Former UND hockey player sends Faison scathing e-mail for testifying a

[FargoBison]

All of them, at one point in time. And Minnesota / Iowa / Wisconsin's scheduling policy is not tied to the NCAA. And yet . . . these schools all continue to play, nickname and all.

“We follow whatever the NCAA’s rulings are,” said Mark Abbott, Iowa’s associate athletic director. “So if you’re on their list of restricted teams, we won’t play you. If you’re removed from that list, for whatever reason, then we’d follow the NCAA’s direction on that.”

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/university_of_iowa_decides_that_unds_fighting_sioux_nickname_isnt_offensive/

Under the original UW policy, "Fighting Sioux" wouldn't pass muster regardless of what the NCAA decides. But in November 2007, the Faculty Senate adopted a revised policy that defers to the NCAA's standard.

Thus, the Sioux were allowed to fight another day in Madison.

http://host.madison.com/sports/college/basketball/men/article_015c650a-f296-11df-80f8-001cc4c03286.html

[dmksioux]

Is there proof that UM, Wisconsin, and Iowa will not schedule the Sioux? I see no proof, and in fact Wisconsin has scheduled the Sioux in basketball and softball in the past year. I don't care about Iowa. Push comes to shove, I really don't care about playing UM, UW, or Iowa --- if it means selling out our name to make some people on those campuses happy. I think that is selling the name pretty cheap.

But any proof of these schools refusing to schedule UND?

As for Minnesota . . . I am not in that group of people who feel that playing Minnesota in non-hockey events is some measuring stick of any serious value. Minnesota is a low-ranked, pathetic excuse for a Big Ten athletics program. I would prefer that we keep the name and play more Western-based schools rather than wring our hands in enrvous worry that "Big Minnesota might not like us." This includes hockey. I am not living my life, nor am I willing to sell my ideals, so cheaply just to make the regents of the University of Minnesota pat us on the head and say, "There's a good boy."

But I ask again ---- any proof of any of this, are is Faisson spouting the doom and gloom party line? I see no proof, I only see cheap parlor tricks disguised as logic. I only see a shell game and three-card-monte. I only see a pack of left-leaning PC police officers frustrated that not enough people are taking them serious. I only see a gaggle of left-leaning Crusaders from the 1970s (Glassheim, Tom Dennis, Mike Jacobs, Omdahl) so entrentched in their long-long-long war against the name that they have totally lost their bearings. In place of logic and proof to support their debate, they and their converts have resorted to knee jerk nonsense, sky-is-falling rhetoric, and "boogey man" bed time stories meant to scare the little ignorant children who are unwilling or unable to understand these people are lost in the haze of their crusade so deeply they just can't see daylight.

And these people have dominated the conversation for so long, without being legitimately questioned, that their hyperbolic responses stink of decayed ideas long discredited, stink of panic, and stink of fear. Deep, serious, fear.

The children don't believe their bedtime stories anymore. The children are growing up. And they are having a hard time getting traction on their doom and gloom silliness.

Where is the proof that any of the defenses raised by Mr. Faisson will happen?

There is none.

Only a performing clown acting out the pathetic last act of a death sequence to the great PC dream in North Dakota to strip the name from UND. Its been such a dedicated cause for them for so long they don't realize the kids aren't afraid -- they are laughing at them. These silly old men sputtering spittle from their senile chins, still ranting about Nixon and the Ford Pinto. And Mr. Faisson, nice man that he is, is sadly playing the part of the dutiful leftist public servant, spouting the party line and propping up these decaying old 1970 social class warriors for one more run. He is neither smart enough, nor brave enough, to anything else.

The only reason Wisconsin scheduled us in softball and basketball is because the NCAA and UND settled out of court and we were temporarily taken off of the sanctions list.

When I have the time I will try to actually find their policies on the matter. However, in watching/listening/reading various interviews of their AD's, Presidents, coaches etc. It has been stated before for these schools. And again, all of the other schools you mentioned were removed from the NCAA list for one reason or another. UND may go back on that list.

So who should I belive as far as potential outcomes in this matter. Internet message board posters such as you and I or someone who is paid to look out for the betterment of our School and our Athletic Departments. Universities are ran by, as you put it, "Left Leaning PC Police." My guess is that both Faison and Kelly have heard from numerous colleagues about this debate. The nickname opponents are going to continue to make a stink about this until it retired, they will not stop until it does. Perhaps this is what Faison, Kelly, and other Presidents/AD's understand.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

The only reason Wisconsin scheduled us in softball and basketball is because the NCAA and UND settled out of court and we were temporarily taken off of the sanctions list.

When I have the time I will try to actually find their policies on the matter. However, in watching/listening/reading various interviews of their AD's, Presidents, coaches etc. It has been stated before for these schools. And again, all of the other schools you mentioned were removed from the NCAA list for one reason or another. UND may go back on that list.

So who should I belive as far as potential outcomes in this matter. Internet message board posters such as you and I or someone who is paid to look out for the betterment of our School and our Athletic Departments. Universities are ran by, as you put it, "Left Leaning PC Police." My guess is that both Faison and Kelly have heard from numerous colleagues about this debate. The nickname opponents are going to continue to make a stink about this until it retired, they will not stop until it does. Perhaps this is what Faison, Kelly, and other Presidents/AD's understand.

That is not a reason to change. That is not a reason to give in. That is not a reason to stop fighting. There are two sides to every major issue on this planet.

[mikejm]

...I see no proof...

...any proof ...

...any proof of any of this

...I see no proof

Where is the proof ...

I know you'll take this wrong, but for our sake

[darell1976]

Besides UND (which it will) what other schools are on the NCAA H&A list?? I know Bradley is on their watch list because of their nickname Braves.

[Chewey]

Besides UND (which it will) what other schools are on the NCAA H&A list?? I know Bradley is on their watch list because of their nickname Braves.

I think Bradley is on some stupid "double secret" probationary period in order to see how many sleepless nights are suffered by the pseudo-intelligensia there because of Bradley's big, bad nickname.

[iramurphy]

I think Bradley is on some stupid "double secret" probationary period in order to see how many sleepless nights are suffered by the pseudo-intelligensia there because of Bradley's big, bad nickname.

Unless they have some sort of Native American logo or reference they can call themselves the Braves because that isn't necessarily Native American.

[dmksioux]

Unless they have some sort of Native American logo or reference they can call themselves the Braves because that isn't necessarily Native American.

Here is the most recent article I could find on Bradley.

http://www.thesouthern.com/news/local/state-and-regional/article_e1aceeec-42b8-11df-ae85-001cc4c03286.html

Apparently they are ok as long as there is no Native American imagery associated with the name as you stated.

[iramurphy]

Is there proof that UM, Wisconsin, and Iowa will not schedule the Sioux? I see no proof, and in fact Wisconsin has scheduled the Sioux in basketball and softball in the past year. I don't care about Iowa. Push comes to shove, I really don't care about playing UM, UW, or Iowa --- if it means selling out our name to make some people on those campuses happy. I think that is selling the name pretty cheap.

But any proof of these schools refusing to schedule UND?

As for Minnesota . . . I am not in that group of people who feel that playing Minnesota in non-hockey events is some measuring stick of any serious value. Minnesota is a low-ranked, pathetic excuse for a Big Ten athletics program. I would prefer that we keep the name and play more Western-based schools rather than wring our hands in enrvous worry that "Big Minnesota might not like us." This includes hockey. I am not living my life, nor am I willing to sell my ideals, so cheaply just to make the regents of the University of Minnesota pat us on the head and say, "There's a good boy."

But I ask again ---- any proof of any of this, are is Faisson spouting the doom and gloom party line? I see no proof, I only see cheap parlor tricks disguised as logic. I only see a shell game and three-card-monte. I only see a pack of left-leaning PC police officers frustrated that not enough people are taking them serious. I only see a gaggle of left-leaning Crusaders from the 1970s (Glassheim, Tom Dennis, Mike Jacobs, Omdahl) so entrentched in their long-long-long war against the name that they have totally lost their bearings. In place of logic and proof to support their debate, they and their converts have resorted to knee jerk nonsense, sky-is-falling rhetoric, and "boogey man" bed time stories meant to scare the little ignorant children who are unwilling or unable to understand these people are lost in the haze of their crusade so deeply they just can't see daylight.

And these people have dominated the conversation for so long, without being legitimately questioned, that their hyperbolic responses stink of decayed ideas long discredited, stink of panic, and stink of fear. Deep, serious, fear.

The children don't believe their bedtime stories anymore. The children are growing up. And they are having a hard time getting traction on their doom and gloom silliness.

Where is the proof that any of the defenses raised by Mr. Faisson will happen?

There is none.

Only a performing clown acting out the pathetic last act of a death sequence to the great PC dream in North Dakota to strip the name from UND. Its been such a dedicated cause for them for so long they don't realize the kids aren't afraid -- they are laughing at them. These silly old men sputtering spittle from their senile chins, still ranting about Nixon and the Ford Pinto. And Mr. Faisson, nice man that he is, is sadly playing the part of the dutiful leftist public servant, spouting the party line and propping up these decaying old 1970 social class warriors for one more run. He is neither smart enough, nor brave enough, to anything else.

Minnesota would not schedule us in FB, BB track etc. Not only has Faison and some of our Alumni Office staff stated that, I spoke with Maturi and he said they won't schedule us. Wisconsin said they would not schedule us but when the agreement to retire the logo was signed, they took us off of their no play list and scheduled us in WBB. I think that is consistent with what Faison is saying.They both have stated they will play us and Illinios as long as we are in their conference. I do not know if they play Illinois because they are in compliance or just because they are in the conference but it doesn't matter. Anyone including Frank want to take a chance on losing hockey with the Gophers or Badgers? I don' know if they will play us if we are on the sanction list and no one on this board has any clue either. Their present policy would prohibit it and don't count on anyone from U of Mn. giving a rip what any of us say. Maturi stated to me that they won't play us as long as that is their policy. Maybe they will change their policy. As long as you are willing to give up those games I'll buy you a pizza and beer and you get no arguament from me.

I was told that UND had a swim meet at the U of Mn. I can't confirm that but it shouldn't be hard to figure out.

The crap about UND staff being leftest PC folks is a bit bizarre. It is irrelevant. They might be right wing conservatives. There are a number of people who bring up some very good points. The biggest concern is scheduling and hosting events. The unknown is are there recruits who want to play in their home state. Roy Williams UNC and former Kansas coach thought so and tried to schedule games in his players home states for them. Maybe he didn't know anything about recruiting. I know for a fact that our coaches in FB are concerned.

Frank is correct in stating the majority of UND athletes and alumni are strongly in favor of the name. I don't believe all agree with his insults. This board is a hockey fan board and I understand the sentiment but it is not an excuse for failure to consider facts. Franks reference to Faison's responsibilty for the teams, traditions and success of UND athletics is right on. Faison's primary responsibility is not to the logo nor the name. Whether or not we agree with how Kelly and Faison have handled it the issue, their primary responsibility is not the name and logo. It is to the the people who make up the teams and who coach the teams, to the University and to our alumni and fans. They also answer to the SBoHE. At present that is what we as the tax payers have set up for higher education in this state. Frank states Faison and Kelly need to be prepared to pick up the financial losses if the name is changed. Is he willing to pick up the costs to the University if we are sanctioned?

Frank invokes Clifford. I believe he was our best president. I worked for him and with him. He had many years as president to solve this issue and I believe he tried. He and Earl Strinden worked closely with Ralph to put together the donation for the arena. The agreement that gives UND athletics the proceeds from the arena and after 20 years gives the arena to UND does not include any requirement to keep the name. I believe if Tom Clifford, Earl Strinden and Ralph Englestad were willing to risk damage to the rest of UND athletics they would have included that clause in the agreement.

I am not going to change people's minds on this board but there are more and more people of sound mind who are starting to consider what hockey will be like in two years and what sanctions will do to scheduling for UND athletics. Nobody knows for sure but there are enough concerns to be careful with this. I was around when UND hockey was down, when MBB was king, when WBB was queen and when FB trumped hockey as the sport on campus. To forget how these sanctions might affect UND and UND atheltics is failing to prepare. A wise coach once said that means you are preparing to fail. Whatever side of the proverbial fence you seem to think you are on, you better keep in mind the possibilities. That isn't doom and gloom it is trying to be smart as we move on from here. Faison isn't going anywhere, he works for Kelly. Kelly isn't going anywhere, he answers to the SBoHE. The SBoHE might be going somewhere but if it is over this issue that would be a mistake.

I give Frank credit for writing and putting his name to his email and I give credit to Faison for suggesting they meet.

For those who have heard this before skip to the posts that won't challenge you to think. If this is too long click your mouse and you don't have to read any of this. If you get so mad you piss yourself then change your grundies. Go Sioux!

[Ole in MSP]

Minnesota would not schedule us in FB, BB track etc. Not only has Faison and some of our Alumni Office staff stated that, I spoke with Maturi and he said they won't schedule us. Wisconsin said they would not schedule us but when the agreement to retire the logo was signed, they took us off of their no play list and scheduled us in WBB. I think that is consistent with what Faison is saying.They both have stated they will play us and Illinios as long as we are in their conference. I do not know if they play Illinois because they are in compliance or just because they are in the conference but it doesn't matter. Anyone including Frank want to take a chance on losing hockey with the Gophers or Badgers? I don' know if they will play us if we are on the sanction list and no one on this board has any clue either. Their present policy would prohibit it and don't count on anyone from U of Mn. giving a rip what any of us say. Maturi stated to me that they won't play us as long as that is their policy. Maybe they will change their policy. As long as you are willing to give up those games I'll buy you a pizza and beer and you get no arguament from me.

I was told that UND had a swim meet at the U of Mn. I can't confirm that but it shouldn't be hard to figure out.

The crap about UND staff being leftest PC folks is a bit bizarre. It is irrelevant. They might be right wing conservatives. There are a number of people who bring up some very good points. The biggest concern is scheduling and hosting events. The unknown is are there recruits who want to play in their home state. Roy Williams UNC and former Kansas coach thought so and tried to schedule games in his players home states for them. Maybe he didn't know anything about recruiting. I know for a fact that our coaches in FB are concerned.

Frank is correct in stating the majority of UND athletes and alumni are strongly in favor of the name. I don't believe all agree with his insults. This board is a hockey fan board and I understand the sentiment but it is not an excuse for failure to consider facts. Franks reference to Faison's responsibilty for the teams, traditions and success of UND athletics is right on. Faison's primary responsibility is not to the logo nor the name. Whether or not we agree with how Kelly and Faison have handled it the issue, their primary responsibility is not the name and logo. It is to the the people who make up the teams and who coach the teams, to the University and to our alumni and fans. They also answer to the SBoHE. At present that is what we as the tax payers have set up for higher education in this state. Frank states Faison and Kelly need to be prepared to pick up the financial losses if the name is changed. Is he willing to pick up the costs to the University if we are sanctioned?

Frank invokes Clifford. I believe he was our best president. I worked for him and with him. He had many years as president to solve this issue and I believe he tried. He and Earl Strinden worked closely with Ralph to put together the donation for the arena. The agreement that gives UND athletics the proceeds from the arena and after 20 years gives the arena to UND does not include any requirement to keep the name. I believe if Tom Clifford, Earl Strinden and Ralph Englestad were willing to risk damage to the rest of UND athletics they would have included that clause in the agreement.

I am not going to change people's minds on this board but there are more and more people of sound mind who are starting to consider what hockey will be like in two years and what sanctions will do to scheduling for UND athletics. Nobody knows for sure but there are enough concerns to be careful with this. I was around when UND hockey was down, when MBB was king, when WBB was queen and when FB trumped hockey as the sport on campus. To forget how these sanctions might affect UND and UND atheltics is failing to prepare. A wise coach once said that means you are preparing to fail. Whatever side of the proverbial fence you seem to think you are on, you better keep in mind the possibilities. That isn't doom and gloom it is trying to be smart as we move on from here. Faison isn't going anywhere, he works for Kelly. Kelly isn't going anywhere, he answers to the SBoHE. The SBoHE might be going somewhere but if it is over this issue that would be a mistake.

I give Frank credit for writing and putting his name to his email and I give credit to Faison for suggesting they meet.

For those who have heard this before skip to the posts that won't challenge you to think. If this is too long click your mouse and you don't have to read any of this. If you get so mad you piss yourself then change your grundies. Go Sioux!

Well said and I agree. I too have communicated with Maturi and he is pretty adamant that the name be retired. Playing Minnesota is not the end all be all of the sporting scene for UND, BUT it would surely help recruiting in the MSP area for all sports if the kids knew they were going to play at TCF, Williams Arena etc. in front of their families and friends. The MSP area is a hotbed for D1 BB players and UND has not been at all successful recruiting here. I truly love the Sioux name and have been a Sioux fan for over 60 years, but it is time to let it go for the benefit of the institution and move on. I do not know the details, but Faison was wrong in speaking as he did about the issue. He would have been better to have stayed quiet and let the thing play out. He should be a neutral party. Scheduling is a problem as evidenced by the FB schedule for the Fall and it is continually frustrating to see schools like USD, SDSU, and NDSU play regional Big 10 schools while UND spins their wheels. UND played the Gophers in the early 70's twice with a number of players from the MSP area starting most memorably on the O line. Joining the Big Sky is a big step, but the MSP area still needs a UND exposure for students and athletes.

[Chewey]

Minnesota would not schedule us in FB, BB track etc. Not only has Faison and some of our Alumni Office staff stated that, I spoke with Maturi and he said they won't schedule us. Wisconsin said they would not schedule us but when the agreement to retire the logo was signed, they took us off of their no play list and scheduled us in WBB. I think that is consistent with what Faison is saying.They both have stated they will play us and Illinios as long as we are in their conference. I do not know if they play Illinois because they are in compliance or just because they are in the conference but it doesn't matter. Anyone including Frank want to take a chance on losing hockey with the Gophers or Badgers? I don' know if they will play us if we are on the sanction list and no one on this board has any clue either. Their present policy would prohibit it and don't count on anyone from U of Mn. giving a rip what any of us say. Maturi stated to me that they won't play us as long as that is their policy. Maybe they will change their policy. As long as you are willing to give up those games I'll buy you a pizza and beer and you get no arguament from me.

I was told that UND had a swim meet at the U of Mn. I can't confirm that but it shouldn't be hard to figure out.

The crap about UND staff being leftest PC folks is a bit bizarre. It is irrelevant. They might be right wing conservatives. There are a number of people who bring up some very good points. The biggest concern is scheduling and hosting events. The unknown is are there recruits who want to play in their home state. Roy Williams UNC and former Kansas coach thought so and tried to schedule games in his players home states for them. Maybe he didn't know anything about recruiting. I know for a fact that our coaches in FB are concerned.

Frank is correct in stating the majority of UND athletes and alumni are strongly in favor of the name. I don't believe all agree with his insults. This board is a hockey fan board and I understand the sentiment but it is not an excuse for failure to consider facts. Franks reference to Faison's responsibilty for the teams, traditions and success of UND athletics is right on. Faison's primary responsibility is not to the logo nor the name. Whether or not we agree with how Kelly and Faison have handled it the issue, their primary responsibility is not the name and logo. It is to the the people who make up the teams and who coach the teams, to the University and to our alumni and fans. They also answer to the SBoHE. At present that is what we as the tax payers have set up for higher education in this state. Frank states Faison and Kelly need to be prepared to pick up the financial losses if the name is changed. Is he willing to pick up the costs to the University if we are sanctioned?

Frank invokes Clifford. I believe he was our best president. I worked for him and with him. He had many years as president to solve this issue and I believe he tried. He and Earl Strinden worked closely with Ralph to put together the donation for the arena. The agreement that gives UND athletics the proceeds from the arena and after 20 years gives the arena to UND does not include any requirement to keep the name. I believe if Tom Clifford, Earl Strinden and Ralph Englestad were willing to risk damage to the rest of UND athletics they would have included that clause in the agreement.

I am not going to change people's minds on this board but there are more and more people of sound mind who are starting to consider what hockey will be like in two years and what sanctions will do to scheduling for UND athletics. Nobody knows for sure but there are enough concerns to be careful with this. I was around when UND hockey was down, when MBB was king, when WBB was queen and when FB trumped hockey as the sport on campus. To forget how these sanctions might affect UND and UND atheltics is failing to prepare. A wise coach once said that means you are preparing to fail. Whatever side of the proverbial fence you seem to think you are on, you better keep in mind the possibilities. That isn't doom and gloom it is trying to be smart as we move on from here. Faison isn't going anywhere, he works for Kelly. Kelly isn't going anywhere, he answers to the SBoHE. The SBoHE might be going somewhere but if it is over this issue that would be a mistake.

I give Frank credit for writing and putting his name to his email and I give credit to Faison for suggesting they meet.

For those who have heard this before skip to the posts that won't challenge you to think. If this is too long click your mouse and you don't have to read any of this. If you get so mad you piss yourself then change your grundies. Go Sioux!

You make good points. Paul Allen had someone on today discussing this weekend's regionals, lamenting the fact that the Gophers suck and aren't there, begrudingly giving the Sioux credit for how the program has retained its strength over the years , the morgue that is Mariucci Arena, and the BTHC. The guy -- and I don't think he's officially part of the U of MN -- said as follows: 1.) That the knobs have their "policy"; 2.) that Maturi has not indicated that the policy is a be all and end all thing; 3.) that the "policy" is stupid both economically and otherwise; 4.) that there are a ton of rabid Sioux supporters in the TC and within 1 day's driving distance of the "X", 5.) This means a ton of money when the "X" and Mariucci and TCF Stadium are filled to capacity; 6.) that the powers that be understand that money means more than "policy"; 7.) that when/if the time comes, the powers that be will find away around the "policy."

I don't think anyone disputes that the worst case scenario is a possibility. But, when money's involved, even the academics (so-called -- a complete misnomer when considered vis-a-vis many of the staff at UND) get it (See NC$$ example of namesake tribe exception for FSU, selling Sioux gear, etc). Here in MN, it may be prudent to contact one's local legislator about the "your name insults us, we won't schedule you" funny business. In tight economic times with even the Almighty "U" begging for more funding, not scheduling things that would certainly make money is just stupid and serves as a basis to dock and reduce funding (Actually, I already have done this). We should not tuck tail and abandon 80+ years of tradition in the face of fear alone. We should be saying : "This is who we are and this is how we're staying. If your 'policy' is worth more to you than the revenue you'd get by playing us, fine. The drives to Lincoln and Ames are only a few more hours than the drive to Mpls and we'll get to play real football programs one of which is also in the Big Ten. Oh, and we're sure the U of Texas and U of Oklahoma would love to beat up on us for awhile. Good luck to you and Jerry Kill in resurrecting your feeble football program. What has it been for you, 5 or 6 coaches now? Oh, and we almost forgot about the BTHC. Have fun having your hockey games played on tape delay and being at or near the ass-end of programming priority. We're sure that Mariucci and the "X" will be filled with TONS of fans from Ann Arbor, East Lansing, Columbus and State College all of which are a mere 800 to 900 miles away. Meanwhile, we'll continue to fill our stands with games against UMD, UNO, SCSU (whose fan bases are nearly as rabid as ours) and other historical powerhouses like DU and CC and we'll continue to get the best recruits - yes, even some Canadians (because we're not stupid and know they can play good hockey too) - because we've put more college players into the pro hockey ranks than any other school. Just allow marijuana on the premises at Mariucci and TCF Bank Stadium and we're sure the hippies who've been promoting your 'policy' will fill the stands. Regrettably, they won't be watching or caring about the ever-deepening pathos that is your FB/hockey program. Take care." People come to UND to wear the jersey and to be known as "Fighting Sioux" especially in the hockey program.

[BobIwabuchiFan]

You make good points. Paul Allen had someone on today discussing this weekend's regionals, lamenting the fact that the Gophers suck and aren't there, begrudingly giving the Sioux credit for how the program has retained its strength over the years , the morgue that is Mariucci Arena, and the BTHC. The guy -- and I don't think he's officially part of the U of MN -- said as follows: 1.) That the knobs have their "policy"; 2.) that Maturi has not indicated that the policy is a be all and end all thing; 3.) that the "policy" is stupid both economically and otherwise; 4.) that there are a ton of rabid Sioux supporters in the TC and within 1 day's driving distance of the "X", 5.) This means a ton of money when the "X" and Mariucci and TCF Stadium are filled to capacity; 6.) that the powers that be understand that money means more than "policy"; 7.) that when/if the time comes, the powers that be will find away around the "policy."

I don't think anyone disputes that the worst case scenario is a possibility. But, when money's involved, even the academics (so-called -- a complete misnomer when considered vis-a-vis many of the staff at UND) get it (See NC$$ example of namesake tribe exception for FSU, selling Sioux gear, etc). Here in MN, it may be prudent to contact one's local legislator about the "your name insults us, we won't schedule you" funny business. In tight economic times with even the Almighty "U" begging for more funding, not scheduling things that would certainly make money is just stupid and serves as a basis to dock and reduce funding (Actually, I already have done this). We should not tuck tail and abandon 80+ years of tradition in the face of fear alone. We should be saying : "This is who we are and this is how we're staying. If your 'policy' is worth more to you than the revenue you'd get by playing us, fine. The drives to Lincoln and Ames are only a few more hours than the drive to Mpls and we'll get to play real football programs one of which is also in the Big Ten. Oh, and we're sure the U of Texas and U of Oklahoma would love to beat up on us for awhile. Good luck to you and Jerry Kill in resurrecting your feeble football program. What has it been for you, 5 or 6 coaches now? Oh, and we almost forgot about the BTHC. Have fun having your hockey games played on tape delay and being at or near the ass-end of programming priority. We're sure that Mariucci and the "X" will be filled with TONS of fans from Ann Arbor, East Lansing, Columbus and State College all of which are a mere 800 to 900 miles away. Meanwhile, we'll continue to fill our stands with games against UMD, UNO, SCSU (who's fan bases are nearly as rabid as ours) and other historical powerhouses like DU and CC and we'll continue to get the best recruits - yes, even some Canadians (because we're not stupid and know they can play good hockey too) - because we've put more college players into the pro hockey ranks than any other school. Just allow marijuana on the premises at Mariucci and TCF Bank Stadium and we're sure the hippies who've been promoting your 'policy' will fill the stands. Regrettably, they won't be watching or caring about the ever-deepening pathos that is your FB/hockey program. Take care." People come to UND to wear the jersey and to be known as "Fighting Sioux" especially in the hockey program.

+1

[Knickball2]

The end game will be about money, right now the money is beginning to be heard. The U of M can go F--- itself, what have they ever won in

basketball, football or anything outside of hockey. I can live with playing all of their natural instate rivals without them. The athletic department

at UND isn't likely to see a down time in Fighting Sioux hockey ever again, Ralph Engelstad made sure of that. Fighting Sioux forever.

[rochsioux]

If the WCHA is really working on a scheduling agreement with MN/Wisc and it includes all WCHA teams then this will probably be the way both schools will get arond the nickname issue.

If will be similar to now as they play UND cause they are in the same conference. In the future it will be "we are playing them because of a conference agreement.

The downside is that we will only play MN one series at home every four or five years, and one on the road. It will only get worse in the future if the big10 adds teams.

UND needs to make it know to McClown that this scheduling is not acceptable. We need to establish yearly games with both MN and Wisc right from the start if we want to keep the rivalry. If they won't schedule them due to the nickname then its time to move on, we'll see them in the post-season if they can qualify. If we only play them once every two to three years it is no longer a rivalry, just another game.

[ScottM]

UND needs to make it know to McClown that this scheduling is not acceptable. We need to establish yearly games with both MN and Wisc right from the start if we want to keep the rivalry. If they won't schedule them due to the nickname then its time to move on, we'll see them in the post-season if they can qualify. If we only play them once every two to three years it is no longer a rivalry, just another game.

Not going to happen. McLeod has already said that any interlocking schedules would involve all WCHA teams, not just the "top tier" like UND, Denver, etc. So we may see them ever other year or so. Moreover, without a conference affiliation, the B10 schools' current dictates regarding schools on the NC$$'s list for "hostile and abusive" names would probably still preclude playing Minnesota and Wisco. And in my mind, a hockey "rivalry" with Denver or UNO isn't even close to what the rivalry with the Golfers and Badgers means.

[Siouxbooster#33]

Not going to happen. McLeod has already said that any interlocking schedules would involve all WCHA teams, not just the "top tier" like UND, Denver, etc. So we may see them ever other year or so. Moreover, without a conference affiliation, the B10 schools' current dictates regarding schools on the NC$$'s list for "hostile and abusive" names would probably still preclude playing Minnesota and Wisco. And in my mind, a hockey "rivalry" with Denver or UNO isn't even close to what the rivalry with the Golfers and Badgers means.

Always with the negative vibes, Moriarity.

[ScottM]

Always with the negative vibes, Moriarity.

"To a New Yorker like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Tigers."

On of my favorite movies.

[Ranger]

Not going to happen. McLeod has already said that any interlocking schedules would involve all WCHA teams, not just the "top tier" like UND, Denver, etc. So we may see them ever other year or so. Moreover, without a conference affiliation, the B10 schools' current dictates regarding schools on the NC$'s list for "hostile and abusive" names would probably still preclude playing Minnesota and Wisco. And in my mind, a hockey "rivalry" with Denver or UNO isn't even close to what the rivalry with the Golfers and Badgers means.

Any ideas what Michigan/Michigan States policy is? MSU is playing at the Ralph next year, so maybe this is an opportunity for the Sioux to play the other teams more often. It seems unfortunate that McLeod is circling the wagons and not looking at the possible bigger, greater potential.

[star2city]

Any ideas what Michigan/Michigan States policy is? MSU is playing at the Ralph next year, so maybe this is an opportunity for the Sioux to play the other teams more often. It seems unfortunate that McLeod is circling the wagons and not looking at the possible bigger, greater potential.

The schools that have had anti-Indian nickname policies are Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Dartmouth. The phenomena is almost entirely regional in the Upper Midwest, at institutions where "progressive" and social gerrymandering have deep roots. Even Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, which have leadership that toes the liberal orthodoxy line on almost every issue, don't have an anti-nickname policy.

If North Dakota was in a region further removed from MN, WI, or IA, the "won't play" argument would be a total joke.

[Sioux_FF]

Anyone have a link to the actual email itself? I heard it floating around out there.

Mr. Faison:

The purpose of this letter is to express to you my frustration, irritation and disgust with your testimony against the use of the Fighting Sioux nickname. As a former Fighting Sioux Athlete with 2 NCAA National Championships, 1 Runner Up, 3 WCHA Championships and a 4-year degree from the University of North Dakota, I find your testimony in favor of retiring the nickname unacceptable behavior for our

[Walsh Hall]

Does McLeod have the authority to bind who we play in our non-conference schedule? Sure he'd like an agreement where all WCHA teams rotate with UM and UW, but can he dictate that? Don't the AD's handle the non-conference scheduling? I'd think it would be mutually benefitial for UM, UW, and UND to have one series a year with each other, i.e. UND @ UM and home for UW in year one, and @UW and home for UM in year two.

I think Brucie is scrambling to hold this together. If we could play UM and UW for a series each year those series would be huge. They would have a much bigger impact on the pairwise than a current series while they are in the WCHA because of the common opponent factor.

[The Sicatoka]

Folks: Reality check time.

If the day comes where UND Athletics faces sanctions for the word "Sioux" and a piece of Ben Brien's art, they have to go. You fight to prevent that day from setting in, but that's reality.

When it comes to scheduling "big time schools" the name North Dakota is far more valuable than Fighting Sioux.* The University of {state} is far better to be than {city} state university, or {compass heading} state university, or {strange name**} state university.

*I say that because of a statement UW AD Alvarez made about wanting to play more peers and fewer small 'state university' schools (e.g. St. Cloud State, Bemidji State, Minn State - Mankato). In the eyes of guys like Alvarez they'd rather play "North Dakota" than "Troy State (of Alabama)". It's the ego thing.

**Bowling Green? You putt on the green. You bowl on a lane.

[Goon]

"You might as well have put on a Gopher jersey or cheer for NDSU..."

This caught my eye as well. Do you think Faison realizes that he has been given the ultimate insult/put-down/bitch slap by a powerful UND alum? I doubt it.

No!!! Faison doesn't care, they are focused on one thing, get rid of the logo.

[ksixpack]

The MSP area is a hotbed for D1 BB players and UND has not been at all successful recruiting here.

Neither has Minnesota

[star2city]

Folks: Reality check time.

If the day comes where UND Athletics faces sanctions for the word "Sioux" and a piece of Ben Brien's art, they have to go. You fight to prevent that day from setting in, but that's reality.

When it comes to scheduling "big time schools" the name North Dakota is far more valuable than Fighting Sioux.* The University of {state} is far better to be than {city} state university, or {compass heading} state university, or {strange name**} state university.

*I say that because of a statement UW AD Alvarez made about wanting to play more peers and fewer small 'state university' schools (e.g. St. Cloud State, Bemidji State, Minn State - Mankato). In the eyes of guys like Alvarez they'd rather play "North Dakota" than "Troy State (of Alabama)". It's the ego thing.

**Bowling Green? You putt on the green. You bowl on a lane.

The issue is that Kelley and Faison have lost the credibility to speak or convince people - if that day comes.

Evidence indicates that Kelley spent his time allowing or convincing one or more Summit League Presidents to come out with a anti-Sioux resolution, prior to membership.

If true, that's deception on the highest order by a UND leader. The media totally bought into the lie, and it still is perpetuated.

At least what Faison spoke at the hearing was on public record, and not some backroom dealing as Kelley has quite possibly done.

Kelley and Faison have lost the ability to communicate with a huge majority of UND alumni and fans, largely because they have not given the slightest indication that they have a passion for the nickname.

That's a failure of leadership.