Johnny Five Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 20 hours ago, sioux rube said: One of the better ninth graders in the state from Valley City is heading to Warroad. Coached her in peewees for 2 years. Could have helped the Jays big time. Her teammate that I coached with her is staying in VC for at least this season and will play on the bantam A team this season. Hopefully she stays and plays for the Jays. She’s a damn good defenseman Yup. I believe there are 4 ND girls headed to Warroad this year...lol. Quote
Johnny Five Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 On 8/25/2023 at 10:11 PM, Frozen4sioux said: So what can be done? Game count limits seem like a big factor.. also seems like the easiest adjustment although even a 4-5 game increase cant compete with a 60 game AAA schedule.... More games vs low competition doesn't really do much either. More games, tiered classes AA/A ... and more chances to get to MN for tournaments?.. Probably nothing I guess. MN won't wanna play anyone west of Fargo or GF anyway. Not sure how AA/A would work in ND with so few teams. Quote
sioux rube Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Johnny Five said: Probably nothing I guess. MN won't wanna play anyone west of Fargo or GF anyway. Not sure how AA/A would work in ND with so few teams. Hate to say it but I see the trend getting worse rather than better Quote
The Sicatoka Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Johnny Five said: Probably nothing I guess. MN won't wanna play anyone west of Fargo or GF anyway. Not sure how AA/A would work in ND with so few teams. They make it work in FB with AAA, AA, A, and 9. Quote
Johnny Five Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said: They make it work in FB with AAA, AA, A, and 9. So AA hockey would be Minot, Bismarck x 3, WF x 2, GF x 2 and Fargo x 3, Mandan x 1 essentially based on attendance. I don't think that's keeping anyone in the state who wants to leave unfortunately. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Johnny Five said: I don't think that's keeping anyone in the state who wants to leave unfortunately. Someone who wants to leave is leaving. Quote
sioux rube Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Johnny Five said: So AA hockey would be Minot, Bismarck x 3, WF x 2, GF x 2 and Fargo x 3, Mandan x 1 essentially based on attendance. I don't think that's keeping anyone in the state who wants to leave unfortunately. That would suck for Jamestown Quote
Johnny Five Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 1 hour ago, sioux rube said: That would suck for Jamestown Yeah I think we all know it will never happen. Quote
Speez Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 Too entrenched in high school hockey like MN to see any other way too work it out. Quote
sioux rube Posted August 29, 2023 Posted August 29, 2023 20 hours ago, Johnny Five said: Yeah I think we all know it will never happen. I know it will never happen. What will continue to happen is the state champ will be from the East for the foreseeable future Quote
Frozen4sioux Posted August 29, 2023 Posted August 29, 2023 On 8/28/2023 at 11:25 AM, Johnny Five said: So AA hockey would be Minot, Bismarck x 3, WF x 2, GF x 2 and Fargo x 3, Mandan x 1 essentially based on attendance. I don't think that's keeping anyone in the state who wants to leave unfortunately. Shoot for 2 leagues of 12 teams each. AA - 12 Team GFRR. GFC. FNorth. FS/S. FDavies. WF. WFSH. Century. Legacy. BHS. Minot. Mandan. A - 8 teams to start. Jamestown. Williston. Dickinson. Hazen-Beulah. Bottineau. Devils Lake. Grafton. May-Port. New teams coming Minot North WF - Horace Club teams that could join: Watford City? Langdon? Wahpeton? Crosby? NDHSAA changes needed. * Fully allow JR games pre and post season as MN does *End punishment for returning to school after a year of AAA/Academies/Jrs. *Allow up to 38 games per school year. Up to 3 weekends of tournaments/showcases (Up to 4 games each) - 12 Games Play each team in league 2 times -22 Games Tournaments 3 (potentially 4 games) AA Tourney: 7-10 play in to 1st round winners go to 1st round... losers of AA play loser relegation game. 1st round at home of higher seed. Remaining 4 play at State Tourney. A: Tourney. 7-10 play in. 1st round at higher seed host 2nd round at higher seed host. Top 2 play at State Tourney for right to advance into AA league if they so chose. Boom. But really.... still not going to keep someone here if the WANT to go. Quote
Wilbur Posted August 30, 2023 Posted August 30, 2023 20 hours ago, Frozen4sioux said: Shoot for 2 leagues of 12 teams each. AA - 12 Team GFRR. GFC. FNorth. FS/S. FDavies. WF. WFSH. Century. Legacy. BHS. Minot. Mandan. A - 8 teams to start. Jamestown. Williston. Dickinson. Hazen-Beulah. Bottineau. Devils Lake. Grafton. May-Port. New teams coming Minot North WF - Horace Club teams that could join: Watford City? Langdon? Wahpeton? Crosby? NDHSAA changes needed. * Fully allow JR games pre and post season as MN does *End punishment for returning to school after a year of AAA/Academies/Jrs. *Allow up to 38 games per school year. Up to 3 weekends of tournaments/showcases (Up to 4 games each) - 12 Games Play each team in league 2 times -22 Games Tournaments 3 (potentially 4 games) AA Tourney: 7-10 play in to 1st round winners go to 1st round... losers of AA play loser relegation game. 1st round at home of higher seed. Remaining 4 play at State Tourney. A: Tourney. 7-10 play in. 1st round at higher seed host 2nd round at higher seed host. Top 2 play at State Tourney for right to advance into AA league if they so chose. Boom. But really.... still not going to keep someone here if the WANT to go. A lot of good ideas. I think the state dropping the penalty for kids coming back could help. I know of 3 or 4 kids in the past few years that would have come back if they didn't have to play a year on the JV. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted August 30, 2023 Posted August 30, 2023 The sit rule never made sense to me at HS level if they're coming back to the HS they left: OK, you're worried a kid went away, played tougher competition, came back, and will be better in NDHSAA play ... but by that same logic, the kids who stayed will get better by playing tougher competition (the guy who came back). That would raise the level of play in NDHSAA, wouldn't it? Quote
Walsh Hall Posted August 30, 2023 Posted August 30, 2023 It would be interesting to see if the "sit rule" would have any significant impact one way or the other. Getting rid of it would probably make some kids come back, but may also cause more to leave in the first place knowing if things don't work out they could come back. 3 Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted August 30, 2023 Posted August 30, 2023 3 hours ago, The Sicatoka said: The sit rule never made sense to me at HS level if they're coming back to the HS they left: OK, you're worried a kid went away, played tougher competition, came back, and will be better in NDHSAA play ... but by that same logic, the kids who stayed will get better by playing tougher competition (the guy who came back). That would raise the level of play in NDHSAA, wouldn't it? Wasn't it the stupid rules that prompted Mike Peluso to quit as Bismarck High head coach? Quote
sioux rube Posted August 31, 2023 Posted August 31, 2023 5 hours ago, Walsh Hall said: It would be interesting to see if the "sit rule" would have any significant impact one way or the other. Getting rid of it would probably make some kids come back, but may also cause more to leave in the first place knowing if things don't work out they could come back. I could easily see this happen Quote
Johnny Five Posted August 31, 2023 Posted August 31, 2023 3 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said: Wasn't it the stupid rules that prompted Mike Peluso to quit as Bismarck High head coach? I believe the main reason was the admins were difficult to work with as far as scheduling etc. But this could've been another reason. And...uh...perhaps the pipeline a little bit. 1 Quote
Johnny Five Posted August 31, 2023 Posted August 31, 2023 26 minutes ago, sioux rube said: I could easily see this happen Not sure it would work here like it does in MN. The boys across the river comeback to play for a dream shot at the State Hockey Tournament. One school, another year with the same kids you've laced them up for 10-12 years (or whatever), all hair team, section tournaments with barns filled to the brim....so much of that. ND is so much different. And then you get to the state tournament and it's a snooze fest. Although I will say the WDA tournaments the past 2 seasons have had great atmospheres...First in Bismarck and last year in Minot. Quote
Yote 53 Posted August 31, 2023 Posted August 31, 2023 It's an endless spiral. We have this problem in the Midwest League (Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas (Kansas City)). The level of play is sneaky good (seriously, it is) and I'd guess the teams would compete with the NoDak HS teams outside of the usual GF powerhouses. Evidence of that is at the youth levels we come up and play in Fargo, Moorhead, Detroit Lakes, and Fargo regularly, so I've run into many of your programs and have an idea of the level of competition. Also, understand that programs like Omaha, Des Moines, and Kansas City have 6, 7, 800 plus kids in their programs. Size matters. Issue is that every year any player that can leaves and plays Tier 1 Midgets because the Midwest League gets absolutely zero exposure. Off my oldest boy's bantam team (years ago) 5 players out of 14 on the team left for AAA programs in Omaha, Des Moines, Sioux Falls, Colorado (Roughriders), and Northstar Academy. That's a lot, and that's just one program, Des Moines, KC, and Omaha were gutted even more. If the MWL was able to keep all these kids at home and playing HS hockey the competitive level of the league would definitely increase. I've been an advocate of a before/after team (like your Team North Dakota, and Team Wisconsin) where the boys can stay home and play HS hockey while still getting that Tier 1 exposure. Seems to work for TW. You speak of the atmosphere of MN HS hockey, I can guarantee the atmosphere in NoDak, SoDak, MWL, Wisco, Illinois, Michigan, any HS hockey barn is better than the lonely Tier 1 grind where these kids travel all over the country playing in front of family that make the trip, a few locals who happen to be in the barn, and a handful of scouts...maybe. It's an expensive grind and it ends up being not even worth it for 80% of these players. Unless you have a NAHL or USHL team offering you a spot I'd recommend just staying home and playing HS hockey. Problem is that if you aren't getting offered on that level, and you believe you do have talent and you want to develop, the best way to do that and get noticed is to leave for a Tier 1 program because staying at home is not going to get you anywhere, at least in the MWL. I'm sure it's different if you play for Central or Red River or ND programs that compete on that level. At least there are some eyeballs on those teams. 2 Quote
MoSiouxFan Posted August 31, 2023 Posted August 31, 2023 21 minutes ago, Yote 53 said: It's an endless spiral. We have this problem in the Midwest League (Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas (Kansas City)). The level of play is sneaky good (seriously, it is) and I'd guess the teams would compete with the NoDak HS teams outside of the usual GF powerhouses. Evidence of that is at the youth levels we come up and play in Fargo, Moorhead, Detroit Lakes, and Fargo regularly, so I've run into many of your programs and have an idea of the level of competition. Also, understand that programs like Omaha, Des Moines, and Kansas City have 6, 7, 800 plus kids in their programs. Size matters. Issue is that every year any player that can leaves and plays Tier 1 Midgets because the Midwest League gets absolutely zero exposure. Off my oldest boy's bantam team (years ago) 5 players out of 14 on the team left for AAA programs in Omaha, Des Moines, Sioux Falls, Colorado (Roughriders), and Northstar Academy. That's a lot, and that's just one program, Des Moines, KC, and Omaha were gutted even more. If the MWL was able to keep all these kids at home and playing HS hockey the competitive level of the league would definitely increase. I've been an advocate of a before/after team (like your Team North Dakota, and Team Wisconsin) where the boys can stay home and play HS hockey while still getting that Tier 1 exposure. Seems to work for TW. You speak of the atmosphere of MN HS hockey, I can guarantee the atmosphere in NoDak, SoDak, MWL, Wisco, Illinois, Michigan, any HS hockey barn is better than the lonely Tier 1 grind where these kids travel all over the country playing in front of family that make the trip, a few locals who happen to be in the barn, and a handful of scouts...maybe. It's an expensive grind and it ends up being not even worth it for 80% of these players. Unless you have a NAHL or USHL team offering you a spot I'd recommend just staying home and playing HS hockey. Problem is that if you aren't getting offered on that level, and you believe you do have talent and you want to develop, the best way to do that and get noticed is to leave for a Tier 1 program because staying at home is not going to get you anywhere, at least in the MWL. I'm sure it's different if you play for Central or Red River or ND programs that compete on that level. At least there are some eyeballs on those teams. I'm sure you wouldn't remember, but I may have briefly struck up a conversation with you at the Red Pepper in Grand Forks 3-4 years ago; whoever it was was in Grand Forks for a youth hockey tournament. Quote
Yote 53 Posted August 31, 2023 Posted August 31, 2023 Possible. When in GF we always hit the Red Pepper. Also, on the list is Slapshot/Fat Albert's. I always try to wear some Coyote gear too because that strikes up conversations with both UND and NDSU people too. Loved coming up there for hockey, Fargo/Moorhead, GF/EGF. It's a good time. Plan on doing it all over again. I'm starting all over now with my youngest and have a 1st year Mite. We ran into some GF teams last year in March at a tournament in Marshall, MN where I got to see them play. Looked really good. We plan on going back there this season (and every season after) so maybe we'll see them again. Marshall puts on a good tournament. I read this thread and nod my head. Just know you guys are not alone with what is going on with this sport. I know guys from Wisco, Michigan, Illinois, etc. and it's happening there too. Minnesota gets hit hard too but they have such depth in the number of programs and number of players that they can weather it better than the rest of us can. 2 Quote
Johnny Five Posted September 18, 2023 Posted September 18, 2023 Sounds like Legacy is getting a combo package of Ryan Faragher and Wade Davison, both of whom were with Mario. Quote
Wilbur Posted October 4, 2023 Posted October 4, 2023 On 9/18/2023 at 5:20 PM, Johnny Five said: Sounds like Legacy is getting a combo package of Ryan Faragher and Wade Davison, both of whom were with Mario. Do you know if Marcus Butts is playing his senior year in Bismarck? Quote
Popular Post gfhockey Posted October 4, 2023 Popular Post Posted October 4, 2023 19 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Do you know if Marcus Butts is playing his senior year in Bismarck? His cousin Seymour is 2 4 Quote
Johnny Five Posted October 5, 2023 Posted October 5, 2023 14 hours ago, Wilbur said: Do you know if Marcus Butts is playing his senior year in Bismarck? Yessir he is. Quote
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