Coach Jones?

[darell1976]

Again, no one is excited about or defending these results, but you keep on moving the goal posts further and further away from your original argument until you find something.  These results are already taken into account on your 20 win season goal.  I'm more concerned about how they do away from home at the conference tournament. 

There is more to basketball than just the conference tournament, especially now that you have play-in games for the tournament. Texas-Southern won the SWAC with a 19-14 record only to lose to Cal Poly, a team with a losing record just to crowned 16th seed.

[sioux2013]

So many of you live in some sort of dream world.  Yes, I would like to see UND win 20 games every year but it's just not going to happen with whoever you have coach this team.  UND constantly plays one of the most difficult out of conference schedules every year for money and most all of them are on the road and even with a very good team road wins are hard to come by no matter who you are.  We are not Weber nor Montana yet and even if  we become that power, which I hope we can, look at Weber this year and Montana last year we are still going to have down years.  Our first 2 years in the Big Sky are the best in history of any new comer to this league.  Don't know about you but that is impressive and the future looks extremely bright over the next several years and hopefully we have established ourselves like Weber and Montana better players will come to us and more consistently.  My expectations are competing for the conference championship on a consistant basis as I know we will not be a 20 win team every year.

[the green team]

How about Denver?  I don't understand how the hockey relationship can't be used for getting together for a basketball matchup.

This has been brought up before, but Denver really will have no interest in playing a non-conference basketball series against us, as they already have to budget a significant portion of travel dollars in coming this direction for their conference games.  They have plenty of opportunities to schedule D1's for both money and  games closer to home...Air Force, Colorado State, Colorado, Wyoming, Northern Colorado etc...   This allows them to keep costs in check, and at the same time when they do travel, they have a tendency to play in areas they like to recruit which is out west.

[darell1976]

So many of you live in some sort of dream world.  Yes, I would like to see UND win 20 games every year but it's just not going to happen with whoever you have coach this team.  UND constantly plays one of the most difficult out of conference schedules every year for money and most all of them are on the road and even with a very good team road wins are hard to come by no matter who you are.  We are not Weber nor Montana yet and even if  we become that power, which I hope we can, look at Weber this year and Montana last year we are still going to have down years.  Our first 2 years in the Big Sky are the best in history of any new comer to this league.  Don't know about you but that is impressive and the future looks extremely bright over the next several years and hopefully we have established ourselves like Weber and Montana better players will come to us and more consistently.  My expectations are competing for the conference championship on a consistant basis as I know we will not be a 20 win team every year.

 

BSC teams that has 20 wins since 2012: Montana, Weber State (acutally had 30 wins),  Eastern Washington has 19 as of now, Sac State has 16. The SL has had 4 different teams hit 20+ since 2012.  UND has won 16 and 17 games last 2 seasons, but if Jones can't figure out how to win OOC games especially on the road UND will never get to 20. 

[Siouxperfan7]

Remember when we lost to the worst team in the league at home?  That is why there is frustration with this team and the head coach.  Sure you can say they are righ where they are predicted to be (9th), but a loss like the one we saw on Saturday is one that can turn the fanbase.  Much like the back to back thumpings in football we had in 2013 from the Montana schools.  So while I still think Jones is a good coach and a great recruiter, the low attendance, frustration by fans, and losing the majority of home games (especially winneable ones) may be too much to overcome for Jones.

 

That being said, I think Jones will still be here next year.  Deffinitely agree that it will be his make or break year.  Finish in the Top 3 of the Big Sky and make it to the Tournament Championship game, then sign him on.  Have another season like this year, and it would be pretty hard to defend extending his contract.

[jdub27]

There is more to basketball than just the conference tournament, especially now that you have play-in games for the tournament. Texas-Southern won the SWAC with a 19-14 record only to lose to Cal Poly, a team with a losing record just to crowned 16th seed.

Seeding has a lot to do with RPI, which isn't all about wins and losses.  Playing high ranked teams at their place and losing can end up being better than winning at home against a lower ranked team.  Take a look at the RPI rankings and records sometime.  Hofstra and St. Francis are both at 17 wins and will probably hit 20.  Their RPI's are 182 and 178 because their SOS is 302 and 321.  Florida is sitting at 12-13 but have an RPI of 79 because their SOS is 7.

 

Texas Southern had an RPI of 250 last year and Cal Poly was at 184.  RPI said that Cal Poly was the better team even though Texas-Southern was just below your magical 20 win threshold and Cal Poly was 11-19 going into that game.

 

Again, you keep shifting your argument.  The top goal of this team should always be to finish in the top 3 of the conference and work to win the tournament from there.  Your 20 win season takes the rest of the OOC schedule into play, whether the games are at home or on the road.  But again, that won't necessarily reflect in a better seed.  Because the Big Sky plays a 20 game conference schedule, it is tough to find a good balance between games you need against high-majors to help your RPI out and getting OOC games that are "winnable".  Again, UND has lost way more "winnable" games then they should have the last few years and no one is defending that, but you also need to keep some of this in perspective.

[bincitysioux]

With regard to the non-conference schedule, we seem to play the xDSU's every year, with both being on the same rotation, so that they are either both at home or both on the road in any given year. Ideally, it would be nice to have the opposite rotation with USD and UNO, so that every year we know there will be at least two non-conference home games against division I opponents.

I find it strange that we have not played USD since they left the Great West. At one point I heard a rumor that our AD was boycotting them because of the way thy handled their Big Sky invite. But since then, we have played WBB, VB, softball and other sports, so that must have not been true. Jones puts the basketball schedule together and SDSU has been on it throughout the transition, sometimes twice a season. It seems strange that this game doesn't take place anymore since USD was somewhat of a partner in the DI move. My ideal rotation with the former NCC schools would be NDSU and UNO opposite of SDSU and USD. I would also like to see a home and home with Drake every year and a standing 2 for 1 with UNI.

[UND92,96]

I find it strange that we have not played USD since they left the Great West. At one point I heard a rumor that our AD was boycotting them because of the way thy handled their Big Sky invite. But since then, we have played WBB, VB, softball and other sports, so that must have not been true. Jones puts the basketball schedule together and SDSU has been on it throughout the transition, sometimes twice a season. It seems strange that this game doesn't take place anymore since USD was somewhat of a partner in the DI move. My ideal rotation with the former NCC schools would be NDSU and UNO opposite of SDSU and USD. I would also like to see a home and home with Drake every year and a standing 2 for 1 with UNI.

 

When you also add in the Craig Smith factor--a UND grad and grew up 50 miles from Grand Forks--it will be extremely odd if USD isn't on the schedule within the next year or two.

[fightingsioux4life]

So many of you live in some sort of dream world.  Yes, I would like to see UND win 20 games every year but it's just not going to happen with whoever you have coach this team.  UND constantly plays one of the most difficult out of conference schedules every year for money and most all of them are on the road and even with a very good team road wins are hard to come by no matter who you are.  We are not Weber nor Montana yet and even if  we become that power, which I hope we can, look at Weber this year and Montana last year we are still going to have down years.  Our first 2 years in the Big Sky are the best in history of any new comer to this league.  Don't know about you but that is impressive and the future looks extremely bright over the next several years and hopefully we have established ourselves like Weber and Montana better players will come to us and more consistently.  My expectations are competing for the conference championship on a consistant basis as I know we will not be a 20 win team every year.

More "Can't, Can't, Can't" type of thinking.  As Micky said in Rocky II "Their ain't no can't!".  We need to stop thinking "Can't" and start thinking "Can", "Should" and "Must".

[jdub27]

I find it strange that we have not played USD since they left the Great West. At one point I heard a rumor that our AD was boycotting them because of the way thy handled their Big Sky invite. But since then, we have played WBB, VB, softball and other sports, so that must have not been true. Jones puts the basketball schedule together and SDSU has been on it throughout the transition, sometimes twice a season. It seems strange that this game doesn't take place anymore since USD was somewhat of a partner in the DI move. My ideal rotation with the former NCC schools would be NDSU and UNO opposite of SDSU and USD. I would also like to see a home and home with Drake every year and a standing 2 for 1 with UNI.

 

I think the Dakota school's plus Omaha and a 2-1 with UNI would be an excellent OOC base schedule. Basically gives you 4 or 5 games to work with, 2 of them likely to be sub D-1 schools at home and then 3 high major money games.  Puts you at 4 OOC home games for sure.  Not as sold on Drake every year, but workable, it could be substituted out for other home/homes or a little more wiggle room to do a in-season tournament.

[bincitysioux]

I think the Dakota school's plus Omaha and a 2-1 with UNI would be an excellent OOC base schedule. Basically gives you 4 or 5 games to work with, 2 of them likely to be sub D-1 schools at home and then 3 high major money games.  Puts you at 4 OOC home games for sure.  Not as sold on Drake every year, but workable, it could be substituted out for other home/homes or a little more wiggle room to do a in-season tournament.

 

I just like Drake due to geography. UNI, Drake, UW-Green Bay, and UW-Milwaukee are all semi-regional DI schools that could be interested in a semi-regular rotation with us.

 

Someone mentioned Denver as well, and on the surface seems like it makes sense.  I heard (and even made myself) the argument that due to our hockey ties that our transition was going to be far better scheduling wise than the other former NCC schools.  None of that ever really came to fruition, so apparently our status in hockey doesn't carry as much sway in the regard as some thought, including myself.

[jdub27]

I just like Drake due to geography. UNI, Drake, UW-Green Bay, and UW-Milwaukee are all semi-regional DI schools that could be interested in a semi-regular rotation with us.

 

Someone mentioned Denver as well, and on the surface seems like it makes sense.  I heard (and even made myself) the argument that due to our hockey ties that our transition was going to be far better scheduling wise than the other former NCC schools.  None of that ever really came to fruition, so apparently our status in hockey doesn't carry as much sway in the regard as some thought, including myself.

 

I agree with the semi-regional comments.

 

Also think the green team's comments were pretty spot on regarding Denver.  They can get better and or cheaper (travel-wise) home/home series so that is what they stick with.  UND definitely isn't going to pay them enough to come up here for a 1 game deal either.  Would probably only make sense for them if they were able to do it during the conference season when Denver was in the Dakotas for one of their road trips.

[UND-FB-FAN]

I don't support all the defending and apologies.

As a supporter (if you really are and are not just posing as one), wouldn't you want to see UND try and be a top team? If Jones isn't getting it done, and so far he definitely hasn't, then why would you want to keep him around? Contemporary college athletics is pretty well defined, as least with the most popular sports: you get the job done or you get someone else. People underestimate the importance of collegiate coaching; unlike high school or professionals, college coaches not only teach the intangibles but they also recruit the tangibles (the players). Whether a team is successful or not successful, it in some way or another comes back to the coach.

I think most can agree on that, so the next thing is to then agree that UND basketball has not been successful. If one thinks going .500 and getting blown out to other low majors is okay, then it's an expectation/ambition thing. Far too many skeptics around UND or at least on this site.

[sioux2013]

I don't support all the defending and apologies.

As a supporter (if you really are and are not just posing as one), wouldn't you want to see UND try and be a top team? If Jones isn't getting it done, and so far he definitely hasn't, then why would you want to keep him around? Contemporary college athletics is pretty well defined, as least with the most popular sports: you get the job done or you get someone else. People underestimate the importance of collegiate coaching; unlike high school or professionals, college coaches not only teach the intangibles but they also recruit the tangibles (the players). Whether a team is successful or not successful, it in some way or another comes back to the coach.

I think most can agree on that, so the next thing is to then agree that UND basketball has not been successful. If one thinks going .500 and getting blown out to other low majors is okay, then it's an expectation/ambition thing. Far too many skeptics around UND or at least on this site.

I disagree on that UND has not been successful.  Regardless of the .500 record the last 4 years prior they have won 2 championships and been more successful than any new Big Sky team in history and again without Brekke, Schuler and Webb in last years championship we could have been dancing.  Most may not like the .500 record but as far as doing well in the conference championships the last 4 years I'd say we've been fairly successful and exceeded expectations.  This years team is fun to watch as they work their *sses off on defense but just don't have the experience to get over the hump.  As many agree the next couple of years will be the defining moments for Jones and I do agree with that.

[Oxbow6]

Today's society is full of apologists, enablers, and those that wouldn't know accountability if it slapped them in the face.

GB cut #86 Bostick yesterday for one horrible play/miscue. Extend Jones for 9 years of mediocrity.............

[jdub27]

The problem is, there is about 100 different ways to define "getting it done". 

 

OOC and overall record?  Very disappointing and not a single person has claimed it is acceptable. 

Conference regular season and tournament?  Pretty encouraging the last two years.  Highest finish for a newcomer to the league ever. Finished 3rd and 2nd in his first two years in the standings and conference tournament.  This year, not so much but that isn't a total shock with what was lost.  The GWC was what it was, but Jones did win the conference tournament twice. 

Recruiting? Talent level appears to be on the rise. For those that care, he has beat NDSU in the two most recent head to head battles that I'm aware of on players both teams wanted (Hooker and Shanks)

Off the court stuff?  Haven't heard much of anything about them getting in trouble.  Had one or two academic eligibility issues and team GPA could probably be higher but players aren't transferring out left and right either.

 

That's just a handful of the subjective ways it can be measured.  People can complain all they want, but it barring some major off the court issues, I don't see a scenario where he isn't the head coach next year.  That being said it is likely his make or break year to show whether or not he'll coach the final year on his contract or see any kind of extension.

[MafiaMan]

Today's society is full of apologists, enablers, and those that wouldn't know accountability if it slapped them in the face.

GB cut #86 Bostick yesterday for one horrible play/miscue. Extend Jones for 9 years of mediocrity.............

 

Settle down there, Fire-the-coach6, I believe UND is currently in 10th place in the conference, which is only one spot shy of meeting pre-season expectations! 

[ArtVandalay]

I don't support all the defending and apologies.

As a supporter (if you really are and are not just posing as one), wouldn't you want to see UND try and be a top team? If Jones isn't getting it done, and so far he definitely hasn't, then why would you want to keep him around? Contemporary college athletics is pretty well defined, as least with the most popular sports: you get the job done or you get someone else. People underestimate the importance of collegiate coaching; unlike high school or professionals, college coaches not only teach the intangibles but they also recruit the tangibles (the players). Whether a team is successful or not successful, it in some way or another comes back to the coach.

I think most can agree on that, so the next thing is to then agree that UND basketball has not been successful. If one thinks going .500 and getting blown out to other low majors is okay, then it's an expectation/ambition thing. Far too many skeptics around UND or at least on this site.

Bias and perspective. It is the only truly irrefutable fact on this board. For one reason or another we are biased. It is the fuel here on this thread. Facts can be shred any direction we like.

[GeauxSioux]

I think it is apparent that Weber is having a tough year, but at least they have this...

 

There are a few differences:

We do run plays different than high screen and roll
Our coach isn't the worst coach in the Big Sky

 

This came from the Weber State's forum after they played UND and comparing their issues with UND.

FWIW.

[UND Fan]

Bias and perspective. It is the only truly irrefutable fact on this board. F or one reason or another we are biased. It is the fuel here on this thread. Facts can be shred any direction we like.

 

You are obviously quite supportive of Jones and, although I disagree, I respect your opinion.  I am curious - do you think he is a good coach or do you simply think he deserves more time to prove that he is (or isn't) a good coach? 

[UND1983]

I think it is apparent that Weber is having a tough year, but at least they have this...

 

There are a few differences:

We do run plays different than high screen and roll

Our coach isn't the worst coach in the Big Sky

 

This came from the Weber State's forum after they played UND and comparing their issues with UND.

FWIW.

 

LOLOLOLOLOL.  Our coach is getting made fun of by other fan bases now.  Cannot make it up.  

[SWSiouxMN]

LOLOLOLOLOL. Our coach is getting made fun of by other fan bases now. Cannot make it up.

Weber has been doing that since we got into the conf. Nothing new here

[ArtVandalay]

You are obviously quite supportive of Jones and, although I disagree, I respect your opinion. I am curious - do you think he is a good coach or do you simply think he deserves more time to prove that he is (or isn't) a good coach?

I think it is too soon to draw a conclusion. I know I'll get blown up by that statement but I look at what Nagy went through, performance in conference, challenges in recruiting as a transition school. Relative success is encouraging to me. Recruiting is picking up comparably. Think he deserves a chance.

[hoopster]

Weber St fan on UND...

Re: North Dakota

by catscratched » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:32 am

The Cats have begun their journey to the tundra up north. The trip involves an airplane, a bus ride, a ferry, and a donkey ride on the final leg to Grand Forks. We get there about 5 minutes before game time and hope that the kids are aggravated enough about the trek to go out and kick some 'no name' butt.

Sound like the kind of place where recruits are begging to play

catscratched Big Sky 2nd Team   Posts: 112 Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:44 pm I am a fan of: Weber State Big Sky school I dislike most:Idaho

[UND1983]

 

Weber St fan on UND...

Re: North Dakota

by catscratched » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:32 am

The Cats have begun their journey to the tundra up north. The trip involves an airplane, a bus ride, a ferry, and a donkey ride on the final leg to Grand Forks. We get there about 5 minutes before game time and hope that the kids are aggravated enough about the trek to go out and kick some 'no name' butt.

Sound like the kind of place where recruits are begging to play

catscratched Big Sky 2nd Team   Posts: 112 Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:44 pm I am a fan of: Weber State Big Sky school I dislike most:Idaho

 

 

You are constantly bringing up bad traits of the UND BB job (weather, recruiting, video board).  Makes me wonder: why does Jones stay here if it is such an uphill battle in so many phases?  He has nine year experience, why doesn't he move on to a better job with better weather and facilities.  He would be able to use his full arsenal of coaching abilities once he wasn't held back by the albatross that is UND basketball.  

 

Let's admit it, coaching at UND is a thankless job.