Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[krangodance]

I don't donate money to UND...I do go to hockey games. If you want to count buying tickets for hockey, buying a beer or 2 at the game and buying UND apparell as donating to the athletic department...then the answer is yes, I guess.

That being said...I don't disagree with those that do donate to UND that disagree with what is going on saying that they are going to stop donating, at least for the time being. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

exactly. the optinum phrase being: "at least for the time being". pocketbooks are the best place to hit an organization and force a change.

i don't hold anything against a nickname supporter who continues to donate even while the current administration is in power; that's their choice and i can respect others choices, even if i don't necessarily agree with them. at the same time, i fully understand the message being sent to the university by withholding donations: "get rid of these clowns and let's get some fair-minded, rational folks in charge to replace these panicky, fly-by-the-seat-of-their-pants sheep who are currently running the show. once you do that, i'll continue donating".

und isn't going to collapse because of a year of declined donations (the hockey team alone can generate enough income to maintain the status quo). they will, however, be forced to re-evaluate their leadership and tell them to either shape up or their gone. withholding donations is time-tested method of forcing change. i challenge anybody to come up with a method that would work better toward the end of forcing change?

[krangodance]

[Ray77]

ugh. why does anybody give mplsbison any attention still? when somebody replies to her bs, i start reading the quote not knowing who left the post. every time that happens i think, what is this person talking about? then i think to look at the name in the quote metadata and once i figure it out i can't help but wonder why others are even giving her the time of day.

ray77 - she did the same thing to you that she's done to me several times. she asked you a question, you gave a perfectly logical answer, then she asks the same question again as if you never replied. dealing with mplsbison is an exercise in futility. you can keep presenting your logic on the donations issue, which is perfectly sound in my opinion, but she's going to keep asking the same question over and over and over again.

you need to realize, she's not really trying to engage you in healthy debate. she's behaving like a mischievous child who cares nothing about extracting real information, but rather sits in the back seat of the car with an evil little smile on her face, knowing full well that she's driving you nuts and loving it.

you need to treat her like you treat a child in that situation: ignore her so that she doesn't get the satisfaction of knowing you're getting frustrated. don't believe that she doesn't understand what you're saying; she does. by making you believe she still doesn't follow, she is simply doing her best to get under your skin. i know what you're going through: "man, what the heck is going on here? i've already covered this. perhaps she simply disagrees with me, but what's with this same dang question over and over again? is she daft or am i just not being clear? here, let me try again."

well, stop trying again. let it go and the child will eventually get bored.

Ha...yes, I know what you are saying. I've held off from replying to MplsBison for this entire debate, but for some reason the whole "being a hypocryte if you stop donating to UND but still go to athletic events" argument got to me this time. I must have been caught in a weak moment, and I replied!

[yababy8]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/278574/

90+ days....just to certify the names on the petition....once a certification process has been drafted...then $80-100k to hold a special election.

So just in case anyone out there is slow and needs to keep on keeping a tally;

Above forum article:

two neutral quotes.

two anti-name quotes.

zero pro-name quotes.

So classy when all objective statistical measures that have ever been done, show support for the name between 60 and 90 percent in all groups.

And these measures date back to polls that the FORUM inself conducted all the way back before the NCAA stated this current mess.

See Forum poll for support of Sioux name back in 2003(??)

All the way to the Spririt lake vote;

Yet we get a one way quote from some nobody claiming that 70% of voting adults in Spirit Lake have been brainwashed??

WOW nice journalism!

[krangodance]

So just in case anyone out there is slow and needs to keep on keeping a tally;

Above forum article:

two neutral quotes.

two anti-name quotes.

zero pro-name quotes.

So classy when all objective statistical measures that have ever been done, show support for the name between 60 and 90 percent in all groups.

And these measures date back to polls that the FORUM inself conducted all the way back before the NCAA stated this current mess.

See Forum poll for support of Sioux name back in 2003(??)

All the way to the Spririt lake vote;

Yet we get a one way quote from some nobody claiming that 70% of voting adults in Spirit Lake have been brainwashed??

WOW nice journalism!

well, ya know, 63% of all statistics are made up.

[MplsBison]

I don't donate money to UND...I do go to hockey games. If you want to count buying tickets for hockey, buying a beer or 2 at the game and buying UND apparel as donating to the athletic department...then the answer is yes, I guess.

That being said...I don't disagree with those that do donate to UND that disagree with what is going on saying that they are going to stop donating, at least for the time being. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

Well whether stopping donations of any kind for any reason is right or wrong on its own merit is one thing...but what's completely wrong and absolutely hypocritical in my book is to say that you are no longer going to support the athletic department by canceling your donations to the AD ... and then turning right around and giving the AD your support by going to the games or even by watching them on TV. You say you're not going to do something and then you go right on and do it.

If you're going to cut off donations, then be true to your convictions and disavow any support to the athletic department.

[Ray77]

Well whether stopping donations of any kind for any reason is right or wrong on its own merit is one thing...but what's completely wrong and absolutely hypocritical in my book is to say that you are no longer going to support the athletic department by canceling your donations to the AD ... and then turning right around and giving the AD your support by going to the games or even by watching them on TV. You say you're not going to do something and then you go right on and do it.

If you're going to cut off donations, then be true to your convictions and disavow any support to the athletic department.

Yet another lame, bullsh!t reply. Just because I might disagree with the decision the university is making by dropping the name doesn't mean that I don't like the hockey team, or enjoy watching them play. You don't have to stop donating to UND, but others might believe that's the best way to make themselves heard.

Since you're so involved with this issue and happy with the decision and spending all of your time out here on SiouxSports.com weighing in on the topic, I'm sure you're going to continue donating, and possibly increase your donations, right?

[MplsBison]

Yet another lame, bullsh!t reply. Just because I might disagree with the decision the university is making by dropping the name doesn't mean that I don't like the hockey team, or enjoy watching them play. You don't have to stop donating to UND, but others might believe that's the best way to make themselves heard.

Since you're so involved with this issue and happy with the decision and spending all of your time out here on SiouxSports.com weighing in on the topic, I'm sure you're going to continue donating, and possibly increase your donations, right?

You're not practicing what you preach. You claim to be ending support for UND, but then you support them. There is no other way to look at it in my book and it's nothing more than an excuse to stop donating.

[Hawkster]

well, ya know, 63% of all statistics are made up.

Actually, I think it's 88% of all statistics are made up, but what do I know? Regarding MPS Troll, I suggest doing what I and a lot of others do, and that is ignore him. I can't believe Jim hasn't given him the boot yet. I'm not opposed to free speech, but even an open minded individual like me thinks it's not speech at all, it's just baiting.

[Fetch]

Coming to you from the beautiful Island of Maui

Mpls buffalo isn't even good at baiting - he is just chum & I hope some Big Shark bites his azz

Carry on &

Mahalo

[Goon]

Actually, I think it's 88% of all statistics are made up, but what do I know? Regarding MPS Troll, I suggest doing what I and a lot of others do, and that is ignore him. I can't believe Jim hasn't given him the boot yet. I'm not opposed to free speech, but even an open minded individual like me thinks it's not speech at all, it's just baiting.

Jim is pretty lenient I believe that is a good thing and it takes a lot to get banned from this forum.

[yababy8]

So just in case anyone out there is slow and needs to keep on keeping a tally;

Above forum article:

two neutral quotes.

two anti-name quotes.

zero pro-name quotes.

So classy when all objective statistical measures that have ever been done, show support for the name between 60 and 90 percent in all groups.

And these measures date back to polls that the FORUM inself conducted all the way back before the NCAA stated this current mess.

See Forum poll for support of Sioux name back in 2003(??)

All the way to the Spririt lake vote;

Yet we get a one way quote from some nobody claiming that 70% of voting adults in Spirit Lake have been brainwashed??

WOW nice journalism!

Double WOW!!

So now I read the Grand Forks Herald and I see that they have the same story as the Forum except that they ADDED ANOTHER ANTI-NAME QUOTE.

The story is about how the process to certify the petition ( a petition with 1,000 signatures supporting the name) is going to be laborious.

Can someone please tell me why both papers decided it was in ANY WAY relevent to add quotes from only anti-name supporters in an article about a PRO-NAME petition??

Why should we not conclude that the papers are ACTIVELY involved in a propaganda campain to manipulate the population of North Dakota into having the misguided perception that getting rid of the name is the right thing to do?

Reminder, two out of three Sioux think the name should stay in the only official vote thus far. YET THE PAPER is 0-3 in quotes??

That is the definition of propaganda folks!

WAKE UP!!

[Sioux27]

[yababy8]

Double WOW!!

So now I read the Grand Forks Herald and I see that they have the same story as the Forum except that they ADDED ANOTHER ANTI-NAME QUOTE.

The story is about how the process to certify the petition ( a petition with 1,000 signatures supporting the name) is going to be laborious.

Can someone please tell me why both papers decided it was in ANY WAY relevent to add quotes from only anti-name supporters in an article about a PRO-NAME petition??

Why should we not conclude that the papers are ACTIVELY involved in a propaganda campain to manipulate the population of North Dakota into having the misguided perception that getting rid of the name is the right thing to do?

Reminder, two out of three Sioux think the name should stay in the only official vote thus far. YET THE PAPER is 0-3 in quotes??

That is the definition of propaganda folks!

WAKE UP!!

Last weekend I sent the author of the article, Chuck Haga, and both the editor of the Herald and the Forum an email expressing my ubjection to the slanted reporting in these articles.

I have had no response thus far..

Now that it looks like their source for the extremely negative quote, Jody Luger, has been convicted of basically trying to cover up killing another human I wonder what they have to say about that--->nothing I bet.

I'm going to call my friend who is a Spirit Lake Sioux and a UND Law School graduate, who just past the Bar in Colorado as well as Minnesota and North Dakota a few years back, and get a quote from her about her experience as a Sioux Native American at UND. I'm pretty sure she would be a better source than that tool!

[dlsiouxfan]

Doesn't matter. Kelley has been set on changing the name since the first day he took office. Point your financial support in a different direction like I have.

Do you have a link? Can you cite a specific quote? Or should you we just assume you're talking out of your ass. Your entitled to your opinion but you're not entitled to just randomly make things up.

Seriously, nickname nuts if we run off Kelley no one with half a brain will even touch this job. Kelley made the best decision given the circumstances and I'm sure he probably have given anything to keep the Sioux nickname without completely destroying the school's athletic programs. That wasn't an option so he made the best decision possible. Grow up and quit searching for your pound of flesh.

[GeauxSioux]

Although filled with inaccuracies, this piece does have a fact in it....

So a school or team avatar ideally represents the best aspiration for the team and the schools goals. This is one of the ironies of the whole NCAA and tribal battles over Amero-Indian based mascots. To choose "Seminole" or "Chippawa" or "Warrior" was not an act of denigration but one of admiration and hope to inculcate the virtues of the people into the team and campus. It is important to realize that all these choices involve aspiration and dreams, not realities. So the Trojans and Spartans are not about the cities that lost their wars, but the virtues that made them great even indefeat. The Amero-Indian avatars often represented the same. Teams don't choose avatars of defeated people they despise.

[iramurphy]

Doesn't matter. Kelley has been set on changing the name since the first day he took office. Point your financial support in a different direction like I have.

I spoke with Kelly before he started at UND and shortly after he arrived. Unless you are his wife and know he was not telling me the truth then you haven't a clue. When you don't know what you are talking about, you remind me of those who oppose the name then say whatever they wish to try and convince people on the rez the name is hostile.

If you wish to take your $25 and spend it elsewhere, I hope you go a long way from here because you are the kind of people we can't count on when times are tough. I am glad I never had to go to war with the likes of you. The name doesn't change until next year at the earliest. Why abandon the teams, players, coaches, and the University now ?? You are just cheap! The NCAA forces UND to either change the name or they can't hold tounaments and they can't wear their uniforms with the logo in any playoffs or tournament games. It also limits some of the games and tounaments UND can play in because of some of the policies of other Universities. It is up to the tribes and UND staff and Alumni have been trying to get support from the tribes for years. If you know anything about tribal politics then you should know how difficult and unpredictable dealing with tribal government can be.

Take your pennies buy some extra jerseys with the logos and then sit at the end of the bar with Norm and Cliff and lament about who didn't do what and how it is the end of the world. Do you know how pathetic it sounds when people say they won't support UND anymore because of the logo issue? It could still be saved but if you think Kelly is to blame you haven't been around very long nor paid attention to the facts. Three entities, the NCAA, and the two tribal governments are the powerbrokers in this game. If you wish to get even with someone, don't support any businesses on the reservations that won't support UND and don't support anything to do with the NCAA. If you abandon UND over this issue you aren't much of a fan. What do you think that will accomplish? It certainly won't help save the name.

[Goon]

Although filled with inaccuracies, this piece does have a fact in it....

Now the Sioux logo is an avatar? Hum!

[MplsBison]

I spoke with Kelly before he started at UND and shortly after he arrived. Unless you are his wife and know he was not telling me the truth then you haven't a clue. When you don't know what you are talking about, you remind me of those who oppose the name then say whatever they wish to try and convince people on the rez the name is hostile.

If you wish to take your $25 and spend it elsewhere, I hope you go a long way from here because you are the kind of people we can't count on when times are tough. I am glad I never had to go to war with the likes of you. The name doesn't change until next year at the earliest. Why abandon the teams, players, coaches, and the University now ?? You are just cheap! The NCAA forces UND to either change the name or they can't hold tounaments and they can't wear their uniforms with the logo in any playoffs or tournament games. It also limits some of the games and tounaments UND can play in because of some of the policies of other Universities. It is up to the tribes and UND staff and Alumni have been trying to get support from the tribes for years. If you know anything about tribal politics then you should know how difficult and unpredictable dealing with tribal government can be.

Take your pennies buy some extra jerseys with the logos and then sit at the end of the bar with Norm and Cliff and lament about who didn't do what and how it is the end of the world. Do you know how pathetic it sounds when people say they won't support UND anymore because of the logo issue? It could still be saved but if you think Kelly is to blame you haven't been around very long nor paid attention to the facts. Three entities, the NCAA, and the two tribal governments are the powerbrokers in this game. If you wish to get even with someone, don't support any businesses on the reservations that won't support UND and don't support anything to do with the NCAA. If you abandon UND over this issue you aren't much of a fan. What do you think that will accomplish? It certainly won't help save the name.

You hit it right on the head!

These people claim to be taking away their donations...but then they still watch the teams just like old times. You're absolutely right, they were just looking for an excuse to stop giving money. They're cheap.

They aren't ethical, just cheap.

UND doesn't need and shouldn't want those types as "fans" anyway.

[GeauxSioux]

Whose ox is next to be gored??

Is Pistol Pete safe?

What will be the new nickname, mascot and logo for the University of Wyoming after renaming the Cowboys, retiring Pistol Pete and sending Steamboat to the stable? Sound ridiculous? Maybe, but remember that history has consistently demonstrated how the ludicrous can mutate from improbable to “progress” much too quickly for a slow-reacting, it could-never- happen- here society.

With people, animals, and violence ruled out, UW could assume a nickname such as the "Wind", "Dirt", or "Rocks", except that wind sometimes kills, dirt is bad, and rocks can be a weapon. Maybe UW could select an enigma like Stanford and merely call its teams "The Green", but wear brown uniforms and use an exclamation point for a logo. Probably not, since how could proponents of the semicolon or question mark be appeased?

[darell1976]

Whose ox is next to be gored??

Is Pistol Pete safe?

We elect politicians by a majority vote, pass amendments that way, and enact legislation based on what is best for the whole. Why, then, should a multiple-edged sword like political correctness be driven and wielded by a minority?

This statement says it all.

[The Sicatoka]

Whose ox is next to be gored??

Is Pistol Pete safe?

There are rightfully no nicknames advocating ... the Mafia, ...

Clearly the author has not spoken to me.

The fall of the Fighting Sioux is a wake-up call for all teams at all levels in all places. UND's dilemma leaves an unnecessary void in North Dakota and sends an icy chill that should cause a shiver down (Wyoming Cowboy's mascot) Pistol Pete

[Blackburn87]

I keep watching this whole mess unfold and think, "Surely now, someone in power will put the brakes on this nonsense."

And still, the monolith of political correctness lumbers on, listening to no one except a distinct few.

I suppose we could just shrug our shoulders and say "The hell with it. It's just a name, right? UND is the same without it."

Except, it isn't.

UND is a great school, but this episode, this fight has diminished it. This is about the Powers-that-be being on the wrong side of history. I believe there will come day where we will look back and say, "Can you believe the Sioux name and logo was once considered offensive?" and not the shock that there was ever a time we thought it wasn't.

So, call me a whiner, whatever you want. I know what's right as do a majority of alum, ND citizens, Native Americans, and people who love UND.

I hope there's still time, but hope for a reversal grows dimmer by the day. What a shame.

[yababy8]

I keep watching this whole mess unfold and think, "Surely now, someone in power will put the brakes on this nonsense."

And still, the monolith of political correctness lumbers on, listening to no one except a distinct few.

I suppose we could just shrug our shoulders and say "The hell with it. It's just a name, right? UND is the same without it."

Except, it isn't.

UND is a great school, but this episode, this fight has diminished it. This is about the Powers-that-be being on the wrong side of history. I believe there will come day where we will look back and say, "Can you believe the Sioux name and logo was once considered offensive?" and not the shock that there was ever a time we thought it wasn't.

So, call me a whiner, whatever you want. I know what's right as do a majority of alum, ND citizens, Native Americans, and people who love UND.

I hope there's still time, but hope for a reversal grows dimmer by the day. What a shame.

How this all unfolds in the end depends ENTIRELY on the MEDIA.

...IT IS ALL ABOUT PUBLIC PERCEPTION...

If the media writes articles 'with quotes' that present the Sioux name as a negative then people will accept the change even though they personally are against changing the name.

If the media writes articles 'with quotes' that present the Sioux name as a being liked by the majority native americans (the truth) and write articles which consider the fact that something is being forced on us that is not justified in any logical mannor, then people will become active and resist the name change with success (IMO).

[Goon]

You hit it right on the head!

These people claim to be taking away their donations...but then they still watch the teams just like old times. You're absolutely right, they were just looking for an excuse to stop giving money. They're cheap.

They aren't ethical, just cheap.

UND doesn't need and shouldn't want those types as "fans" anyway.

Come on Skippy, don't you have anywhere else to go?