siouxkid12 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Agreed. Reading the Herald article ( http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/192874 ), Norman seems to have plenty of not-particularly-convincing excuses, but as others have pointed out there are several restaurants on the boardwalk in EGF that seem to be doing just fine, and none has the iconic name and tradition of Whitey's. If you're starting up a new restaurant, I may be able to buy the "competitive marketplace" excuse for why it failed. But when you have an established business that fails under your watch, it's probably not all that difficult to speculate where the blame should be placed. If the right person took over, I have no doubt Whitey's could still thrive in this day and age. If you ask Greg Stennes about how business was before he sold it he will tell you that it was never the greatest. Even when they had there slot machine promotion (where you played the slot machine and whatever year it landed on you payed that price from that time) business was never that great. The sad thing is I think it took something like this to get people to remember Whitey's and maybe the new investors will reep the benefits of Dave Norman's excuse's. I feel bad for the people who bought into Dave's crap, I'm just glad their names won't be reveled because they never wanted to see Whitey's end up like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 If you ask Greg Stennes about how business was before he sold it he will tell you that it was never the greatest. Even when they had there slot machine promotion (where you played the slot machine and whatever year it landed on you payed that price from that time) business was never that great. The sad thing is I think it took something like this to get people to remember Whitey's and maybe the new investors will reep the benefits of Dave Norman's excuse's. I feel bad for the people who bought into Dave's crap, I'm just glad their names won't be reveled because they never wanted to see Whitey's end up like this. If Greg Stennes said that, then I believe it, but it just seems strange that with all the restaurants on the boardwalk, Whitey's would be the one to go under. It has certain advantages that the others will never have in terms of name recognition and history. What disadvantages does/did it have relative to the others, other than the way it was run in recent months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I failed many a Friday morning quiz due to Grain Belt "Premo" nights on Thursdays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxkid12 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 If Greg Stennes said that, then I believe it, but it just seems strange that with all the restaurants on the boardwalk, Whitey's would be the one to go under. It has certain advantages that the others will never have in terms of name recognition and history. What disadvantages does/did it have relative to the others, other than the way it was run in recent months? From what I gathered talking to Greg and the three investors I know they all said it never fully recovered from the flood. The main thing Greg said was when the flood washed away the cooking equipment and it had to be replaced by new stuff the food never tasted the same (I'm not a cook so I don't know how old cooking equipment works and how it can make food taste better) but that was the main reason. The other reason was that when out of town people came to town they do their shopping on the south end of town and don't know how good Whitey's is and they arn't going to travel all the way downtown just to see if there is a restaurant they might like, that is why you are seeing more restaurants going up on the south end of town. Yes, when Greg ran it it always made a little bit of money but not like the Blue Moose, Applebee's or Mikes. The thing that really sank it was the way Dave ran it, from his belittling of employees to straight up lies. There is only room in town for ONE extravagant restaurant and that is Saunders. Dave thought he could put up a fight against Saunders and he lost big time (not only did he lose but the people who put their trust in him lost too). I've come to see that most people (not on here) don't really care for name recognition or history when it comes to a restaurant and that's kind of sad but it is the way it sort of works these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I stopped in the new one post-flood once, and it just wasn't the same (you could say, "of course it wasn't", but Blue Moose felt exactly the same). So, I feel like I really said RIP to my old friend a decade or so ago. It sounds like this is less the end of Whitey's than the end of this owner, which according to the article and this thread may not be an entirely bad thing. I have to agree. Made it back to GF a number of times after the flood, before I left MSP to go south, and Whitey's was so much different. It's tough to rebuild/recreate a classic. Still, I remember setting my Monday class schedules to accommodate the Sunday night festivities. Good times, indeed ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Dan Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Pre flood they had the best onion rings and hard rolls there was. In the restaurant business management is everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxjoy Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I have to agree. Made it back to GF a number of times after the flood, before I left MSP to go south, and Whitey's was so much different. I was a sophomore at UND when the flood hit, and I really didn't get the opportunity to experience it pre-flood. I really wasn't that fond of the restaurant side post-flood. I never did get good service there--ever. I am a former server, so I like to think I cut fellow waitstaff lots of slack. I did have some good times in the bar, though. My mom was an older than average student at UND in the '80s and LOVED Whitey's and the Antique. Either way, it is sad to see a Grand Forks/East Grand Forks icon shut down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakota fairways Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Whiteys will reopen, and the new owners should put the old menu back in place, and hire people who give a darn. I go to Red Lobster, and get great customer service nearly 100% of the time, and that is freaking Red Lobster, a chain restaurant. Why can't a local legendary place like Whitey's do the same? Pre flood they had the best onion rings and hard rolls there was. In the restaurant business management is everything. 2 + 2 = new Whitey's owners should hire Red Lobster's Dining Room & Kitchen Managers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux rube Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Only place I have been going to for the last 10 years since I became a season ticket holder for the Sioux,.We usually stay at the beautiful Plaza when we come up there and eat at Whiteys and take the bus over to the games. This just sucks but I can see someone else with knowledge of the resteraunt and bar business buying it and getting it back to where it was. These past owners were ckueless. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomackman Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Wouldn't the investors names be on the liqour license? What is almost as sad is that everyone knew that this was going to happen with Dave in the picture. What does that make Dave in the restaurant business, 0 for 3? Look at BJ and Shaun with the Frog and how well they have done for themselves and their investors. Two guys that are straight shooters and restaurant people. Whitey's had Dave and investors who are not restaurant people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Wouldn't the investors names be on the liqour license? What is almost as sad is that everyone knew that this was going to happen with Dave in the picture. What does that make Dave in the restaurant business, 0 for 3? Look at BJ and Shaun with the Frog and how well they have done for themselves and their investors. Two guys that are straight shooters and restaurant people. Whitey's had Dave and investors who are not restaurant people. The Toasted Frog is a good example of what can be done when people know what they're doing. When they opened I thought it would be an uphill battle, but by all accounts they've done quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'd guess that unless you're a local, or going to events in GF coming from parts east of GF, you probably don't venture downtown to eat. That's probably even more true now with some of the restaurants along 32nd Ave S. Yeah I miss that place as well. They had some good food... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Back in the day, Whitey's was the place to be on the weekends, Tom Clifford was a rock star and UND was home of the "Fighting Sioux".....oh, how times have changed! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 it is just in a bad location with everything moving away from the river, no one wants to travel to downtown GF/EGF just to eat anymore. What? Its an awesome location. Main street through downtown. Let's see the neighbors are Blue Moose, Mikes Pizza, Applebees, Mamma Maria's, The Boardwalk. It wasn't location. It was everthing else. To say no one wants to travel downtown GF/EGF is just plain wrong. EGFers doesn't want to travel across town to eat at Jakes or BWW. The place will reopen there is no doubt. FYI, I don't buy into this "name recognition," for anyone under 35, the name means little (I have lived here forever). That 35 year old was "what" just turning twenty one when the flood hit? I heard Whitey's use to be "cool" 14-20 years ago? People voting with money would agree, Blue Moose is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Some of us made that tour on our 19th birthday. The law hasn't always been 21. sounds like you were around in the mid to late 80's...there was a constant stream of 19 year olds to the East side until September 1986...then they upped the age to 21 and the party was over (for a couple years) for those born after August 31, 1967...good times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Back in the day, Whitey's was the place to be on the weekends, Tom Clifford was a rock star and UND was home of the "Fighting Sioux".....oh, how times have changed! I remember sitting in the front bar at a table with my crew, and Clifford stopped by, chatted for a while and bought a round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 What? Its an awesome location. Main street through downtown. Let's see the neighbors are Blue Moose, Mikes Pizza, Applebees, Mamma Maria's, The Boardwalk. It wasn't location. It was everthing else. To say no one wants to travel downtown GF/EGF is just plain wrong. EGFers doesn't want to travel across town to eat at Jakes or BWW. The place will reopen there is no doubt. FYI, I don't buy into this "name recognition," for anyone under 35, the name means little (I have lived here forever). That 35 year old was "what" just turning twenty one when the flood hit? I heard Whitey's use to be "cool" 14-20 years ago? People voting with money would agree, Blue Moose is better. What about Cabelas, a HUGE source of traffic, right across the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Tom Dennis editorial on Whitey's: http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/192993/group/Opinion/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS4127 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 What about Cabelas, a HUGE source of traffic, right across the street. I spent a considerable amount of time at the "old" Whitey's when I was attending UND (probably too much). The new one doesn't compare. Also, I am a regular shopper at Cabela's, and my wife and I have walked across the street to eat many times. At first, it was destination Whitey's. After several poor meals, relatively high (although comparable) prices, and very poor service, we moved on down the street. There are probably many stories similar to mine. I like the layout of the place and all the decor, but that was not enough to keep me going back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomackman Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The Toasted Frog is a good example of what can be done when people know what they're doing. When they opened I thought it would be an uphill battle, but by all accounts they've done quite well. If I had the money I would have invested with BJ and Shaun without a doubt. They spent enough time at Sanders and the HoDo to know what works in this market and what does not work. This experiance has shown to be quite effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchool Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 If I had the money I would have invested with BJ and Shaun without a doubt. They spent enough time at Sanders and the HoDo to know what works in this market and what does not work. This experiance has shown to be quite effective. Who is BJ? Isn't it Shaun and Jon Holth that own The Toasted Frog? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Incoherent ramblings: Was it a bar or restaurant? It seemed like two totally different restaurants/bars connected by a hallway. Should have put the Cool round "bar" in the "upper" bar. Nobody wants to sit in a booth in a hallway in the "downstairs" restaurant. Get rid of the "hallway" (no need for two entrances.) dividing the upper bar. Put High Top Bar Tables in the bar. Make it seem like a bar. Total overhaul: Its sad but if you want it to work you gotta total overhaul. Put tons of tvs in the Bar. Get cute girls preferable in Skirts (see the Tavern and Jakes) Make the menu simple with pictures. Get some signature food. Can I even get a Juicy Lucy in Grand Forks? (is a cheeseburger having the cheese inside the meat patty rather than on top) No one likes a copy cat but watch the Food Network (Diners, Drive-In, and Dives, etc) and copy some of those sweet ideas. Olive Garden and Hooters are looking where to go in Grand Forks, too bad they are looking to build new and on the South end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomackman Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Who is BJ? Isn't it Shaun and Jon Holth that own The Toasted Frog? Jon Holth=BJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Some of us made that tour on our 19th birthday. The law hasn't always been 21. Jeez! Way to expose us elderly to the world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Incoherent ramblings: Was it a bar or restaurant? It seemed like two totally different restaurants/bars connected by a hallway. Should have put the Cool round "bar" in the "upper" bar. Nobody wants to sit in a booth in a hallway in the "downstairs" restaurant. Get rid of the "hallway" (no need for two entrances.) dividing the upper bar. Put High Top Bar Tables in the bar. Make it seem like a bar. Total overhaul: Its sad but if you want it to work you gotta total overhaul. Put tons of tvs in the Bar. Get cute girls preferable in Skirts (see the Tavern and Jakes) Make the menu simple with pictures. Get some signature food. Can I even get a Juicy Lucy in Grand Forks? (is a cheeseburger having the cheese inside the meat patty rather than on top) No one likes a copy cat but watch the Food Network (Diners, Drive-In, and Dives, etc) and copy some of those sweet ideas. Olive Garden and Hooters are looking where to go in Grand Forks, too bad they are looking to build new and on the South end. Love the Jucy Lucy which is a Minneapolis invention - You are correct about signature food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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