UND/NDSU football commentary: You can't retire stupid

[Siouxperfan7]

NDSU has 18, I believe. 9 football, 5 womens basketball, and 4 wrestling. Might be some track and field ones that I may be leaving out. But they deffinitely have the upper hand as fas as National Championships are concerned.

[The Sicatoka]

To be accurate, the NCAA only recognizes their titles and 3 of the NDSU football titles you purport are poll titles (no playoff).

And per NDSU fans, only Division I matters, hence, please stick to DI.

[Matt]

To be accurate, the NCAA only recognizes their titles and 3 of the NDSU football titles you purport are poll titles (no playoff). And per NDSU fans, only Division I matters, hence, please stick to DI.

I knew that Bear Bryant was overrated.

[Siouxperfan7]

To be accurate, the NCAA only recognizes their titles and 3 of the NDSU football titles you purport are poll titles (no playoff).

And per NDSU fans, only Division I matters, hence, please stick to DI.

Unless its hockey, they don't count those either!!!

[Johnny Five]

A buddy of mine was in Texas for the game and he said you wouldn't have believed the number of Bison fans who were wearing Sioux suck T-shirts at the game. . He said it was being chanted in the tailgaite area before the game and he heard the chant in the stadium to. The Bison/ Sioux rivalry is very much alive in Fargo. A person NEVER hears Bison chants at any UND game. UND fans have moved on but apparently Bison fans haven't.

I tailgated for 4 hours pregame, 2 post game, walked the stadium a fair amount, went on the field post-game and personally saw 1 on a kid who I assumed to look "student age." Take that for what it's worth I guess. I did see two Sioux sweatshirts and one guy in a nice brand new white under armour Sioux hoodie who was parked right next to us and partied with a bunch of Bison fans before and after the game who was a good dude just having fun who now lives in Frisco.

[FargoBison]

I saw one guy wearing a Sioux Suck shirt and heard four or five chants throughtout the day. Of course one popular chant has always had Sioux suck in it.....although it isn't chanted much anymore.

[SiouxMD]

UND

Women's Basketball 3 DII Titles

Football 1 DII title

Men's Hockey 7 DI Titles

Total of 11 NCAA Team Championship Titles

71 Individual DII Titles (most in swimming and diving)

1 Individual DI Title (apparently in Boxing)

NDSU

Women's Basketball 5 DII Titles

Football 3 College Division Titles by poll; 5 DII Titles; 1 DI Title

Softball 1 DII Title

Men's Outdoor track 1 DII Title

Wrestling 4 DII Titles

Total of 20 NCAA Championship Team Titles

59 Individual DII Titles (most in wrestling)

Totals are current through Jan 8, 2012

Source; http://fs.ncaa.org/D...es/combined.pdf

BisonMac

I was completely unaware of this piece of UND history. Thanks for finding that...

[Google]

1937...Carl Eckstrom defeated Paul Waller (Washington State) in the 125lb weight class.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/champs_records_book/Discontinued.pdf

This short history is worth a read...

http://books.google.com/books?id=GMrwVTGtkqAC&pg=PA55&lpg=PA55&dq=carl+eckstrom+north+dakota+boxing+1939&source=bl&ots=GnFAdbVTYh&sig=1pyWZSjyS8ew0LaihOuoL4oSEcw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=quIMT_exFIGDsgL5n7jtBQ&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=carl%20eckstrom%20north%20dakota%20boxing%201939&f=false

In 1939, he fell short of another National Championship and was runner-up.

http://www.undsports.com//ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=13500&ATCLID=750096

[/Google]

[Vegas_Sioux]

So 83 to 79 thanks to Swimming and diving

[Rick]

And sorry Vegas, that won't fly here. As hockey titles and football titles are two totally different animals. One sport you have to play against a significantly higher amount of teams. That is a discussion for another time.

I believe you are trying to lump the title won last weekend in with a BCS title. Johnboy, you have to remember that this is FCS football and in no way compares to the Division I Championship that Alabama won on Monday night in New Orleans.

So yes, you are right that hockey titles and football titles are two totally different animals. Division I hockey titles are won against the likes of Michigan, Michigan State, Boston College, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Boston U, UMD, DU, etc.

FCS football titles are won against the likes of Sam Houston State, Western Illinois, Southern Illinois, Youngstown State, Northern Iowa, Wofford, Towson, Charleston Southern, Coastal Carolina, Gardner-Webb, Savanna, Hampton, Clifford/Galesburg, Hunter, Grandin.

From there it gets worse if you want to go anywhere in any of the other sports. If you want to rock in the Summit world you need to get past IPFW, IUPUI, UMKC, Oral Bob's, Cavalier, Park River & Pekin/McVille.

[FargoBison]

I believe you are trying to lump the title won last weekend in with a BCS title. Johnboy, you have to remember that this is FCS football and in no way compares to the Division I Championship that Alabama won on Monday night in New Orleans.

So yes, you are right that hockey titles and football titles are two totally different animals. Division I hockey titles are won against the likes of Michigan, Michigan State, Boston College, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Boston U, UMD, DU, etc.

FCS football titles are won against the likes of Sam Houston State, Western Illinois, Southern Illinois, Youngstown State, Northern Iowa, Wofford, Towson, Charleston Southern, Coastal Carolina, Gardner-Webb, Savanna, Hampton, Clifford/Galesburg, Hunter, Grandin.

From there it gets worse if you want to go anywhere in any of the other sports. If you want to rock in the Summit world you need to get past IPFW, IUPUI, UMKC, Oral Bob's, Cavalier, Park River & Pekin/McVille.

Why don't you list all the schools that play college hockey? Why didn't you list the better FCS schools? Oh wait, that would make NDSU look good. Can't have that....

[siouxkid12]

Why don't you list all the schools that play college hockey? Why didn't you list the better FCS schools? Oh wait, that would make NDSU look good. Can't have that....

what better FCS school are there? Furman, Appalachian State, Lehigh, Montana, Georgia Southern, Liberty, Tennessee Tech? In hockey I suppose he forgot to mention Maine, UNH, Harvard, Cornell, RPI...

[Rick]

Why don't you list all the schools that play college hockey? Why didn't you list the better FCS schools?

I just listed the top schools that UND plays for Division I National Championships.

I thought I did list all the better ones. I guess I should have included Richmond, Appy State, Villanova and Jim Madison since they've all won championships lately....sorry for omitting them.

[ringneck28]

When NDSU wins a division 1 basketball championship then they will have equal ground. That is the only equal to hockey that I could come up with. It is like saying that FCS would top FBS, not gonna happen. Take your championship, be happy about it and go back to bisonville.

[FargoBison]

Yep, no surprise as to why UND struggles getting people to fill the Alerus after reading these fine posts.....UND may as well have stayed in DII.

[Hayduke]

NDSU has never won a team sports championship at the highest level of college sports. FCS is Division 1 in name only. The FBS schools are the highest level of college football.

UND has done it 7 times in Division 1 hockey. That is the highest level of college hockey. .

That is a fact.

Congratulations to NDSU on their championship. I hope UND wins the FCS soon. But, it is what it is.

[Hayduke]

BisonMac

I was completely unaware of this piece of UND history. Thanks for finding that...

[Google]

1937...Carl Eckstrom defeated Paul Waller (Washington State) in the 125lb weight class.

http://fs.ncaa.org/D...iscontinued.pdf

This short history is worth a read...

http://books.google....%201939&f=false

In 1939, he fell short of another National Championship and was runner-up.

http://www.undsports...0&ATCLID=750096

[/Google]

The commentary between you and BisonMac is excellent. Great information.

[CMSioux]

Tuesday was two days removed from winning a national championship and what were among the top topics among bison fanatics?

1. Justifying racial slurs uttered by their student body at their national championship rally again a school they no longer are associated with.

2. Justifying racial slurs uttered by one of their players during the national championship rally against a school he has never played.

3. A quarterback that won't be coming to a school they are no longer associated with (and aren't interested in).

4. A quaterback that will be coming to a school they are no longer associated with (and aren't interested in)..

By the way now that UND is no longer using the nickname Sioux, any use of the chant Sioux Sucks would have to be considered a racial slur against a specific group of people and should be dealt with by both NDSU and the NCAA as such.

[UND1983]

Tuesday was two days removed from winning a national championship and what were among the top topics among bison fanatics?

1. Justifying racial slurs uttered by their student body at their national championship rally again a school they no longer are associated with.

2. Justifying racial slurs uttered by one of their players during the national championship rally against a school he has never played.

3. A quarterback that won't be coming to a school they are no longer associated with (and aren't interested in).

4. A quaterback that will be coming to a school they are no longer associated with (and aren't interested in)..

By the way now that UND is no longer using the nickname Sioux, any use of the chant Sioux Sucks would have to be considered a racial slur against a specific group of people and should be dealt with by both NDSU and the NCAA as such.

They have Kolpack, the head cheerleader, to defend Williams. Schnepf rips him two days ago and Kolpack has to come in and defend the kid in todays paper. "They were teasing...". Bison Jeff just couldnt help himself.

[Dagger]

With all this controversy with the Sioux suck chants by Bison players and fans it is just a reminder of how we need to get the nickname behind us. I have to admit it is quite interesting that Bison fans were actually chanting those anti UND chants immediately after the game on the field. Wow. That is called turning a positive into a negative in a hurry.

[Rick]

With all this controversy with the Sioux suck chants by Bison players and fans it is just a reminder of how we need to get the nickname behind us.

Just because some Bison fans and players are yelling Sioux suck, that is a reminder of why we need to get this behind us? Are you kidding me?

Ten years from now Bison fans will be yelling Sioux suck, but who cares? There isn't one member of the Spirit Lake Tribe that thinks the chant is directed at them. I didn't hear Eunice Davidson demanding an apology. Only Gene Taylor, ROK, Bernard Franklin, Mark Emmert, Elliot Glassheim, John Hoeven and the SBoHE are dumb enough to think that. I purposely left a few people off that list, including the three stooges who have represented North Dakota, because they're not capable of thinking.

It's comical how NDSU and Gene Taylor felt the need to come out with an apology. The only thing dumber now will be if ROK comes out and says he accepts Mean Gene's apology. I'm actually surprise he hasn't. All these clowns must think they are full blooded Sioux since they are the only one's who get offended by the name. Will someone please go and tell these idiots that they are white guys with no Native American blood and they have no clue what is offensive to the Spirit Lake Sioux.

If I remember right, Hoeven got his degree from Dartmouth and Kelley came through Berkeley. I believe they, along with the others, got their Masters Degrees in Stupid. Some didn't get "Stupid" enough so they went on to receive the Doctorate and that explains why your average 5th grader has a better grasp on life than these dolts.

[ringneck28]

Just because some Bison fans and players are yelling Sioux suck, that is a reminder of why we need to get this behind us? Are you kidding me?

Ten years from now Bison fans will be yelling Sioux suck, but who cares? There isn't one member of the Spirit Lake Tribe that thinks the chant is directed at them. I didn't hear Eunice Davidson demanding an apology. Only Gene Taylor, ROK, Bernard Franklin, Mark Emmert, Elliot Glassheim, John Hoeven and the SBoHE are dumb enough to think that. I purposely left a few people off that list, including the three stooges who have represented North Dakota, because they're not capable of thinking.

It's comical how NDSU and Gene Taylor felt the need to come out with an apology. The only thing dumber now will be if ROK comes out and says he accepts Mean Gene's apology. I'm actually surprise he hasn't. All these clowns must think they are full blooded Sioux since they are the only one's who get offended by the name. Will someone please go and tell these idiots that they are white guys with no Native American blood and they have no clue what is offensive to the Spirit Lake Sioux.

If I remember right, Hoeven got his degree from Dartmouth and Kelley came through Berkeley. I believe they, along with the others, got their Masters Degrees in Stupid. Some didn't get "Stupid" enough so they went on to receive the Doctorate and that explains why your average 5th grader has a better grasp on life than these dolts.

2 thumbs up on this. We can all argue about this, that and the other but you hit it square on the head.

[Hayduke]

If you use the same source as my previous post (http://fs.ncaa.org/D...es/combined.pdf) which is a summary of NCAA championships and you look up FBS teams for for Division I National Collegiate Championships I think you'll be surprised.

For example, let's take Alabama (the most recent "National Champion" and near the top of the page). The NCAA lists no Division I National Championships in Football for Alabama.

If you browse down the list the first team that you find with a Division I Championship in football is Boise State (a former FCS current FBS school).

Now we all know Alabama has lots of "National Championships" in Football but actually has no NCAA Division I Football Titles. NCAA Division I FBS does not have a national champion or championship. (To understand this fully this wikipedia article is helpful. http://en.wikipedia...._Division_I_FBS).

If you scroll down in the wikipedia article you find a large table of "National Champions", look at 2011, Turns out 3 "National Champions" are listed for 2011. Alabama, LSU and Oklahoma State. Alabama is selected as "National Champion" by most of the polls/ranking that are used and I doubt that either LSU or Oklahoma State will claim those championships. But notice that 12 different polls/ranking are listed for 2011, conceivably they could all have different "National Champions".

So, still using Alabama as an example, Alabama has been selected as "National Champion" 18 times by various selectors, actually trailing Princeton, Yale, Michigan and Notre Dame. Alabama claims 14 of the 18 that they have been awarded. To some extent illustrating what a mess the FBS/BCS "system" has become.

The FCS National Championship in football is in fact the highest level Division I football championship that can be won. The FBS/BCS "National Championships" are awarded to teams by entities outside of the NCAA.

That's why I said in name only. It is not the highest level of college football.

That is a fact.

However, it is, in name a Division I championship. Just not the highest level of college football.

Where, UND Hockey has attained the championship of the highest level of hockey seven times.

Again, congrats to NDSU. It is a great accomplishment that I hope UND can copy in a very short time.

[JohnboyND7]

When NDSU wins a division 1 basketball championship then they will have equal ground. That is the only equal to hockey that I could come up with. It is like saying that FCS would top FBS, not gonna happen. Take your championship, be happy about it and go back to bisonville.

Hahaha You are comparing winning a DI hockey title (60 teams, several Ivy League, several small schools) to winning a D-I Basketball championship of over 300 schools? Come back to reality big guy. Putting hockey next to basketball or FBS or even baseball just makes you look like you took one too many pucks to the head.

At how many of those "bigtime" hockey schools is hockey the number one priority?

Michigan? Not even close.

Ohio State? No.

Boston College? Possibly. Hockey might be the most popular unless Doug Flutie returns there.

Minnesota? State of hockey. Probably. Though it doesn't help that they suck at FB right now.

Michigan State? Nope.

Notre Dame? Rudy, Rudy, Rudy!

Wisconsin? Football school.

These are your big-time schools that play hockey. If hockey was a national sport, and was a national sport from the beginning(i.e. basketball and football), UND wouldn't have been a part of division I. Teams like Penn State, Texas, USC, Florida, etc. would all play it at the Division 1 level. UND would have been in division II with other national division II teams like St. Cloud, Duluth, etc. To me, bragging about division 1 hockey titles is a lot like bragging about Lacrosse titles. When you play in a very, very regional sport, you have little-no right bragging about national titles in it over a "lower level" of football, or comparing it to winning March Madness. But, it is a national title.

Congrats to UND on winning them, but don't think because "it is the highest level" that it makes UND's titles in hockey any better than any of NDSU's football championships or even your own football championship, winning at a sport that literally every state has teams playing, significantly more difficult.

[the green team]

Hahaha You are comparing winning a DI hockey title (60 teams, several Ivy League, several small schools) to winning a D-I Basketball championship of over 300 schools? Come back to reality big guy. Putting hockey next to basketball or FBS or even baseball just makes you look like you took one too many pucks to the head.

At how many of those "bigtime" hockey schools is hockey the number one priority?

Michigan? Not even close.

Ohio State? No.

Boston College? Possibly. Hockey might be the most popular unless Doug Flutie returns there.

Minnesota? State of hockey. Probably. Though it doesn't help that they suck at FB right now.

Michigan State? Nope.

Notre Dame? Rudy, Rudy, Rudy!

Wisconsin? Football school.

These are your big-time schools that play hockey. If hockey was a national sport, and was a national sport from the beginning(i.e. basketball and football), UND wouldn't have been a part of division I. Teams like Penn State, Texas, USC, Florida, etc. would all play it at the Division 1 level. UND would have been in division II with other national division II teams like St. Cloud, Duluth, etc. To me, bragging about division 1 hockey titles is a lot like bragging about Lacrosse titles. When you play in a very, very regional sport, you have little-no right bragging about national titles in it over a "lower level" of football, or comparing it to winning March Madness. But, it is a national title.

Congrats to UND on winning them, but don't think because "it is the highest level" that it makes UND's titles in hockey any better than any of NDSU's football championships or even your own football championship, winning at a sport that literally every state has teams playing, significantly more difficult.

Why? It's not as if you play every single one of the teams during the regular season or playoffs to have to win the National Championship in FCS football. Reality is when the season begins only 15 to 25 teams at most have a legitimate chance at an FCS title. Even though there are less D1 hockey teams- there's problem 15 or so that could win a national championship at the start of the year. But again, you don't have to play every single team so just because there's more- 120 FCS schools doesn't make it any harder. Yes if you had to play every single one to win the championship-then yes...it would be definitively harder- but you don't. That's got to be Ag School reasoning on this. In FCS playoffs- you can receive a bye, and home field advantage. None of those are available once the D1 hockey playoffs begin.

Those that argue that because they don't play D1 hockey in Florida or Texas is a reason to diminish hockey championships. Well the FCS doesn't have schools in a lot of places either.

Let's face it- both are difficult to win. There is no adequate way to settle the argument of which championship is more difficult to attain or who has the right to be prouder of their championship. We'll be proud of our championships. You be proud of yours.

[JohnboyND7]

Why? It's not as if you play every single one of the teams during the regular season or playoffs to have to win the National Championship in FCS football. Reality is when the season begins only 15 to 25 teams at most have a legitimate chance at an FCS title. Even though there are less D1 hockey teams- there's problem 15 or so that could win a national championship at the start of the year. But again, you don't have to play every single team so just because there's more- 120 FCS schools doesn't make it any harder. Yes if you had to play every single one to win the championship-then yes...it would be definitively harder- but you don't. That's got to be Ag School reasoning on this. In FCS playoffs- you can receive a bye, and home field advantage. None of those are available once the D1 hockey playoffs begin.

Those that argue that because they don't play D1 hockey in Florida or Texas is a reason to diminish hockey championships. Well the FCS doesn't have schools in a lot of places either.

Let's face it- both are difficult to win. There is no adequate way to settle the argument of which championship is more difficult to attain or who has the right to be prouder of their championship. We'll be proud of our championships. You be proud of yours.

You make a compelling argument. Touche my friend. Tell Hayduke to quit belittling football championships. If enough fans of UND have his kind of mindset, it totally negates the point of going D-I since I feel like I can say with 100% certainty that neither NDSU nor UND will ever win a basketball, volleyball, soccer, baseball, track title at this level.