Cratter Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Mussman also coached in one of the better FCS football conferences. Brian Jones is coaching in one of the worst Basketball conferences. I believe we are currently the 27th ranked bball conference. Typically outside of Weber and Montana, there are not good basketball schools in the Big Sky. This year is an exception as Weber is down and EWU is up.Lets not get too crazy. Theres no FCS in college basketball. Both Jones and Mussman played the same teams. Quote
bincitysioux Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 For the supporters of a "whacking", I think this is where your case loses some steam. Not a huge difference between .500 and one game under .500 in my eyes. Also, Mussman did actually have some decent wins under his belt against ranked opponents Cal Poly, SUU, and USD. Jones' most impressive win has been against NDSU. Quote
Cratter Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 If Mussman finished second in the Big Sky he would have been in the FCS playoffs. Quote
ArtVandalay Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Because Jones 17-17 record is soooo much better. Just not gonna get into that again. Go back 40 pages for that I guess. I'm just saying, objectively speaking, if I am an AD in charge of evaluating whether or not to whack a coach, a rebuilding year after a second place year would give me pause for letting someone go. And it should. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 I feel confident in saying, with a new coaching staff for football, the focus is now on MBB. I'd say the coaching staff has burned up any margin they may have had. Quote
UND1983 Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Just not gonna get into that again. Go back 40 pages for that I guess. I'm just saying, objectively speaking, if I am an AD in charge of evaluating whether or not to whack a coach, a rebuilding year after a second place year would give me pause for letting someone go. And it should. And about 30 pages ago we confirmed that this was no "rebuilding" job. You rebuild with youth, players you can build around for 4-5 years. A coach doesn't rebuild with 9 transfers. Jones did not want to rebuild, he wanted a quick fix to stem the tide, hence all the transfers. His high school recruiting has been poor in the past 3 years. Quote
UND-FB-FAN Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 And about 30 pages ago we confirmed that this was no "rebuilding" job. You rebuild with youth, players you can build around for 4-5 years. A coach doesn't rebuild with 9 transfers. Jones did not want to rebuild, he wanted a quick fix to stem the tide, hence all the transfers. His high school recruiting has been poor in the past 3 years. Absolutely. To Jones, this was not a rebuilding season, that is until they started losing. ArtVandalay is doing the same thing; claiming a "free" season is a nice way to justify keeping a poor coach. Quote
ArtVandalay Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 And about 30 pages ago we confirmed that this was no "rebuilding" job. You rebuild with youth, players you can build around for 4-5 years. A coach doesn't rebuild with 9 transfers. Jones did not want to rebuild, he wanted a quick fix to stem the tide, hence all the transfers. His high school recruiting has been poor in the past 3 years. Hooker is hs recruit. Shanks is essentially a hs recruit. Cashman is a hs recruit. Crandall is a hs recruit. Seales is a hs recruit. McDermott is a hs recruit. Collins is a hs recruit. Programs "gamble" sometimes on transfers. It can be a short term solution. Hell, the Jacks have 2 transfers in their starting lineup. It doesn't always work out but to classify jones as nothing but a transfer guy just isn't true. Quote
UND-FB-FAN Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Hooker is hs recruit. Shanks is essentially a hs recruit. Cashman is a hs recruit. Crandall is a hs recruit. Seales is a hs recruit. McDermott is a hs recruit. Collins is a hs recruit. Programs "gamble" sometimes on transfers. It can be a short term solution. Hell, the Jacks have 2 transfers in their starting lineup. It doesn't always work out but to classify jones as nothing but a transfer guy just isn't true. Half of the young players you just mentioned are not even playing. Rather, a number of DI/JUCO transfers and a 6th year senior got a bunch of playing time. Hard to characterize that as a rebuilding season with a bunch of young players right out of HS. Quote
ArtVandalay Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Absolutely. To Jones, this was not a rebuilding season, that is until they started losing. ArtVandalay is doing the same thing; claiming a "free" season is a nice way to justify keeping a poor coach. i wouldn't have expected any other response from you Frank. Quote
Siouxperfan7 Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 And about 30 pages ago we confirmed that this was no "rebuilding" job. You rebuild with youth, players you can build around for 4-5 years. A coach doesn't rebuild with 9 transfers. Jones did not want to rebuild, he wanted a quick fix to stem the tide, hence all the transfers. His high school recruiting has been poor in the past 3 years. ^^^^^^^THIS Unfortunately this is one of the main reasons Jones needs to go. Instead of developing younger players, he rode those Seniors for 4 years. So the result of losing those guys? Bringing in tons of transfers and starting freshmen and expecting instant success. The problem is Jones does not know how to develop players. The Senior class from last year was one of the best classes in UND history. Yet they were a consistent .500 team all 4 years. You can get all the talent in the world, bt if the team can't play together, than they are not going to be successfull. And that responsibility falls on on coaching. Quote
UND-FB-FAN Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 i wouldn't have expected any other response from you Frank. Your minority opinion is not easily supported, for good reason. I have no problem agreeing with others if they align with my own opinions. Lastly, the random titles are a bit unnecessary. Quote
niouxsiouxfan Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 And about 30 pages ago we confirmed that this was no "rebuilding" job. You rebuild with youth, players you can build around for 4-5 years. A coach doesn't rebuild with 9 transfers. Jones did not want to rebuild, he wanted a quick fix to stem the tide, hence all the transfers. His high school recruiting has been poor in the past 3 years. Putting some consideration into last years team that graduated... Is it possible that some of the kids that transferred in were on UND's recruiting list. I know Carson Shanks was. I believe Estan Tyler was as well, but could check that for verification. Quentin Hooker was a great get, and I think this years Freshman class is going to prove to be superior (including Shanks). And next yea'rs class looks like it could be great as well. Some of the JUCOS that transferred in were on major colleges lists as well, as Nash was. Most of the time, JUCO kids are there for grades or bigger opportunities. And it doesnt always work out for them, or schools. I dont have an answer as to why Jones didnt recruit HS talent to fill in after last years group, other than maybe he did and didnt get them. So, then he got some JUCO kids. I still say this was a rebuilding year, as many people in the know have. I will side with those guys, as they generally are more informed than I am. He has young talent now ready for next year, after a bad down year. That is what a rebuilding year is. Quote
UND1983 Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Hooker is hs recruit. Shanks is essentially a hs recruit. Cashman is a hs recruit. Crandall is a hs recruit. Seales is a hs recruit. McDermott is a hs recruit. Collins is a hs recruit. Programs "gamble" sometimes on transfers. It can be a short term solution. Hell, the Jacks have 2 transfers in their starting lineup. It doesn't always work out but to classify jones as nothing but a transfer guy just isn't true. So in 3 years he produced 4 "HS" recruits: 1 home run, one that doesn't play yet, one transfer, and one that will never be more than a role player (Cashman). But now he is supposed to get 3 MORE years to fix his mistakes in recruiting, after being the coach for 9 years? I thought recruiting was supposed to get better after the transition and nickname issues were gone. Quote
UND1983 Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Putting some consideration into last years team that graduated... Is it possible that some of the kids that transferred in were on UND's recruiting list. I know Carson Shanks was. I believe Estan Tyler was as well, but could check that for verification. Quentin Hooker was a great get, and I think this years Freshman class is going to prove to be superior (including Shanks). And next yea'rs class looks like it could be great as well. Some of the JUCOS that transferred in were on major colleges lists as well, as Nash was. Most of the time, JUCO kids are there for grades or bigger opportunities. And it doesnt always work out for them, or schools. I dont have an answer as to why Jones didnt recruit HS talent to fill in after last years group, other than maybe he did and didnt get them. So, then he got some JUCO kids. I still say this was a rebuilding year, as many people in the know have. I will side with those guys, as they generally are more informed than I am. He has young talent now ready for next year, after a bad down year. That is what a rebuilding year is. NDSU lost more than UND did (4 seniors that scored over 1,000 points) and have a brand new coach. Their record = 21-9. Losing players is not an excuse. The problem is what you did in recruiting while those players were becoming juniors and seniors. Who is the "young talent READY" for next year? Quote
UND92,96 Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 I think most people's fear is that Jones is retained, improves enough next year to approach .500, and then stays at that level for another year or two, just like during Huff and company's career. Yes, next year's talent level should be a bit better, but I think it comes down to this--if you're Faison, how confident are you that Jones is at least close to being as capable as the average opposing coach? Sadly, after watching him for nine years, I'm not confident at all. Quote
Siouxperfan7 Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 NDSU lost more than UND did (4 seniors that scored over 1,000 points) and have a brand new coach. Their record = 21-9. Losing players is not an excuse. The problem is what you did in recruiting while those players were becoming juniors and seniors. Who is the "young talent READY" for next year? You could look all around the country for programs who lost a significant amout of starters and still did well the next year. But it's even more obvious that it happens when the team 70 miles down the road does it!! Unfortuanately I think BF will give Jones another year to "prove" himself. In my opinion, he had his chance with the Senior class from last year. And is experiencing the hangover of not developing players as indicated by this years results. Quote
sioux24/7 Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 I think most people's fear is that Jones is retained, improves enough next year to approach .500, and then stays at that level for another year or two, just like during Huff and company's career. Yes, next year's talent level should be a bit better, but I think it comes down to this--if you're Faison, how confident are you that Jones is at least close to being as capable as the average opposing coach? Sadly, after watching him for nine years, I'm not confident at all. This is exactly my fear. I think we are going to be stuck in a rut. Quote
niouxsiouxfan Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 This is exactly my fear. I think we are going to be stuck in a rut. I understand this. Although, I am fairly certain no changes are going to be made this year. So, I look forward to watching the players we have next year. I also think, that despite what people believe, that this team will be greatly improved next year. Maybe, I'm "drinking the kool-aid", but I prefer to think positive. I truly believe that next years players will make an impressive run. If not, I would be willing to bet this thread wont be needed after the end of the season. 1 Quote
darell1976 Posted March 9, 2015 Author Posted March 9, 2015 Hooker is hs recruit. Shanks is essentially a hs recruit. Cashman is a hs recruit. Crandall is a hs recruit. Seales is a hs recruit. McDermott is a hs recruit. Collins is a hs recruit. Programs "gamble" sometimes on transfers. It can be a short term solution. Hell, the Jacks have 2 transfers in their starting lineup. It doesn't always work out but to classify jones as nothing but a transfer guy just isn't true. The Jacks have won 22 games so far with their 2 transfers, and yet Jones couldn't even win 10 with his transfers? Last year the Jacks won 19 and before that was 25. Let me know when Jones hits 20. Quote
Siouxphan27 Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 I think most people's fear is that Jones is retained, improves enough next year to approach .500, and then stays at that level for another year or two, just like during Huff and company's career. Yes, next year's talent level should be a bit better, but I think it comes down to this--if you're Faison, how confident are you that Jones is at least close to being as capable as the average opposing coach? Sadly, after watching him for nine years, I'm not confident at all. This is exactly the fear. of course the team will be better next year..... how could it get any worse?!?!?! So does Faison then look at the "improvement", and extend him again? This is the problem with the wait and see attitude. It's a never ending cycle of mediocrity. It's why the big time programs with enough money to buyout contracts never allow it to get to this point. We all know what he will do with this alleged talent coming in = nothing. They will go as far as their raw talent will take them. I was shocked when Jones was given his current contract. It was a ridiculous move on Faison's part, as I can't imagine there was a single school in the country seeking to steal Jones away from us at the time. And right now, you couldn't give him away for a pair of Adidas shoes. Quote
Oxbow6 Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 The Jacks have won 22 games so far with their 2 transfers, and yet Jones couldn't even win 10 with his transfers? Last year the Jacks won 19 and before that was 25. Let me know when Jones hits 20. Hit 20...losses...done...twice Quote
darell1976 Posted March 9, 2015 Author Posted March 9, 2015 Hit 20...losses...done...twice Ouch!! Quote
ArtVandalay Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Your minority opinion is not easily supported, for good reason. I have no problem agreeing with others if they align with my own opinions. Lastly, the random titles are a bit unnecessary. Well, it's good to hear you admit to the bias. Quote
SWSiouxMN Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Say Jones stays.... odds on yet another restructuring of the coaching staff? Quote
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