UND (8-5) vs. St. Thomas (8-5) 12/29 @ 7PM

[Kab]

7 minutes ago, Hans8891 said:

First of all, St. Thomas is very good.  They are very well coached - offensively and defensively.  There is a reason that they were one point away from taking down Marquette with a minute left when they were #5 in the country.  Hats off to them.  They earned their win tonight.   As for us, we didn’t compete.  The coaches failed to make any adjustments, but the players don’t get a pass on this one either.  St. Thomas simply outworked, outhustled, outdefended, and outrebounded us.  If there was a loose ball, they got it.  We didn’t.  That is on the players.  As for the coaching staff, we apparently don’t recognize when we have a serious mismatch. When our 6’4 guards are being taken one on one by a 5’11 defender, why are we not attacking the basket.  St. Thomas is very good at help side, double teaming to prevent penetration.  Unfortunately, our guys stay 5 feet away from the penetrating player so there is no space to move and no place to kick.  Makes it incredibly easy to jump back and not get caught.  Contrast that with our complete inability to figure out what to do with ball screen at the top of the key.  There is a virtual certainty someone will be wide open.  Our bigs are not fast enough to cover, don’t know where to go, and we lack communication.  This has been the story all year long - and we are still doing it.  Our defenders continually turn their backs to the ball and don’t know what is happening with the ball resulting in wide open layups or getting caught in switches.  Our offense got pushed further out on the perimeter by a much smaller team and couldn’t attack the rim because they are constantly in each other’s way.  Eri King was our only competitor tonight with a few glimpses of Tyree.  Other than that, nobody showed up.  I believe we are a better team than we showed tonight, but if that is the effort we give and the lack of any coaching adjustments whatsoever, its going to be a long year.

Many times our players stood and watched as they went for a rebound or a loose ball , that’s when a good coach sits that player and uses his bench

we seem so weak under the basket, can’t finish a layup that’s contested

why so many 3s?, they weren’t going in so try midrange or under the bucket and hope for a foul 

[Hans8891]

28 of our 49 shots were behind the arc at a 25% clip against a smaller team….

[NewUndFan]

Brady stats again tonight  zero rebounds,  steals , points , blocks. Zero everything.   Dang in 3 minutes of play 2 for 3 shots and a steal.   Yet in a blow out game coach didn't think of maybe trying something different.   Can't wait to see no more TT and Brady next year. 

[UND1992]

2 hours ago, Hans8891 said:

First of all, St. Thomas is very good.  They are very well coached - offensively and defensively.  There is a reason that they were one point away from taking down Marquette with a minute left when they were #5 in the country.  Hats off to them.  They earned their win tonight.   As for us, we didn’t compete.  The coaches failed to make any adjustments, but the players don’t get a pass on this one either.  St. Thomas simply outworked, outhustled, outdefended, and outrebounded us.  If there was a loose ball, they got it.  We didn’t.  That is on the players.  As for the coaching staff, we apparently don’t recognize when we have a serious mismatch. When our 6’4 guards are being taken one on one by a 5’11 defender, why are we not attacking the basket.  St. Thomas is very good at help side, double teaming to prevent penetration.  Unfortunately, our guys stay 5 feet away from the penetrating player so there is no space to move and no place to kick.  Makes it incredibly easy to jump back and not get caught.  Contrast that with our complete inability to figure out what to do with ball screen at the top of the key.  There is a virtual certainty someone will be wide open.  Our bigs are not fast enough to cover, don’t know where to go, and we lack communication.  This has been the story all year long - and we are still doing it.  Our defenders continually turn their backs to the ball and don’t know what is happening with the ball resulting in wide open layups or getting caught in switches.  Our offense got pushed further out on the perimeter by a much smaller team and couldn’t attack the rim because they are constantly in each other’s way.  Eri King was our only competitor tonight with a few glimpses of Tyree.  Other than that, nobody showed up.  I believe we are a better team than we showed tonight, but if that is the effort we give and the lack of any coaching adjustments whatsoever, its going to be a long year.

Yes to all

[GoodGood]

Another thing of note from this game, I’ve never seen a player get humiliated by an opposing teams bench like Brooks was yesterday. I legit felt bad for Brooks. I’m not sure who on staff is in charge of player development but they let him down big time this summer. In fact I’m not sure if the person in charge has any idea what they’re doing when it comes to shooting mechanics. It’s really sad watching some of these guys shoot 

[Kab]

So who thinks that since last night the coaches have came up with a miraculous game plan on the road after a bus trip?

to me the worst part last night was the way the bench wasn’t used.

announcers kept blaming the Christmas break and bad travel conditions back to GF for the players, that couldn’t have created that debacle last night , looked more like a NY eve hangover game

[iramurphy]

8 hours ago, Hans8891 said:

First of all, St. Thomas is very good.  They are very well coached - offensively and defensively.  There is a reason that they were one point away from taking down Marquette with a minute left when they were #5 in the country.  Hats off to them.  They earned their win tonight.   As for us, we didn’t compete.  The coaches failed to make any adjustments, but the players don’t get a pass on this one either.  St. Thomas simply outworked, outhustled, outdefended, and outrebounded us.  If there was a loose ball, they got it.  We didn’t.  That is on the players.  As for the coaching staff, we apparently don’t recognize when we have a serious mismatch. When our 6’4 guards are being taken one on one by a 5’11 defender, why are we not attacking the basket.  St. Thomas is very good at help side, double teaming to prevent penetration.  Unfortunately, our guys stay 5 feet away from the penetrating player so there is no space to move and no place to kick.  Makes it incredibly easy to jump back and not get caught.  Contrast that with our complete inability to figure out what to do with ball screen at the top of the key.  There is a virtual certainty someone will be wide open.  Our bigs are not fast enough to cover, don’t know where to go, and we lack communication.  This has been the story all year long - and we are still doing it.  Our defenders continually turn their backs to the ball and don’t know what is happening with the ball resulting in wide open layups or getting caught in switches.  Our offense got pushed further out on the perimeter by a much smaller team and couldn’t attack the rim because they are constantly in each other’s way.  Eri King was our only competitor tonight with a few glimpses of Tyree.  Other than that, nobody showed up.  I believe we are a better team than we showed tonight, but if that is the effort we give and the lack of any coaching adjustments whatsoever, its going to be a long year.

Great observations.  Shows insight and knowledge of the game.  Appreciate the post. 

[gfhockey]

Only one that played hard was Eli king

[ND1]

2 hours ago, GoodGood said:

Another thing of note from this game, I’ve never seen a player get humiliated by an opposing teams bench like Brooks was yesterday. I legit felt bad for Brooks. I’m not sure who on staff is in charge of player development but they let him down big time this summer. In fact I’m not sure if the person in charge has any idea what they’re doing when it comes to shooting mechanics. It’s really sad watching some of these guys shoot 

I agree watching them not even remotely guard him at the 3 point line is embarrassing.  Once again we have one guard playing that can shoot … Treyson  and st Thomas was all over him 

[GoodGood]

10 minutes ago, ND1 said:

I agree watching them not even remotely guard him at the 3 point line is embarrassing.  Once again we have one guard playing that can shoot … Treyson  and st Thomas was all over him 

Yep St Thomas did a good job at punking everyone but Treysen. Brooks can still play, but you can’t have him either standing in the corner or sitting on the perimeter with the ball in his hands. That’s on the coaches for not putting him in a position to be successful 

[sioux24/7]

Idk if there’s ever been a game that has me more discouraged than that. We will be a middle of the pack Summit team I still believe but that’s not what I want to strive for. The energy, the culture, that’s what I want…… and I’m not sure that’s going to happen under Sather. Still wish we would have been able to swing it with Ben McCollum, but clearly we don’t invest enough into basketball. 

[SiouxFan100]

I would characterize Sather as a decent hire that didn’t turn out to be successful 

[GoodGood]

11 minutes ago, HoopsFan03 said:

And one that we just gave an extension to this offseason……..

You mean we extended a coach who has finished 6th, 5th, 10th, and 9th in the mighty Summit League? Year 5 and he lost the conference opener by 25? 

[UND1983]

You two have definitely been lockstep, like usual, in your disapproval of Sather basically since you joined the board.  There a history there?

[F'n Hawks]

12 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

You two have definitely been lockstep, like usual, in your disapproval of Sather basically since you joined the board.  There a history there?

You might be right, but this might also have something to do with it.

[UND1983]

1 minute ago, HoopsFan03 said:

No. I don’t think he is a good coach. As plain and simple as that. I would rather watch UND win and we haven’t under Sather.
 

As a former collegiate player I see the game differently than the majority of people watching and with a deeper understanding. I have pointed out exact stats, X’s and O’s, and other legitimate reasons for why I believe he hasn’t been successful at this level. Anybody on this board can take any of that info however they would like. 

Fair enough.  

[SiouxFan100]

Hoops

I I appreciate your inputs here. Though a little harsh at times. We don’t always agree (that’s fine) but everyone here wants UND to be successful.

you are frustrated and most everyone has been or is frustrated.

Do you think our team this year is fixable? If so, would you mind sharing more of specific things you would change. I know you mentioned some - don’t play Brady and change our defense on screens. Hans had posted some specific things to help educate.

Sounds like Sather is here for a while so you can’t change him. Do you think we doomed to failure because of his extension?

I should add I would welcome any specific changes anyone here would make. You can’t change our team members or coach and not playing Brady is already taken (though I don’t think he is in the top five of our problems)

[Und246]

The one thing I have noticed is they are very slow on switching men on defense on screens. We get burned on that a lot. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

12 hours ago, GoodGood said:

Another thing of note from this game, I’ve never seen a player get humiliated by an opposing teams bench like Brooks was yesterday. I legit felt bad for Brooks. I’m not sure who on staff is in charge of player development but they let him down big time this summer. In fact I’m not sure if the person in charge has any idea what they’re doing when it comes to shooting mechanics. It’s really sad watching some of these guys shoot 

right in front of the bench....that was f'n ugly.

[SIOUXFAN97]

[SIOUXFAN97]

On 12/29/2023 at 10:09 PM, Oxbow6 said:

UND women BB lose by 19

UND men BB lose by 25

Can we all now go back to the UND FB thread and bang on NDSU FB coordinators to make ourselves feel better?

#beattheU18kidsplease

 

jinxed

[SiouxFan100]

27 minutes ago, HoopsFan03 said:

This team has some serious limitations just based on the roster we have. No shooters, like at all. And no legitimate big man. Not sure how those 2 issues were not addressed at all during the off-season. That is absolutely mind blowing. You asked for some specific details that I would change so I'll list some below for you or whoever would like to read (in no specific order).

• Stop playing TT and Amar at the same time. Neither of them are legitimate big men, but they both are even worse out on the perimeter. Neither of them are 4's. It ruins all spacing on offense and then gives up so many mismatches on the defensive side. Please please please stop playing them both at the same time! 
•  
• Stop running whatever their current "motion" offense is. There is no spacing and we get no motion out of it. With the current roster and 0 shooters they need to try create as much spacing as possible. Passing to the wing and setting double pin down's for guys like Brady D and Eli Brooks is the dumbest thing I have ever seen. Run a 4 out motion with lots of ball screens that you allow players to play free out of and make plays. Create advantages out of this.
•  
• Stop this high hedge ball screen crap. Very few teams run it anymore because it puts your backside defense in such a crappy position. And then even if you have good backside help it puts your big man in an even worse spot and then you give up way too deep of post ups (which is especially bad with our lack of true big men). Ball screen defense can and should change a lot of games depending on matchups. Go to an 'ice' coverage or just switch all ball screens and figure it out from there.
•  
• Push the ball as fast as possible and create easy baskets in transition. Our halfcourt offense is very limited. We need to get easy points in transition. We currently walk the ball up the court every possession. That makes 0 sense. 
•  
• Fix the rotation and subbing. Stop playing Brady D. Need more energy from the bench and all the redshirts. Think of St. Thomas's bench and then think of ours. Our bench energy SUCKS!
•  
• Basketball is all about creating advantages (which we aren't good at). St. Thomas showed exactly how to do that. They continuously sought out advantage after advantage. For example, any time TT or Brady D was in the game they put them in a ball screen and got some sort of an advantage out of it. If they switched they just took them off the dribble and blew by them every time for a layup. Or they got the big man to pop off the screen and created a wide open 3 out of it. 

Those are just some thoughts off the top of my head. Take this information however you would like. Happy New Year and hopefully more wins in 2024!! 

Thanks

some good points 

we are so inconsistent 

a lot of that has to be on coach

Afraid we are mid conference for the foreseeable future 

[UND-FB-FAN]

BB and FB need new coaches. X’s and O’s matter, and obviously so does recruiting in college athletics. Inspiration and leadership goes a long way.

Chaves needs to do a better job. UND Athletics is stale with no championship expectations other than with hockey.