2022 Football Season

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, tnt said:

So, is it scheme, or just not having the talent and bulk to handle above average teams?   We have all known for years what we had to do to be competitive against those teams, especially in the Valley, but it appears there hasn’t been a ton of progress, especially on the defensive line.

It’s both, but as a rule of thumb, it starts with the players (recruiting), and ends with what the coaching does with it. “It’s not the X’s and O’s, but the Jimmys and the Joes.” WRONG. Coaching puts the average programs over the top. And gets the good programs not just wins, but championships. 
 

“Recruiting is Michigan beating Appalachian State. Coaching is Appalachian State beating Michigan.”

http://www.espn.com/college-football/hot/_/id/9395142
 

Why this time of year, every year, are numerous coaches fired and new ones hired. It’s no secret coaching, development, teaching and mentorship is what leads to wins and championships. Not just how many stars you have coming out of high school (which ND high school kids definitely don’t have). Why does UND stick with a staff that has one playoff win in 9 seasons?
 

Simple; money (lack thereof) and expectations (not high enough - hockey). 

FBS programs and top FCS programs that don’t have these issues clearly would do the obvious; get a new coaching staff.

 

Saying the coaching is not the issue, especially in this era of college football, is pure crap. It’s conservative old-timers puffing smoke and building mirrors. 
 

Get better coaches, or else the leadership and development of the impressionable young men that make up UND football won’t accomplish the top tier. 

 

[UND-FB-FAN]

One final quote from the above link to cement my point.

“Coaching is Boise State's Chris Petersen signing players the big boys overlook and winning more than 90 percent of his games. Coaching is the 17 Broncos who have played for Petersen and been drafted by NFL teams.

Coaching is Barry Alvarez building a program at Wisconsin, or Chip Kelly taking Oregon from good to great. They didn't have blue chips. They had a clear vision.

The top men in the game are as effective in recruiting as they are brilliant in coaching. Bobby Bowden led Florida State to 14 consecutive top-five finishes because he harvested the state's wellspring of talent. In the past four years, Alabama has won three BCS championships and had 13 players selected in the first round of the NFL draft. Like Bowden, Nick Saban found the talent. And like Bowden, Saban developed it.

The grapes that grow on Howell Mountain in Napa Valley make the best cabernet sauvignon in the world. But without the right winemaker, all you'd get is another bottle of Two-Buck Chuck. 

Recruiters work day and night to coax the right players to sign with their school. Only then do coaches begin their work. 

Recruits are grapes. Recruiters are farmers. Coaches are winemakers.”

Bubba may not be going anywhere (certainly not getting terminated), but he better think about either retiring or at least changing some position coaches or his defensive coordinator, because the development right now is crap and the winemaking is awful.
 

 

[shep]

2 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

The grapes that grow on Howell Mountain in Napa Valley make the best cabernet sauvignon in the world. But without the right winemaker, all you'd get is another bottle of Two-Buck Chuck. 

mmmm...Two-Buck Chuck.

[UND-FB-FAN]

6 minutes ago, shep said:

mmmm...Two-Buck Chuck.

I think there’s a lot in the greater Grand Forks region that actually prefer the ol’ Two-Buck Chuck.

Hence, here we are. 

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

9 hours ago, zonadub said:

Pretty sure he would turn down a head coaching position and the opportunity to turn the program around, aren’t you, SlowHand? Well, given UND’s lazy AD and history of inbreeding, it will never happen nywaay.

Troll talking to a troll.

[iramurphy]

4 hours ago, shep said:

The grapes that grow on Howell Mountain in Napa Valley make the best cabernet sauvignon in the world. But without the right winemaker, all you'd get is another bottle of Two-Buck Chuck. 

Charles Shaw was a 1965 West Point grad and a classmate of my oldest brother. He also received his Masters from Stanford. He spent time in France and loved wine. He got into the wine making business after living in France when he and his wife bought a vineyard and actually made good wines. His wines won a number of gold medals and were served at 3 White House dinners. Unfortunately, they didn’t sell well and they went bankrupt and his wife divorced him. He had a lot of bottles of unsold wine which he sold to another Sanford Alumnus, Joe Colom (Trader Joe).  In the last 20 yrs, Trader Joe’s has sold billions of dollars of Two Buck Chuck, none of which ended up with Shaw. Some other guy bought the rights to the name. 

Sometimes we need to look a lot deeper into a story/issue to get the facts. Turns out that in this case, the winemaker was pretty damn good. 
 

A couple of you have referred to me in your venting after the game. Don’t be foolish enough to assume you know my opinions on the program, coaches, etc. They are my opinions which I base on my experience as a player, position coach, recruiter, and high school and college official. None of my opinions are more valid than yours.  However it may give me and others with similar experiences a perspective that differs from yours.

I have never seen anything come of the constant criticism or call for change that for some starts in the pre-season. It’s reasonable to state opinions of the shortcomings of the program including coaches but not every thread and every post. Go back and count up how many times this season we keep complaining about the same thing that won’t change in the middle of the year. It isn’t that some of us don’t agree it’s that the same complaining in every thread is like kicking a dead horse. 

The season is finished so now is the time for teeth gnashing, hair pulling and pontificating about what went wrong, what has to change etc.

Few of the chronic complainers indicate any depth of thought. Everyone can figure out we want bigger, stronger, faster, quicker, smarter guys. All coaches know that and want the same. I can’t find our guys 40 times so I wonder how some seem to know how fast/slow we are. I look at height and weight listed for our players and compare with our opponents and I’m not sure I see a big difference. So to me it’s much more than that. It’s technique, quickness, foot speed, discipline, work ethic and personal responsibility and drive.

Some assume the “culture” is an issue. I wouldn’t know anymore than what kids and parents say but that’s anecdotal. Where are you learning it’s a cultural issue?
Someone decided we should go after Olson, a position coach at NDSU. What evidence is there that he is ready to be a head coach?  To me, the obvious target on that staff would be Randy Hedberg but doubt he would be interested. I’m pretty sure there isn’t going to be a buyout or forced change so I will let all you experts debate that one. Regardless our debates won’t be part of those decisions. I do feel Bubba has put together a strong staff. I believe they do a good job recruiting despite our present disadvantages but having said that we need to keep doing better.

Because I don’t hire and fire I look to myself as to what I can do to get the program to the top of the FCS and positioned for a move to FBS if that becomes what is best for the program. I will focus on the positives of attending UND, the positive culture of UND football that goes back to players from the 1960’s. (Read your most recent Alumni review), the progress (though slow) of the program and what it can and will be. In addition I will continue to support the program and Phase2 as best I can by attending games, activities and financial support. 

I can’t do financially what some do and I can’t attend everything. I can’t hire and fire coaches so although I’m disappointed in how this season played out and I can also second guess decisions, I have learned that isn’t what I do best. That part I will leave up to you and others, and if that is important to folks now is the time. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by iramurphy
Missed word I was asked for more paragraphs

[CMSioux]

1 hour ago, iramurphy said:

Charles Shaw was a 1965 West Point grad and a classmate of my oldest brother. He also received his Masters from Stanford. He spent time in France and loved wine. He got into the wine making business after living in France when he and his wife bought a vineyard and actually made good wines. His wines won a number of gold medals and were served at 3 White House dinners. Unfortunately, they didn’t sell well and they went bankrupt and his wife divorced him. He had a lot of bottles of unsold wine which he sold to another Sanford Alumnus, Joe Colom (Trader Joe).  In the last 20 yrs, Trader Joe’s has sold billions of dollars of Two Buck Chuck, none of which ended up with Shaw. Some other guy bought the rights to the name. 
Sometimes we need to look a lot deeper into a story/issue to get the facts. Turns out that in this case, the winemaker was pretty damn good. 
 

A couple of you have referred to me in your venting after the game. Don’t be foolish enough to assume you know my opinions on the program, coaches, etc. They are my opinions which I base on my experience as a player, position coach, recruiter, and high school and college official. None of my opinions are more valid than yours.  However it may give me and others with similar experiences a perspective that differs from yours. I have never seen anything come of the constant criticism or call for change that for some starts in the pre-season. It’s reasonable to state opinions of the shortcomings of the program including coaches but not every thread and every post. Go back and count up how many times this season we keep complaining about the same thing that won’t change in the middle of the year. It isn’t that some of us don’t agree it’s that the same complaining in every thread is like kicking a dead horse. 
The season is finished so now is the time for teeth gnashing, hair pulling and pontificating about what went wrong, what has to change etc. Few of the chronic complainers indicate any depth of thought. Everyone can figure out we want bigger, stronger, faster, quicker, smarter guys. All coaches know that and want the same. I can’t find our guys 40 times so I wonder how some seem to know how fast/slow we are. I look at height and weight listed for our players and compare with our opponents and I’m not sure I see a big difference. So to me it’s much more than that. It’s technique, quickness, foot speed, discipline, work ethic and personal responsibility and drive. Some assume the “culture” is an issue. I wouldn’t know anymore than what kids and parents say but that’s anecdotal. Where are you learning it’s a cultural issue. Someone decided we should go after Olson, a position coach at NDSU. What evidence is there that he is ready to be a head coach?  To me, the obvious target on that staff would be Randy Hedberg but doubt he would be interested. I’m pretty sure there isn’t going to be a buyout or forced change so I will let all you experts debate that one. Regardless our debates won’t be part of those decisions. I do feel Bubba has put together a strong staff. I believe they do a good job recruiting despite our present disadvantages but having said that we need to keep doing better. Because I don’t hire and fire I look to myself as to what I can do to get the program to the top of the FCS and positioned for a move to FBS if that becomes what is best for the program. I will focus on the positives of attending UND, the positive culture of UND football that goes back to players from the 1960’s. (Read your most recent Alumni review), the progress (though slow) of the program and what it can and will be. In addition I will continue to support the program and Phase2 as best I can by attending games, activities and financial support. 
I can’t do financially what some do and I can’t attend everything. I can’t hire and fire coaches so although I’m disappointed in how this season played out and I can also second guess decisions, I have learned that isn’t what I do best. That part I will leave up to you and others, and if that is important to folks now is the time. 

Love everything about this - would love even more with a couple of paragraph breaks . 

 

[iramurphy]

16 minutes ago, CMSioux said:

Love everything about this - would love even more with a couple of paragraph breaks . 

 

Good point. Done.

[The Sicatoka]

Olson of the NDSU staff? No. If you want to mind<bleep> everyone … hire Craig Bohl’s son off the Wyoming staff. He’s considered an up and comer. 

https://gowyo.com/staff-directory/aaron-bohl/138 
https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/247Sports-30Under30-2022-list-top-young-coaches-in-college-football-190685546/#190685546_1 

[Sioux>Bison]

On 11/27/2022 at 8:23 AM, Dustin said:

New DC. Even if someone is promoted internally. Need to send a message that defense was the letdown of the team. Hit the transfer portal hard in a hopefully one-time effort to shore up the defense for next season. Hit the recruiting trail hard for better defensive players.  It’d be a real shame  next year if we have one of the best (if not best) QBs in program history but can’t give him a worthwhile defense when he’s not on the field. 

Last year’s defense was great. Fire a guy for one season? Personnel not to blame?

[Dustin]

14 minutes ago, Sioux&gt;Bison said:

Last year’s defense was great. Fire a guy for one season? Personnel not to blame?

I must have a short memory - was last year's defense great?  As Frasier Crane would say, I'm listening...

[JohnboyND7]

14 hours ago, BarnWinterSportsEngelstad said:

Troll talking to a troll.

Why did you highlight the inbreeding comment lol.  UND's football coaching has been very incestuous.

Bubba - 15 years as an assistant at UND.  Another six or seven with Lennon at SIU?

Mussman - 8 years as an assistant at UND before getting the head job.

Lennon - Played at UND, 8 years assisting at UND, then head coach.

Roger Thomas was the last HC at UND without spending a long period of time at UND as an assistant.  You can argue whether its good or bad, you can't really argue its been pretty heavy on the inbreeding.

[geaux_sioux]

34 minutes ago, Sioux&gt;Bison said:

Last year’s defense was great. Fire a guy for one season? Personnel not to blame?

Last years defense was decent, not even close to great. 20.27 ppg will never be considered great. Matter of fact we haven’t averaged under 20 ppg in D1. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

17 hours ago, iramurphy said:

Regardless our debates won’t be part of those decisions. I do feel Bubba has put together a strong staff. I believe they do a good job recruiting despite our present disadvantages but having said that we need to keep doing better.

Credit to your initial anecdote providing some context to the winemaking theory. That was nice and insightful. There can be more to the story, no doubt, and perhaps Bubba is a championship-caliber coach who just has got a bad break at Duluth and now UND, without the appropriate support. But let’s be honest; that’s wishful thinking and unlikely. 
 

Your opinion is valued, just like everyone’s is. However, interestingly, your smoke and mirror posts continue to cover up a glowing issue. “Our debates won’t be part of those decisions”. So, you’re saying that our opinions (this forum likely has some of the most loyal fans/alumni on it, but we’re perhaps a bit too outspoken. Well, after all, that’s the point of this forum!) won’t be valued. Perhaps the suit coats at UND should value our opinions. The University of North Dakota is a public institution. Albeit I admit it has to occur via different channels than an online forum, obviously. There are several well-educated folks that support UND that have *chosen* to not pursue athletic department leadership, not the other way around. 
 

We understand that your opinion is that Bubba has put together a strong staff and Bubba is a strong coach. We understand that he recruits Detroit Lakes and you are satisfied with the recruiting efforts.

I respectfully disagree that he is a “strong coach”. He is an average division I coach. The programs at NDSU and SDSU are currently superior. Change will need to be made for UND to supplant these programs. Again, smoke and mirrors to move the conversation away from coaching is a fine tactic, and your opinion is valued, but I don’t agree with it. From an odds perspective, you are right: UND won’t terminate Bubba. It’s not because it’s wrong to terminate him, but rather that UND’s athletic department is financially conservative and does not want to be a national player in football. They have hockey for that. 
 

We all will carry on. You have accepted that, and support what you can. That is fine. Others, on this forum, still cling to a pipe dream that one day UND can win another national championship in football. I do as well, and for the time being, will support UND in that quest. But, my opinion is that level of accomplishment will require a change in current football leadership. 

Again, carry on. Happy Holidays. 

[fightingsioux4life]

3 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Credit to your initial anecdote providing some context to the winemaking theory. That was nice and insightful. There can be more to the story, no doubt, and perhaps Bubba is a championship-caliber coach who just has got a bad break at Duluth and now UND, without the appropriate support. But let’s be honest; that’s wishful thinking and unlikely. 
 

Your opinion is valued, just like everyone’s is. However, interestingly, your smoke and mirror posts continue to cover up a glowing issue. “Our debates won’t be part of those decisions”. So, you’re saying that our opinions (this forum likely has some of the most loyal fans/alumni on it, but we’re, perhaps we’re a bit too outspoken. Well, after all, that’s the point of this forum!) won’t be valued. Perhaps the suit coats at UND should value our opinions. The University of North Dakota is a public institution. Also, there are several well-educated folks that support UND that have *chosen* to not pursue athletic department leadership, not the other way around. 
 

We understand that your opinion is that Bubba has put together a strong staff and Bubba is a strong coach. We understand that he recruits Detroit Lakes and you are satisfied with the recruiting efforts.

I respectfully disagree that he is a “strong coach”. He is an average division I coach. The programs at NDSU and SDSU are currently superior. Change will need to be made for UND to supplant these programs. Again, smoke and mirrors to move the conversation away from coaching is a fine tactic, and your opinion is valued, but I don’t agree with it. From an odds perspective, you are right: UND won’t terminate Bubba. It’s not because it’s wrong to terminate him, but rather that UND’s athletic department is financially conservative and does not want to be a national player in football. They have hockey for that. 
 

We all will carry on. You have accepted that, and support what you can. That is fine. Others, on this forum, still cling to a pipe dream that one day UND can win another national championship in football. I do as well, and for the time being, will support UND in that quest. But, my opinion is that level of accomplishment will require a change in current football leadership. 

Again, carry on. Happy Holidays. 

Well said.

[The Sicatoka]

In the DII days, NDSU was NDSU, but UND owned SDSU in football.
Frankly SDSU went DI with NDSU more for BB than FB. 

The "head start" excuse grows thinner by the day (literally).

So why can't UND re-establish itself as superior to SDSU in football?
Are we not giving football "the same" (relative to DII days) internal priority? 

[geaux_sioux]

Just to add some perspective on our defense. We have had at best a good defense 4 times since 2012. In years '16 '19 '20 and '21 we averaged at or under 22.0 ppg. The best being last year at 20.27ppg. That's modest success defensively but it's enough to win games if your offense is worth its salt. Since 2012 we have averaged 26.7 ppg. In that same time frame the average ppg for national champion defenses has been 14.1 ppg. JMU is the outlier in that group allowing over 20 ppg at 21.2, however, they scored 46.67 ppg to offset their decent at best defense in 2016. Basically, if we want to make deep playoff runs we need to score on average over 30ppg and give up under 20ppg. We've had plenty of offenses hit that mark and all of 0 defenses. 0, zip, zilch, nada. All but two of those seasons we've had a head coach who is a former defensive coordinator. It's not good enough. Never was, never will be. It's always about the defense in the playoffs and our playoff record in D1 is appropriately atrocious when you look at the stats. We need to get better on d and stay that way.

[geaux_sioux]

21 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

In the DII days, NDSU was NDSU, but UND owned SDSU in football.
Frankly SDSU went DI with NDSU more for BB than FB. 

The "head start" excuse grows thinner by the day (literally).

So why can't UND re-establish itself as superior to SDSU in football?
Are we not giving football "the same" (relative to DII days) internal priority? 

Malcom Gladwell would say their success is more a product of timing than of ability.

[jdub27]

On 11/27/2022 at 9:30 AM, zonadub said:

Pretty sure he would turn down a head coaching position and the opportunity to turn the program around, aren’t you, SlowHand? Well, given UND’s lazy AD and history of inbreeding, it will never happen anyway.

What position would you look to give a guy who's been a grad assistant for 2 years and spent the rest of his career as an LB coach? Are we talking DC or HC? 
 

43 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

I respectfully disagree that he is a “strong coach”. He is an average division I coach. The programs at NDSU and SDSU are currently superior.

How do you think Stig changed from an average coach for a few decades to whatever you'd consider him now?
Do you really think Entz is a great head coach? Or was he born on 3rd base with the program he took over?

[Sioux>Bison]

45 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

In the DII days, NDSU was NDSU, but UND owned SDSU in football.
Frankly SDSU went DI with NDSU more for BB than FB. 

The "head start" excuse grows thinner by the day (literally).

So why can't UND re-establish itself as superior to SDSU in football?
Are we not giving football "the same" (relative to DII days) internal priority? 

With all SDSU’s success they still haven’t won a national title. If Bubba had that roster he would have the same success. Is Bubba the reason we don’t have that roster? Maybe so but maybe not the main reason. I see no issue with making a big change once Bubba contract is over. 

[Sioux>Bison]

27 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

What position would you look to give a guy who's been a grad assistant for 2 years and spent the rest of his career as an LB coach? Are we talking DC or HC? 
 

How do you think Stig changed from an average coach for a few decades to whatever you'd consider him now?
Do you really think Entz is a great head coach? Or was he born on 3rd base with the program he took over?

Say what!?!)?!? Stig was an average coach for decades and still kept his job????? Let’s hear the negative Nancy posters spin that one!

[Midwestern Hawk]

13 minutes ago, Sioux&gt;Bison said:

Say what!?!)?!? Stig was an average coach for decades and still kept his job????? Let’s hear the negative Nancy posters spin that one!

You need to look closer at his results and the context.

[The Sicatoka]

Most of Stig's tenure SDSU was a BB school. Only recently did SDSU put any focus on FB. 

[Sioux>Bison]

1 minute ago, The Sicatoka said:

Most of Stig's tenure SDSU was a BB school. Only recently did SDSU put any focus on FB. 

And UND is finally putting in some focus on football finally too so where is the difference?

and SDSU still has no national title 

[SooToo]

35 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Just to add some perspective on our defense. We have had at best a good defense 4 times since 2012. In years '16 '19 '20 and '21 we averaged at or under 22.0 ppg. The best being last year at 20.27ppg. That's modest success defensively but it's enough to win games if your offense is worth its salt. Since 2012 we have averaged 26.7 ppg. In that same time frame the average ppg for national champion defenses has been 14.1 ppg. JMU is the outlier in that group allowing over 20 ppg at 21.2, however, they scored 46.67 ppg to offset their decent at best defense in 2016. Basically, if we want to make deep playoff runs we need to score on average over 30ppg and give up under 20ppg. We've had plenty of offenses hit that mark and all of 0 defenses. 0, zip, zilch, nada. All but two of those seasons we've had a head coach who is a former defensive coordinator. It's not good enough. Never was, never will be. It's always about the defense in the playoffs and our playoff record in D1 is appropriately atrocious when you look at the stats. We need to get better on d and stay that way.

Maybe stats need to be interpreted in the context of your opponents. I can't comment on the strength of other conferences, but I think most would agree the Big Sky and the Valley are among the strongest. You noted UND did relatively well defensively 2019-21. (I can't find the stats from spring 2021 season.) In 2021, UND ranked 4th in scoring defense in the Valley at 20.3 ppg (7th vs run but 3rd vs pass), but we were 8th in scoring offense. This year, we were 4th in scoring offense at 30.9 ppg but 9th in scoring defense, giving up 30.8 ppg. Same coaches, same schemes.

Certainly room for improvement, and recruiting definitely open to criticism, but  it's difficult to fault defensive scheme or coaching decisions with such big swings in performance year-to-year. Looks more like a personnel issue: What/who changed for UND from 2021 to 2022?

For those who question the effectiveness of 3-4, interesting that Montana topped the Big Sky defensively this year at 19 ppg and was 2nd in 2021 at 16.3 ppg running a very similar defense. (3-3-5, actually).