Siouxphan27 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 In person, oral exam; Chewey and I as proctors. (jdub27 is my alternate; siouxphan27 is Chewey's alternate.) Russ McDonald will not be part of this group. Thank you for your consideration. Can I add some ND history questions to the exam? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 TR died in 1919. If when UND dumped "Flickertails" (in the 1930s) and put in "Roughriders" (to remember TR and his time in ND) would it be an issue? < Beware, blasphemy to follow > Could the folks, in that 1930s vote, have made a mistake by selecting what they did (for us to have to deal with 80 years later)? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I have not been a supporter of the nickname Roughriders in the past, but see it as the best of the remaining 7 options. My biggest problem has been that it was not unique, since RRHS uses that name along with various professional teams and high schools. It is, however, unique in the college ranks, though. And there is linkage between TR, Roughriders and North Dakota. One of the highest awards given by the state of North Dakota is the Theodore Roosevelt Rough Rider Award. http://governor.nd.gov/theodore-roosevelt-rough-rider-award Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Boy Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I will cheer for North Dakota and continue to donate regardless of what nickname, if any, is chosen. To be clear, however, ALL of the nickname options (not including the no nickname) run the gamut from completely embarrassing to completely insipid to completely being "Team Xerox". What's especially galling is that the university/taxpayers/students paid in the multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars to come up with such a list of complete bombs. I want the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo to come back but that is not going to happen (at least for a very long time after extreme political correctness has been eradicated out of post-secondary education - and it looks like the economy and the student loan crisis will effect a healing adjustment in what is now a completely rotting edifice - see Bernie Sanders' campaign call for free college as evidence of this). There is a misperception being tendered by many that those who want to stay "North Dakota" simply want to buy time for the "Fighting Sioux" name to come back. That is not necessarily the case for most though I'm sure there are some who do want that. Remaining "North Dakota" is the best option because all of the other nicknames are complete duds. It is the best option because when you've had the best, nothing else will do. It is the best option because retaining it gives deference and respect to the rich tradition and history and generosity of the Sioux people who's name was ripped away by completely racist and heavy-handed tactics employed by the NCAA. This was one of the goals of Kelley and the committee, wasn't it? Their words need to mean something. Or, will their words just be the latest expedient example of how flimsy and empty the white man's word is? Note to Kelley: Posting a few flags in the Ralph and employing some empty rhetoric that makes one want to vomit will do nothing. This is the best option because it gives reverence to the storied history of UND's athletic franchise. It is the best option because it does not violate any terms of any surrender agreement and I've stated ad nauseam as to why that is. Now that both the marketing argument and the purported violation of the surrender agreement argument have been debunked (my opinion), we see the transitioning to the equally weak argument that other people will define us if we don't have a new nickname. Hasn't everyone on this board and in the media and in Twamley Hall been belaboring the point that the athletic teams and the school and the students are so great that they define themselves? What's with the obsession with labels? We have a label; it's "North Dakota". So scriveners in the media are going to start getting carpal tunnel syndrome from having to type "North Dakota" and will, to protect themselves and to sate their unquenchable, compulsive obsession with labels, start typing "Green and White", "Nodaks", "Green", "UND", etc.? If Minnesota fans want to "define" us as the "?s", if Wisconsin fans want to identify us as "the Green and White", if Denver fans want to identify us as the "Nodaks", who cares? Let people explore their creative muse however they wish. As to the 3 points you mentioned, who cares? Just because someone is mad about being ripped of the best nickname in sport does not mean that said sentiment is the only reason for wanting to stay just "North Dakota". Remaining "North Dakota" does not mean that things stay the "Fighting Sioux". The first two points are representative of of a knee-jerk, perfunctory, presumptive and infantile mind-set that should have no place either on the committee or in the debate itself. It is a mind-set that does not appreciate nuances or complexities and it is fed, sustained and self-soothed by venting its own concocted justifications. The drooling by a 10 month old on a teething ring or the random giggling by a 10 month old at the sound of a rattle would be just as compelling and would probably be more relevant. As to the third point, who cares? One's opinions and personal associations do not violate any surrender agreement. If the committee wants the process to have any relevance at all, it will look at the latest GF Herald poll put the scare tactics and petty, juvenile ramblings and empty arguments regarding labels aside and make "North Dakota" one of the final options. Indeed. The list is so bad I cannot bear to watch the rest play out; especially this new wave of support for the gawdawful "Roughriders". I seriously am beyond the history debate on this one folks. It's already used, spoken for, not of our own. And having the logo be that of our 26th President, a Harvard educated New Yorker, as our fierce North Dakotan is so laughably bad I cannot stand it-- But Harvard will love it. Don't get me wrong, he was a fine man, but don't we have anything closer to home? I just... I... Really? This is what it's come to? Green Hawks? Sundogs? Nodaks? Now, there is some Taz Boy amusement in the thought of taking a famous Minnesota name and how that would drive the Goofer Collective crazy, but again, not original. My friends, just be North Dakota. It's OK to be unique, confident, self-identified as a place and a people that we are. Inclusive. Not Cowboy on the ice vs Indian in the stands (think about that for a moment). Not ambiguous dog representing a solar-atmospheric effect. Not color + bird = safe. North Dakota. Here we come to beat your ass. Again. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The only fan base (basically hockey fans) in the history of collegiate athletics where no nickname is good enough. Get over yourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 My friends, just be North Dakota. It's OK to be unique, confident, self-identified as a place and a people that we are. Inclusive. Not Cowboy on the ice vs Indian in the stands (think about that for a moment). Not ambiguous dog representing a solar-atmospheric effect. Not color + bird = safe. Would you feel the same way if UND was still able to use Fighting Sioux? Or should we only be "unique, confident, self-identified" if we can't have a nickname that people seem to have an irrational attachment to? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Would you feel the same way if UND was still able to use Fighting Sioux? Or should we only be "unique, confident, self-identified" if we can't have a nickname that people seem to have an irrational attachment to? That is a great question and point. Five years from now if the NCAA said UND could get their Sioux nickname back due to tribes backing it, should UND stay unique and confident in their decision to be 'North Dakota'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray77 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Interestingly enough, I happened to come across this today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scpa0305 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 That is a great question and point. Five years from now if the NCAA said UND could get their Sioux nickname back due to tribes backing it, should UND stay unique and confident in their decision to be 'North Dakota'? If we switch to rough riders and five years from now the NCAA allows us to use our old name do we go back? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenWing Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It seems like the majority of the alumni (myself included) like being "North Dakota" but I think it is because we have been immersed in Fighting Sioux tradition for a significant period of time making it easy to carry it on. Unfortunately, the future alumni 20 years from now will never get that same experience. I'd like to see a resolution where the students make the call when it is time for a new nickname. When they stand up and say it's time, then we begin looking at implementing a new name whether it be Roughriders or whatever. By that time there could be an unofficial replacement that evolved organically that would be supported by students, alumni and fans making it an easy transition. I have stated on here that I thought we needed to just get it done and move on. But the way this process has run it's course has done nothing but divide the fanbase. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-RedSox fan Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Roughriders is so terrible, so "dirty", the US Navy would never allow it to be put onto the ship's crest, the ship's patch, of a US Navy ship. I wish Reapers was an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4evrSIOUX Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 That is a great question and point. Five years from now if the NCAA said UND could get their Sioux nickname back due to tribes backing it, should UND stay unique and confident in their decision to be 'North Dakota'? Come on, the only reason we are dealing with this fiasco is that the nickname that was beloved by most was taken away. If they let us get it back, absolutely we should get back what was taken from us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigskyvikes Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Would you feel the same way if UND was still able to use Fighting Sioux? Or should we only be "unique, confident, self-identified" if we can't have a nickname that people seem to have an irrational attachment to? You can't be serious? Fighting Sioux was, and still is "unique, confident, self-identified"! So either choice would be the right choice, but going back to the " original" one would be the best choice, except for the sky is falling crowd! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 You can't be serious? Fighting Sioux was, and still is "unique, confident, self-identified"! So either choice would be the right choice, but going back to the " original" one would be the best choice, except for the sky is falling crowd! Oh, we know that the sky isn't falling. It already fell. Rather than trying to operate under sanctions, it's better to level the playing field by being in compliance. I want UND to succeed. So, we have to choose a nickname. You see, as much as it pains some folks...a minority...the NCAA > UND. That's the real world. I can't think of any reasonable UND fan who would tell the NCAA to stuff it and go back to the Fighting Sioux name. If this happened to Moo U, I can think of one insane convicted felon from the Land of Lakes that would be crazy and stupid enough to do so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teeder11 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 You can't be serious? Fighting Sioux was, and still is "unique, confident, self-identified"! So either choice would be the right choice, but going back to the " original" one would be the best choice, except for the sky is falling crowd!Wrong again! I can confidently say as a card carrying member of the Sky is Falling Crowd (capitalize if you will), if the NCAA and the State ever said we could have unrestricted use of the original back -- no strings -- I'd take it in a heart beat! Not gonna happen. ( ; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Wrong again! I can confidently say as a card carring member of the Sky is Falling Crowd (capitalize if you will), if the NCAA and the State ever said we could we have unrestricted use of the original back -- no strings -- I'd take it in a heart beat! Same here. But, that will happen when I ride a flying pig to the moon. Or to a courthouse in Jamestown... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teeder11 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Same here. But, that will happen when I ride a flying pig to the moon. Or to a courthouse in Jamestown... I'd even put up with the annoying PC ivory tower pointy heads on campus, who like to tell us how hostile and abusive we are, with a big old smile on my face. Because we know they're never going away anyway. Crap, back to reality! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I'd even put up with the annoying PC ivory tower pointy heads on campus, who like to tell us how hostile and abusive we are, with a big old smile on my face. Because we know they're never going away anyway. Crap, back to reality! I felt a lot like the folks against a new name for a long time. But, reality set in and anger went away. Without trying to overanalyze, it really is like a grieving proccess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teeder11 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 For some, The acceptance stage seems to take longer for a nickname than it does for a tragic loss of a loved one. This whole loss of the great Fighting Sioux nickname certainly sucks, but if we start putting our collective energies behind something else, maybe we can take this program to new levels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 For some, The acceptance stage seems to take longer for a nickname than it does for a tragic loss of a loved one. This whole loss of the great Fighting Sioux nickname certainly sucks, but if we start putting our collective energies behind something else, maybe we can take this program to new levels. This is why a new name must be chosen. Otherwise, we will continue lagging behind NDSU, SDSU and our Big Sky brethren. And I for one am sick and tired of being the red-headed stepchild of the Dakota Four. And no, having REA and UND Men's Hockey does not more than make up for it, despite what some people on here like to think. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 For some, The acceptance stage seems to take longer for a nickname than it does for a tragic loss of a loved one. This whole loss of the great Fighting Sioux nickname certainly sucks, but if we start putting our collective energies behind something else, maybe we can take this program to new levels. I feel like we had our time, let the folks on campus move on. It's just a nickname, but its too damaging to UND to continue this debacle. I'm willing to say Go Ridas! (Even with my seven Sioux jerseys in my house...not to mention my hats...hoodies...etc.. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 This is why a new name must be chosen. Otherwise, we will continue lagging behind NDSU, SDSU and our Big Sky brethren. And I for one am sick and tired of being the red-headed stepchild of the Dakota Four. And no, having REA and UND Men's Hockey does not more than make up for it, despite what some people on here like to think. If UND chooses "no nickname," goes undefeated against NDSU, USD, and SDSU in all sports applicable over the next five years, and brings home a couple of NCAA football championships, will you think the school lags behind because it isn't called "Green Hawks" or "Sundogs"? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Same here. But, that will happen when I ride a flying pig to the moon. Allow Mister Montgomery and Mister Gentry to explain the status of the old nickname:Gone like a freight-train, gone like yesterday Gone like a soldier in the civil war, bang bang Gone like a '59 Cadillac Like all the good things that ain't never coming back She's gone (gone) gone (gone) gone (gone) gone, she's gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scpa0305 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 This is why a new name must be chosen. Otherwise, we will continue lagging behind NDSU, SDSU and our Big Sky brethren. And I for one am sick and tired of being the red-headed stepchild of the Dakota Four. And no, having REA and UND Men's Hockey does not more than make up for it, despite what some people on here like to think. Haha, I beg to differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigskyvikes Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Whoa whoa whoa, I never wrote, (or meant to write) that I thought the name was coming back! What's his name used the, what if the old name came back analogy (this could be used wrong) of us staying North Dakota people, or us card carrying members, as not wanting to go back to the old name because no name was unique! Just calling him out on that. I know the name is gone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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