instead of 1. Now, they're going to need to schedule my alma matter, St. John's, or even St. Thomas to get them evidently. Better yet, they're going to need to schedule Hamline or Macalester. They're already hurting for attendance and wins and can't afford the luxury of nitpicking nicknames.

Wisconsin made the announcement that they would play UND after the nickname was dropped. Just like the Big Sky agreed to add UND to the conference after they announced the name was being dropped. It doesn't mean that Wisconsin will follow through unless contracts were signed. And even then they could try to get out of the contracts.

The lack of response to the Spirit Lake letter could be a decision to stay out of the mess. They were not obligated to answer the letter. Answering just left them open to more crap. Why would a school voluntarily get involved in this mess? That is just another reason schools would want to avoid playing UND. They would want to avoid getting involved in the mess. As of right now it looks like Minnesota is working on a plan to avoid UND in hockey. They have set up a plan to play each of the other Minnesota schools in Division I each year. They will play a series each year against 3 of the schools, and the 4th will be in the holiday tournament. The schools will rotate through the schedule. All of the games will be in Minneapolis except 1 series on the road. Plus they have a 4 year contract to play Notre Dame. Plus they have a deal to play teams out east. They may only have 1 non-conference series a year left to schedule. There is no guarantee that it will be against UND. As a matter of fact, the odds are probably against it just because they aren't going to want to lock into the same schedule every year.

If the hockey team won't play UND, there is very little chance that the other teams will. A new Athletic Director can always change how a school makes out schedules. But as of right now it looks very doubtful that UND will be playing Minnesota much at all over the next several years in any sports.

[82SiouxGuy]

If the SBoHE is considering seeking injunctive relief, would they do it now or wait for election results?

That is a good question. First, I don't think they would do it at all until the Secretary of State reviews and certifies the petitions. If the petitions are certified, they may consider questioning the constitutionality at that point. It would stop the process if they were successful. But they would upset the name-at-all-cost crowd and make them more determined to get the amendment passed. Plus it may upset some legislators and create problems in 2013. Doing it after the election, if the measure passes, could also help pull the name-at-all-cost group together for the amendment. My guess is the SBoHE will either question the constitutionality immediately after the petitions are certified (if they want to be aggressive) or they won't do it at all. So far they haven't been real aggressive.

[MAIDEN]

Come June vote Yes or No and be proud

Referendums are the North Dakota way, just like banning parking meters in 48’

[Cratter]

Change the Name so I can watch UND play the Gophers!!!! ME ME ME ME ME

[iramurphy]

Oh no, now you went and ruined the scare tactics. Why did you have to go and do such a thing?

The Pipe ceremony is binding. The elders on the reservation are very upset with JTA and RHHIT as they have besmirched sacred tribal customs by persuading a majority (a very slim one at that) to not countenance it as valid. It's not up to the Tribal Council's determination. It was valid ab initio which makes the stupidity and outright racism of the NCAA in not recognizing it even more profound and stunning. Hell, no less than Leonard Peltier has written about the sanctity and binding nature of the Pipe Ceremony. If anyone wants a quick crash course as to its sanctity, all one needs to do is read a little blurb in any book by Robert Utley - THE authority on Custer - to see how he disrespected the Pipe ceremony and to see how Native Americans feel about bad things happening to those who disresepect it.

You and I may agree and everything I read about Native culture would seem to make this a correct statement but unfortunately, the NCAA isn't buying that. Unfortunately, not all elders agree with us either. The petition does nothing to help our cause with the NCAA and they have made that clear. So far our legislature and Governor have been unable to convince them otherwise. What the petition does is create potential problems for UND and UND athletics. There should be no legislation to force UND to do anything with the name unless we have assurances it won't hurt scheduling nor our entry into the Big Sky. Anyone who does not see the real potential for problems that exists for the entry to the Big Sky and the fact that we have NCAA sanctions outlined and the real promise they will go into effect are fools. I would hope the positives outweigh the negatives when it comes to the Big Sky but with Fullerton has raised this issue as a potential stumbling block and I am afraid this could lead to a very expensive and costly mistake. Reminds me of the British Officer in the "Bridge Over the River Kwai" when he realized his zeal for all that was British that led him to build the bridge and then he almost prevented the allied special ops guys from blowing it up. His comment was "my God what have I done?". I couldn't find the Minot attorney nor even Frank Burgraff's names amoung the many donors listed in the hockey program. Their legacy won't be that they contributed what they could to the athletic programs, it will be they gathered 16,000 signatures in order to screw a dead horse. What will be left is a dead horse and I am afraid it will stink, but we will get to call it whatever we wish. The key to the name is with the litigation from the Spirit Lake tribe or Standing Rock, not in this same flawed legislation that has already failed.

[JohnboyND7]

I am not going to read too much into this. I feel bad almost..for the people chill with letting the nickname go. For the idiots who want to save some NICKNAME and possibly crush UND athletics, people have warned you from the start to be careful what you wish for. People such as yourselves may have just dug UND's grave....just a matter of if the firing squad shoots or not at this point.

[Oxbow6]

You can appreciate this one, I lost 5 meals at the Golden Corral after the 2008 election and they want to know if I want to bet again this time.

Sorry you lost $25.00 plus tip! Actually, that place should be paying people to eat there IMO.

[Hayduke]

Over 17,000 signatures. Looks like it's the Fighting Sioux...again. Time to change my avatar...again. (It's groundhog day...again)

http://www.inforum.c...icle/id/350054/

[zonadub]

So, here is a question that I have not seen come up in this thread, yet...

What if... the repeal initiative goes to a vote. The state votes it down, because we are afraid of what it means to UND with the NCAA and especially the Big Sky. BUT, there is a two-thirds approval in BOTH of the reservation precincts, such as Sioux and Benson Counties? Would the people who are supposedly supporting the rights of native americans in Indianapolis listen to the native vote or the statewide (mostly white) vote, since they are doing this FOR the native americans?

Would someone who has a better grasp of the legal side of what is going on here have any ideas?

[Hayduke]

So, here is a question that I have not seen come up in this thread, yet...

What if... the repeal initiative goes to a vote. The state votes it down, because we are afraid of what it means to UND with the NCAA and especially the Big Sky. BUT, there is a two-thirds approval in BOTH of the reservation precincts, such as Sioux and Benson Counties? Would the people who are supposedly supporting the rights of native americans in Indianapolis listen to the native vote or the statewide (mostly white) vote, since they are doing this FOR the native americans?

Would someone who has a better grasp of the legal side of what is going on here have any ideas?

Good question. I think there would be an argument against counting those votes because they would include non-tribal members living in that area. But, I would be curious to see when Chewey and the others think.