Illinois State @ UND 11/13/21

[UND1983]

10 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

But are we OK continually punting from inside our opponents 40??

When the opposing offense is as bad as YSU and ISU yes.  Not vs. other teams no didn't like it

[geaux_sioux]

1 hour ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

In 2019, with Ketteringham, UND scored a TD on 71% of redzone trips (overall scored on 33/35 trips). This season, with Schuster, UND only scoring a TD on trips in redzone 52% of the time (overall scored on only 31/46 trips). Crazy how once a narrative starts, people just roll with it and don't form an opinion for themselves.

If Ketteringham was so tough on drives, supposedly, what does that make Schuster? 

What about last spring……… with Schuster?

[Sioux94]

1 hour ago, geaux_sioux said:

What about last spring……… with Schuster?

Exactly, Freshman Tommy with a good OL 80% > Senior Kett 71%.  Sophomore Tommy with average at best OL gets us into the Red Zone 46 times .vs Senior Kett 35 times.  Yes this fall once we got in the Red Zone it has been complete crap, but I don't think that is on Tommy (Other than that 1 pick).  No ability to run up the middle and TO's is reason for crappy red zone numbers.  I don't recall Kett being bad in the Red Zone however.  Although yes Kett did love to run backwards and take 10 yard sacks at the worst time, which absolutely killed drives.  When you lose 10 yards and loss of a down, that is a drive killer.  In Kett's defense though, he had Rudy calling plays, I'm sure he would have gotten us in the Red Zone more without an OC from 1986. 

I hate to say on the bright side, but getting into the Red Zone 46 times seems pretty damn good.  If we get back to a more normal Red Zone conversion we will be pretty  good.  Easier said than done, but with better OL and hopefully better kicker coming I think we will.  

 

2019: 35 red zone attempts, 33 scores, 25 touchdowns. 71% touchdown conversion. 

2020: 25 red zone attempts, 22 scores, 20 touchdowns. 80% touchdown conversion 

2021: 46 red zone attempts, 31 scores, 24 touchdowns. 52% touchdown conversion

 

 

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, geaux_sioux said:

What about last spring……… with Schuster?

Very good in 2021 spring; team had 80% red zone TD rate. Fell apart against good teams on road, NDSU and JMU, though.
 

What happened to Schuster and offense this season? That is real concern. Regression is a worry (and apparently reality); team returned enough talent that they should have improved. Now with offensive line losing major talent (NFL talent - Waletzko), 2022 will be interesting. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

7 minutes ago, Sioux94 said:

Exactly, Freshman Tommy with a good OL 80% > Senior Kett 71%.  Sophomore Tommy with average at best OL gets us into the Red Zone 46 times .vs Senior Kett 35 times.  Yes this fall once we got in the Red Zone it has been complete crap, but I don't think that is on Tommy (Other than that 1 pick).  No ability to run up the middle and TO's is reason for crappy red zone numbers.  I don't recall Kett being bad in the Red Zone however.  Although yes Kett did love to run backwards and take 10 yard sacks at the worst time, which absolutely killed drives.  When you lose 10 yards and loss of a down, that is a drive killer.  In Kett's defense though, he had Rudy calling plays, I'm sure he would have gotten us in the Red Zone more without an OC from 1986. 

I hate to say on the bright side, but getting into the Red Zone 46 times seems pretty damn good.  If we get back to a more normal Red Zone conversion we will be pretty  good.  Easier said than done, but with better OL and hopefully better kicker coming I think we will.  

 

2019: 35 red zone attempts, 33 scores, 25 touchdowns. 71% touchdown conversion. 

2020: 25 red zone attempts, 22 scores, 20 touchdowns. 80% touchdown conversion 

2021: 46 red zone attempts, 31 scores, 24 touchdowns. 52% touchdown conversion

 

 

Freund was OC in 2019 with Ketteringham. 

[geaux_sioux]

16 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Very good in 2021 spring; team had 80% red zone TD rate. Fell apart against good teams on road, NDSU and JMU, though.
 

What happened to Schuster and offense this season? That is real concern. Regression is a worry (and apparently reality); team returned enough talent that they should have improved. Now with offensive line losing major talent (NFL talent - Waletzko), 2022 will be interesting. 

It’s the offensive line. Clearly. 

[Sioux94]

16 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Freund was OC in 2019 with Ketteringham. 

Thanks for the clarification, couldn't remember for sure.  Well Kett as a senior should have been better than Tommy as a Freshman then you'd think.  

The red zone regression this fall definitely is a concern.  Losing Waletzko next fall will certainly not help.  Hopefully having the rest of the OL get better will more than offset that, but ya won't know until next September.  I would certainly hope we don't have 7 red zone TO's next year though.  Sounds like the new kickers should be good. We have to at least get FG's if we don't punch it in for a TD. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

42 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

It’s the offensive line. Clearly. 

Against teams with equal or better personnel, the offensive line will not be good enough to compensate for a QB who won't run and struggles throwing deep.  You guys will destroy me for it, but a DC will find game planning vs Q(or any QB who can/will run), even if he struggles throwing sometimes, more difficult than for Tommy.  There is a reason Danny had Q throw the game winner vs ISU and not Tommy. 

 

As for the spring season, the offense was clearly struggling towards the end of the season when playing teams with equal or better personnel.  

 

[Nodak78]

One thing is for certain.  If it is cloudy tomorrow or Sunny. According to Midwestern Hawk and UND-FB-Fan it will damn sure be Tommy's fault.

[jdub27]

35 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

There is a reason Danny had Q throw the game winner vs ISU and not Tommy. 

Because we have literally spent all season setting up that play-fake?
The odds of Quincy coming in on short yardage have to be about equal to the odds of Tommy taking off and running.

One thing that seems to be ignored is Tommy's ability to avoid sacks. UND has taken 5 for 40 yards this year. That's tied with Kennesaw St for 1st. There are only 8 teams with single digit sacks allowed and 6 allowing less than 1/game. As has been mentioned, I don't think anyone would say OL play has been significantly above average this fall, though they definitely deserve some credit on this. Plenty to be critical but when an offense needs high completion percentages and has to avoid negative plays to work, the current starter fits that bill. He absolutely needs to get better at knowing when to tuck the ball and take off but that's a lot more teachable than some of the other deficincies people are ignoring with the other options

[SiouxBoys]

54 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Against teams with equal or better personnel, the offensive line will not be good enough to compensate for a QB who won't run and struggles throwing deep.  You guys will destroy me for it, but a DC will find game planning vs Q(or any QB who can/will run), even if he struggles throwing sometimes, more difficult than for Tommy.  There is a reason Danny had Q throw the game winner vs ISU and not Tommy. 

 

As for the spring season, the offense was clearly struggling towards the end of the season when playing teams with equal or better personnel.  

 

Because Quincy can make a short throw better than Tommy? Are you drunk?

[Oxbow6]

9 minutes ago, SiouxBoys said:

Because Quincy can make a short throw better than Tommy? Are you drunk?

[UND-FB-FAN]

27 minutes ago, Nodak78 said:

One thing is for certain.  If it is cloudy tomorrow or Sunny. According to Midwestern Hawk and UND-FB-Fan it will damn sure be Tommy's fault.

“Check down Tommy” ain’t the second coming, just accept it and move on. Thanks. Go UND. Hope he does well but he’s not immune to criticism. 

[Teeder11]

2 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

“Check down Tommy” ain’t the second coming, just accept it and move on. Thanks. Go UND

No one ever said he was. Just the best ready option we have right now. Accept it. move on. Thanks. Go UND.

[UND-FB-FAN]

5 minutes ago, Teeder11 said:

No one ever said he was. Just the best ready option we have right now. Accept it. move on. Thanks. Go UND.

I have accepted “this” since Schuster’s spring season. As have nearly all UND fans, just some more so than others. I disagree with some on their degree of support. There apparently is no QB on this roster *currently* better than Schuster, and I never once have made the statement that Schuster should be benched now. With that said, my simple point is UND needs to do better at that position to get to the top. I hope 2022 has some new light. Accept it. Move on. Pay attention. Don’t contort the truth. Thanks. Go UND.

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 hour ago, SiouxBoys said:

Because Quincy can make a short throw better than Tommy? Are you drunk?

No, Danny put Quincy in the game so the RB would be wide open, with Tommy in he would not be open, or do you think Danny replaced Tommy on that play just for kicks?

[UND1983]

46 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

I have accepted “this” since Schuster’s spring season. As have nearly all UND fans, just some more so than others. I disagree with some on their degree of support. There apparently is no QB on this roster *currently* better than Schuster, and I never once have made the statement that Schuster should be benched now. With that said, my simple point is UND needs to do better at that position to get to the top. I hope 2022 has some new light. Accept it. Move on. Pay attention. Don’t contort the truth. Thanks. Go UND.

Who is Tommy checking down to all the time?  

[SiouxFan100]

No doubt if we had a better quarterback we would have a better team 

no doubt if we had a better offensive line we would have a better team

no doubt if we had better linebackers we would have a better team

no doubt if we had better coaches we would have a better team 

no doubt if we had better kickers we would have a better team

etc etc etc

[Midwestern Hawk]

I want UND to get to that next step as badly as anyone.  I thought at the beginning of the fall season we were extremely close and the results have largely proven that as true.  Overall the defense has been good enough to win the MVFC and be a high seed in the playoffs, the offense has not, and the game management has not.  Next fall IMO will be much tougher to achieve that with so many holes to fill on defense.   Maybe the offense will be good enough to carry the team next fall or the defense will not experience any fall off or be even better.   I just think we had a window to make a run and we blew it, I felt the same in 2016 after the Richmond game.

[geaux_sioux]

2 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Against teams with equal or better personnel, the offensive line will not be good enough to compensate for a QB who won't run and struggles throwing deep.  You guys will destroy me for it, but a DC will find game planning vs Q(or any QB who can/will run), even if he struggles throwing sometimes, more difficult than for Tommy.  There is a reason Danny had Q throw the game winner vs ISU and not Tommy. 

 

As for the spring season, the offense was clearly struggling towards the end of the season when playing teams with equal or better personnel.  

 

Struggling to separate in the secondary against good teams. Always happens with our lack of speed at wr. I’d use the SDSU game as evidence that our OL was very good last year.

[Midwestern Hawk]

5 minutes ago, geaux_sioux said:

Struggling to separate in the secondary against good teams. Always happens with our lack of speed at wr. I’d use the SDSU game as evidence that our OL was very good last year.

Totally agree, we are missing speed at WR.  Looking back at the spring, if we played SDSU in the playoffs and they had their QB healthy and they had film on us, there is very little chance we win.  

[geaux_sioux]

Just now, Midwestern Hawk said:

Totally agree, we are missing speed at WR.  Looking back at the spring, if we played SDSU in the playoffs and they had their QB healthy and they had film on us, there is very little chance we win.  

So if everything was different?

[SiouxFan100]

18 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

I want UND to get to that next step as badly as anyone.  I thought at the beginning of the fall season we were extremely close and the results have largely proven that as true.  Overall the defense has been good enough to win the MVFC and be a high seed in the playoffs, the offense has not, and the game management has not.  Next fall IMO will be much tougher to achieve that with so many holes to fill on defense.   Maybe the offense will be good enough to carry the team next fall or the defense will not experience any fall off or be even better.   I just think we had a window to make a run and we blew it, I felt the same in 2016 after the Richmond game.

Love ya Midwest 

we all are frustrated at times 

Yes, seems so close at times but so far at times

 

[shep]

1 hour ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

I want UND to get to that next step as badly as anyone.  I thought at the beginning of the fall season we were extremely close and the results have largely proven that as true.  Overall the defense has been good enough to win the MVFC and be a high seed in the playoffs, the offense has not, and the game management has not.  Next fall IMO will be much tougher to achieve that with so many holes to fill on defense.   Maybe the offense will be good enough to carry the team next fall or the defense will not experience any fall off or be even better.   I just think we had a window to make a run and we blew it, I felt the same in 2016 after the Richmond game.

What window? I know we lose some good Seniors, but I really have high hopes for many of the Freshmen and RSF's. I think the OLine (If Lotysz is healthy) and other young guys continue to develop will be better next year. Yes the Big W will be hard to replace but a year of weights and experience will help the others.

The D will be better too. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

4 minutes ago, shep said:

What window? I know we lose some good Seniors, but I really have high hopes for many of the Freshmen and RSF's. I think the OLine (If Lotysz is healthy) and other young guys continue to develop will be better next year. Yes the Big W will be hard to replace but a year of weights and experience will help the others.

The D will be better too. 

I just feel like this was a window to make the leap.  Otis, Waletzko and the defense.  Otis is currently engaged, but that could change at any moment.  Waletzko will be difficult to replace and lots of defenders(Canady, Shannon, Sequin, Holm, Turner, Haas, Galvin, and maybe Larson and Morrison.  Not sure on the last two.) to replace.  The good thing is Bubba and co have done a good job recruiting and the base and depth of the team is much better than it was after the 2016 season.