2023 National Championship Game: Quinnipiac vs. Minnesota

[Dustin]

9 minutes ago, tnt said:

I'm more of the mind that if you get me there all the time, you are going to get it done at some point.

But what if they never do?  Then what?  I think that's the point people were at with Hakstol.  You would think 7 Frozen Fours would have been enough.  Maybe Hak's number was 8 - we'll never know.  Even if 8 was the number, that seems exceedingly high, doesn't it?

[stoneySIOUX]

1 hour ago, Dustin said:

This is such a loaded question.  They got one piece of hardware; Big Ten regular season champs (I don't know if that accomplishment actually comes with a physical piece of hardware, but I assume so), and had a chance at two more pieces (Big Ten tournament champion and NCAA champion) that they didn't get.  Considering the expectations, whether the season was a success could be argued either way forever (and at ad nauseum).  If UND were in the same shoes (which they have been in very similar shoes several times), as a fan, I would say no, the season was not successful to meet my satisfaction.  But taking out emotion, the pure statistical optics show a very successful season.

Having a successful season does not make it a success. That team had one real goal, and they didn't reach it.

[siouxkid12]

2 minutes ago, farce poobah said:

Monday morning thoughts, at the start of the off season:

Wondering if Bob Motzko is the right guy to win it at Minnesota.

He's great at recruiting talent, building and developing a strong roster.   And he's won a lot of regular season titles:  5 in the last 11 seasons, which is definitely elite in the coaching ranks.

But when the NCAA's roll around, his teams lose games they really shouldn't.   Two of those at St Cloud stand out.  2016 - Ferris State at the Xcel.  2018 - Air Force at Sioux Falls.  in 2021 and 2022 they lost to very good Mankato teams, but they barely put up a fight.  0-4 and 1-5 losses aren't good enough.  Not even close.

Maybe its in-game management.  Certainly, the Gophers changed their forecheck, leading 2-0 in the middle of the second period Saturday.  After creating loads of chances? Puzzling. 

There's a pattern here, of losing NCAA playoff games, despite having better talent.  

So you're saying Motzko shouldn't have lost this game? Motzko can only coach so much and then his players have to execute and the players couldn't clearly execute once Pecknolds 1-1-3 neutral zone forecheck settled in (2nd period). Quinnipiac was relentless after the first period (which was obviously their worst). They had more shots on net and limited Minnesota's and they also won the faceoff battle (not a single Minnesota player was in double digit wins in the circle).

Also, lets look at the stats and give credit to Quinnipiac before criticizing Minnesota. Yes, Minnesota was ranked higher and had more recognition than Quinnipiac throughout the season but dive into the stats and you will see that Quinnipiac was a much better team overall. 

Faceoff win % - Quinnipiac #2 Minnesota #15

PK % - Quinnipiac #4 Minnesota #12

PP % - Quinnipiac #15 Minnesota #4

Scoring Defense - Quinnipiac #1 Minnesota #6

Scoring Margin - Quinnipiac #1 Minnesota #2

Scoring Offense - Quinnipiac #3 Minnesota #2 (they are awfully close in this category though)

Win % - Quinnipiac #1 Minnesota #3

Goalies - Quinnipiac (Perets) Winning %, GAA, Save % - #1/#2 in all those categories Minnesota (Close) #3/#4 in all those categories.

 

This loss isn't on Motzko whatsoever, this was just a very good Bobcats team.

[Dustin]

4 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Having a successful season does not make it a success. That team had one real goal, and they didn't reach it.

Agreed.

[Dustin]

1 minute ago, siouxkid12 said:

So you're saying Motzko shouldn't have lost this game? Motzko can only coach so much and then his players have to execute and the players couldn't clearly execute once Pecknolds 1-1-3 neutral zone forecheck settled in (2nd period). Quinnipiac was relentless after the first period (which was obviously their worst). They had more shots on net and limited Minnesota's and they also won the faceoff battle (not a single Minnesota player was in double digit wins in the circle).

Also, lets look at the stats and give credit to Quinnipiac before criticizing Minnesota. Yes, Minnesota was ranked higher and had more recognition than Quinnipiac throughout the season but dive into the stats and you will see that Quinnipiac was a much better team overall. 

Faceoff win % - Quinnipiac #2 Minnesota #15

PK % - Quinnipiac #4 Minnesota #12

PP % - Quinnipiac #15 Minnesota #4

Scoring Defense - Quinnipiac #1 Minnesota #6

Scoring Margin - Quinnipiac #1 Minnesota #2

Scoring Offense - Quinnipiac #3 Minnesota #2 (they are awfully close in this category though)

Win % - Quinnipiac #1 Minnesota #3

Goalies - Quinnipiac (Perets) Winning %, GAA, Save % - #1/#2 in all those categories Minnesota (Close) #3/#4 in all those categories.

 

This loss isn't on Motzko whatsoever, this was just a very good Bobcats team.

If you'd be so willing, I'd be interested in this same comparison for the 2015-16 season between Q and UND.

[The Sicatoka]

Minnesota shots in first period: 8
Minnesota shots remainder of game: 7

Yes, 15 shots.

Did Motzko have a "Berry moment" and think his team could nurse a one-goal lead home* or were they shut down by Q. If it's the latter good on Pecknold; if it's the former that's on Motzko. 

 

*To my eye "nurse" is not a good plan for that Gopher team; they are possession. They should be possessing and attacking not defending. That's their best defense. 

[Sweethockey]

15 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Watch the game again looking for shots of Motz.
His expression and demeanor down the stretch were not confidence-inspiring. 

Pecknold had the same "Pucker Factor: DIAMOND" look the whole game ... until he needed a hug. 

Agreed, tBob looked as scared as his team played. Pecknold’s group never backed down. No coasters either. MN was an offensive team and tried to play a defensive game. Don’t understand why, I put it on the coach.

[siouxkid12]

6 minutes ago, Dustin said:

If you'd be so willing, I'd be interested in this same comparison for the 2015-16 season between Q and UND.

Not going to dive too far into it but offensively Quinnipiac was #6 and ND was #7 (only by a slim margin) but the thing that separated them was UND's defense (which was ranked 2nd).

[farce poobah]

9 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

So you're saying Motzko shouldn't have lost this game? Motzko can only coach so much and then his players have to execute and the players couldn't clearly execute once Pecknolds 1-1-3 neutral zone forecheck settled in (2nd period). Quinnipiac was relentless after the first period (which was obviously their worst). They had more shots on net and limited Minnesota's and they also won the faceoff battle (not a single Minnesota player was in double digit wins in the circle).

Also, lets look at the stats and give credit to Quinnipiac before criticizing Minnesota. Yes, Minnesota was ranked higher and had more recognition than Quinnipiac throughout the season but dive into the stats and you will see that Quinnipiac was a much better team overall. 

Faceoff win % - Quinnipiac #2 Minnesota #15

PK % - Quinnipiac #4 Minnesota #12

PP % - Quinnipiac #15 Minnesota #4

Scoring Defense - Quinnipiac #1 Minnesota #6

Scoring Margin - Quinnipiac #1 Minnesota #2

Scoring Offense - Quinnipiac #3 Minnesota #2 (they are awfully close in this category though)

Win % - Quinnipiac #1 Minnesota #3

Goalies - Quinnipiac (Perets) Winning %, GAA, Save % - #1/#2 in all those categories Minnesota (Close) #3/#4 in all those categories.

 

This loss isn't on Motzko whatsoever, this was just a very good Bobcats team.

I'm saying there's a pattern here.  Of Motzko coached teams losing to teams that, on paper, they should beat.  One game does not make a pattern.

(Your stats above don't reflect that Quinnipiac played a weak schedule (#34th) compared to Minnesota (#2).  Pre-game, Minnesota was the favorite by many metrics.)

I do agree that QU is a very good team. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

2 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Minnesota shots in first period: 8
Minnesota shots remainder of game: 7

Yes, 15 shots.

Did Motzko have a "Berry moment" and think his team could nurse a one-goal lead home* or were they shut down by Q. If it's the latter good on Pecknold; if it's the former that's on Motzko. 

 

*To my eye "nurse" is not a good plan for that Gopher team; they are possession. They should be possessing and attacking not defending. That's their best defense. 

agree with most of what your saying but any coach that still plays the trap can go to hell...and i heard bucci and the drunk mention the "trap' a little...but on the flip side if remember at one point all 5 gophers behind their own blue line pretty much saying ....try to score thru this wall!

[The Sicatoka]

3 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

...and i heard bucci and the drunk mention the "trap' a little...

They did, but with an accent:  The 1-1-3 or The 1-3-1. 

The late 90's NJD could've learned from the Q's execution of it. 

[siouxkid12]

4 minutes ago, farce poobah said:

I'm saying there's a pattern here.  Of Motzko coached teams losing to teams that, on paper, they should beat.  One game does not make a pattern.

(Your stats above don't reflect that Quinnipiac played a weak schedule (#34th) compared to Minnesota (#2).  Pre-game, Minnesota was the favorite by many metrics.)

I do agree that QU is a very good team. 

I wouldn't say there is a pattern, Motzko ran into a VERY VERY good team (and every metric stated it), that happens. 

And of those "pre-game" metrics that were talked about by the analysts, how many games were actually watched by them? I sat and listened to a lot of those dweebs and I just shook my head at how uninformed they were on college hockey and the teams that were playing. 

[dustnyou]

More often than not, the team who unloads the most talent off the bus wins the game. Not this game.  The rodents clearly had the most talent. But Motzco got out coached and his players got out worked. Man I love hockey. What a great game. 

[siouxkid12]

10 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

agree with most of what your saying but any coach that still plays the trap can go to hell...and i heard bucci and the drunk mention the "trap' a little...but on the flip side if remember at one point all 5 gophers behind their own blue line pretty much saying ....try to score thru this wall!

It does make for a less entertaining game but when they goal is to win, you don't care what the fans think.

[The Sicatoka]

3 minutes ago, dustnyou said:

More often than not, the team who unloads the most talent off the bus wins the game. 

This game showed college hockey is still an upperclassman's game.
See also: Schlossman's tweet about only one first round pick in the last six years has won a title. 

Most of Q's team picked up a Championship hat and their first Social Security check on the same walk.    

[SIOUXFAN97]

6 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

It does make for a less entertaining game but when they goal is to win, you don't care what the fans think.

when the level of play looks like rec league hockey and the fans stop going...............

[Godsmack]

28 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Minnesota shots in first period: 8
Minnesota shots remainder of game: 7

Yes, 15 shots.

Did Motzko have a "Berry moment" and think his team could nurse a one-goal lead home* or were they shut down by Q. If it's the latter good on Pecknold; if it's the former that's on Motzko. 

 

*To my eye "nurse" is not a good plan for that Gopher team; they are possession. They should be possessing and attacking not defending. That's their best defense. 

Good points.

 

Reminded me of the Vegas game where after we built the 2-0 lead, we took the foot off the gas a bit until there were only a couple minutes left in the game and we desperately needed a goal. 

[The Sicatoka]

Defense is like the old LawnBoy mower my parents had: Guaranteed one-pull starting every time on that. 

Offense is like a 1970's era Briggs and Stratton four-stroke motor: It may start right away, or you may need to visit a chiropractor to work on your shoulder and elbow. 

I say if the offense is running you leave it running until you're absolutely sure (like up 3 with 5 to play sure). 

[siouxkid12]

22 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

when the level of play looks like rec league hockey and the fans stop going...............

If you're team is winning national championships, are you really going to stop going? 

You might but the average fan isn't going to stop going.

[Dustin]

24 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

This game showed college hockey is still an upperclassman's game.

Yep.  The ultimate recruits are the high-end ones that stick around for 3-4 years.  

[Kevin G]

Minny and QU were the two best teams in the country. Game went to OT. 
 

If QU was going to win, it was going to be close and low-scoring. If Minny was going to win, it was going to be 7-2. 

[Kevin G]

28 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

This game showed college hockey is still an upperclassman's game.

The two youngest teams in the nation made it to the Frozen Four. 

[The Sicatoka]

17 minutes ago, Kevin G said:

The two youngest teams in the nation made it to the Frozen Four. 

The Q roster has 11 Sr or Gr. Those are upperclassmen. They've played games and gathered experience. 

https://www.collegehockeynews.com/reports/roster/Quinnipiac/47 

[fightingsioux4life]

1 hour ago, siouxkid12 said:

So you're saying Motzko shouldn't have lost this game? Motzko can only coach so much and then his players have to execute and the players couldn't clearly execute once Pecknolds 1-1-3 neutral zone forecheck settled in (2nd period). Quinnipiac was relentless after the first period (which was obviously their worst). They had more shots on net and limited Minnesota's and they also won the faceoff battle (not a single Minnesota player was in double digit wins in the circle).

This loss isn't on Motzko whatsoever, this was just a very good Bobcats team.

No disrespect to Quinnipiac; I picked them to win the tournament. But for some reason, the Goofs got conservative after getting a two-goal lead and it backfired big time. Prevent defense prevents you from winning. It is a fact of life in the NFL and it is also a fact of life in this sport.

[SIOUXFAN97]

17 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

The Q roster has 11 Sr or Gr. Those are upperclassmen. They've played games and gathered experience. 

https://www.collegehockeynews.com/reports/roster/Quinnipiac/47 

i think he meant michigan and minnesota (frozen four)..not championship game